Render Distance-Spawning Loop

[Geronimo]

Based upon my following observations of todays experiment I would appreciate any opinions or data that could lead to further understanding of this mysterious spawning taking place at rendering distance on our maps.

Today while in a lookout tower in Yukon, I observed this spawning loop which has been discussed in another thread taking place and decided to see how i could affect it.

1.

I tried to observe the individual Bison involved within this loop to see if they were always the same ones coming in and out of it. there seems to be 6 animals, one level 1, three level 2, and one level 3, that keep respawning and than walking out of render distance.

they are spawning in at around 430 yards and disappearing at 460 yards consistently.

2.

From past experience Im pretty sure that these can be killed if you manage the shot before they disappear, and that if you do hit them and they still flee beyond render distance, they can still die out of sight and be laying there.

So I chose the level 3 to start with for the ease of identification.

4.

Once I began to take shots at these animals one female (aggroed) on me and came all the way to my tower position and I did NOT fire any shots at her from up there. I waited until she lost aggro-and left- assuming she would return to the spawning loop origin. I did not know whether she would remain in the map now, or if she would return to looping. I expected she would have been taken out of the loop once engaged with me at the tower, but this was not the case. I actually spotted her again entering in and of the spawning loop, undeniably identified by her active color tracks showing below my tower each time i tagged her in the binos or the scope.

I observed the tracks below the tower and got a screenshot of them to show the different colors between active and inactive. And upon tagging a female at the origin spot when i had supposed she had enough time to return there, I did note the active track color in those tracks below the tower proving it was hers. I follow this up by actually following that trail all the way back and forth to the tower for evidence sake that a spawn looping animal CAN be engaged and WILL return to looping once it disengages.


5.

I decided to try to kill all six animals to see if any more would enter into the loop. And when i was ready to leave the tower and begin the investigation I did spot blood spills directly below the tower from her trail that showed only 25 percent health. And I had not fired any shots down from the tower during this time, at anything.

6.

Before I headed to the kill site I decided to follow the female trail that was left below the tower, the one that had aggroed on me and came all the way over after me. I followed it all the way to the kill site and back again and recorded it in screenshots of the trail on the map if needed. It clearly shows the trail leading from the kill zone to the tower and back again.

7.

The following is curious. as i said when she returned to the kill zone she did begin to respawn in and out of the map again. I observed her doing this while intermittently tagging her, checking her trail beneath the tower for matching active color, than tagging another animal, watching the trail change color to inactive color, and than tagging her again to watch it change back to active. and she was the only one of the group that came over so there was no mistaking the exact individual involved.


https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198208804272/screenshot/2047498313980757995/

Screenshot of the map trail having disappeared after she was harvested

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198208804272/screenshot/2047498313980764572/


8.

now it was time to go to the kill zone at the spawning loop origin, and first of all see if i could follow her trail from the tower to her corpse. And this I was able to, but its curious that since she did begin to loop in and out again, that she did not show a disconnected trail at some point. i could not find this and i scoured the area looking for it, there seemed to be only one trail, which can be seen in the map screenshot showing all is fully connected. I followed it right to her corpse and harvested her.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198208804272/screenshot/2047498313980745602/

9.

after all was done I harvested exactly 6 animals all of the same levels and gender which had been previously noted. And when these were all dead the spawning seemed to come to stop. I watched the area closely for a good ten minutes, showing screenshots with time passage, and saw no re-occurrence of the spawning loop.


457 yard shot

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198208804272/screenshot/2047498313980930721/


https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198208804272/screenshot/2047498313980938650/


harvested 600 yards from the tower and 200 yards further than render range

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198208804272/screenshot/2047498313980946525/



So it would seem that these individuals were the only ones associated with the loop, and once all dead-removed- the loop ends.

I would like discussion about what this might imply with regard to spawning, and same individuals being tracked by the AI, given that recent wounded animal testing suggests that the AI does not track individual animals after doing a restart. does this info add anything to that discussion in any way....

Note- I have quite a few screenshots available, if needed for any verification. screens of distances involved, specific individual trails, shots from the kill zone back to the tower and vice versa....etc

Added Note- Here is a screenshot showing one of these six bison being 660 yards away from the tower, and quite a few yards from where it unrendered from the map.

[Findus]

Thanks for your test!

I think we should clarify that spawning in or out only refers to becoming visible or invisible in this case, these are not new animals or first time arrivals for this session, so they will have their own identifier assigned already and keep it throughout the session, whether they get caught in a loop or not.

I'd say this is probably more a location based problem rather than an animal specific one or at least a combination. Meaning, as long as you kept your position and the animals tried to go the same route, they would continue to be beamed back into render distance. Maybe it's even the whole radius around you in certain conditions (this would be disproved by other animals being able to leave render distance permanently).

Like said in the other thread, we can only guess, but one problem might be that animals generally (at least in my experience) tend to spawn out farther away than they spawn in. If the game gets confused somehow on where the animal is supposed to be exactly, or loses track and erroneously decides it should be visible again, it might be that this has to occur closer than the spawning out point.
If, on the other hand, this is just a symptom of the game messing up the transition between the simulation within and without render distance, then loops of animals coming in might exist as well, we are just not seeing them.

As for tracks, I often see plenty of tracks in areas where such loops have occurred. More than the animals coming through once would cause. After a while, older tracks might be overwritten/erased.

[Geronimo]

No Findus,

these animals are at 430 yards when spawning in to these spots, well within render distance, but i see what youre saying though. It would be different if they were spawning in a brand new individual each time , but as this proves with the female that came to the tower distinguishing herself, they are the same individuals spawning each time.

im curious what this says about an animal spawning onto the map and being able to spawn off of it again, i suppose itys not really leaving the game or session, its just going out of sight, so than the real questions is why are they doing the loop and not just spawning onto the map at beginning of game and than staying on the map. why are they suddenly appearing at 430 yards, all in the same spot, at the same time, and tghan going out of distance.

it must be because when they spawn it is time for them to be at a certaion zone which just ahppens to always be in the direction away from out position.

soooo, than why does eevry spawning loop that appears like this just happen to have animals whos scheduled zone is in our opposite direction, once in awhule it should happen that animals appear like this and run towards us because the zone is our way this time.

but it doesnt. ive seen many of these and they always have animals running out of render distance.

[Findus]

I'm not sure it that's well within render distance for spawning in, assuming there is actually a discrepancy between spawning in and out. Granted I might be wrong about that.

Edit:
Here is something I found online: "By default, animals spawn distance is 384 meters and despawn distance is 416 meters." 384 meters would be 419 yards. I'd say that's within margin of error.


"Why are they suddenly appearing at 430 yards, all in the same spot, at the same time, and tghan going out of distance."
In my experience they don't spawn there for the first time, they make their way out there and get caught in a loop. They also aren't always appearing all at the same time, often they appear with some fixed delay between each other or in smaller groups (smaller than a herd).


"soooo, than why does eevry spawning loop that appears like this just happen to have animals whos scheduled zone is in our opposite direction, once in awhule it should happen that animals appear like this and run towards us because the zone is our way this time."
Like said, potentially those loops happen the other way round as well, we are just not seeing them as the spawn in distance is closer than the spawn out distance. But it's also possible that only leaving render distance triggers the loop.

[Geronimo]

C'mon, where's the Beef??

I'm hoping that the data promoters of late can use these observations to further their efforts at discerning fact from fiction.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Findus:

I'm not sure it that's well within render distance for spawning in, assuming there is actually a discrepancy between spawning in and out. Granted I might be wrong about that.

Edit:
Here is something I found online: "By default, animals spawn distance is 384 meters and despawn distance is 416 meters." 384 meters would be 419 yards. I'd say that's within margin of error.


"Why are they suddenly appearing at 430 yards, all in the same spot, at the same time, and tghan going out of distance."
In my experience they don't spawn there for the first time, they make their way out there and get caught in a loop. They also aren't always appearing all at the same time, often they appear with some fixed delay between each other or in smaller groups (smaller than a herd).


"soooo, than why does eevry spawning loop that appears like this just happen to have animals whos scheduled zone is in our opposite direction, once in awhule it should happen that animals appear like this and run towards us because the zone is our way this time."
Like said, potentially those loops happen the other way round as well, we are just not seeing them as the spawn in distance is closer than the spawn out distance. But it's also possible that only leaving render distance triggers the loop.

Haha you caught me thinking on the fly Findus-. Was just asking the pertinent questions as I considered what was taking place.

Seemed to boil down to a matter of why an animal already dispersed into our map would have to spawn again.

I'm not sure what you've said in this post though. You seem to be suggesting that these ones in my test were not spawning into the map but had simply made their way to that location and than simply walked beyond render distance.

Correct me if I misunderstood.

Anyway, I can post a couple screenshots of the area where this particular event occurred, which will clearly show these 6 animals actually appearing from our of thin air and than departing.

And the location is actually right on the shoreline of a pond which limits any possible hidden approaches.

I took alot of screens so I hope I have some that will convincingly depict one of these bison appearing out of the blue.

Strangely enough, later today I encountered another curious event that I can't understand.

I was trying to position myself 430 yards from a bison drinking at a lakeshore; totally different area on same map, Medved.

I wanted to get a screenshot of the points showing the distance just before losing it to render distance, say around 457 yards, and from the obvious same angle, and time, another shot where the animal disappears from that spot at 460 yards, there one screen and than not in the next.

But that animals drink time came to an end just as I was trying to get the last pic. They walked off. Lol

Typical of my luck.

So I tried to do the same thing with another bull at a different part of the same lake. I got into alignment and trying to get the right distances, while taking pics.

But this time, for unknown reasons, when I got to 460 yards the bison did disappear, however, when I moved back into render range again, within seconds, the animal would not re-render. And even at 400 yards it wouldn't reappear.

And I could see clearly all around it's position and would have easily been able to see it walking away.

It just did not re-render onto the map.

Why?????

The only thing I can point to is that at the time i moved out of render distance, it was time for NZ to change, like the earlier bison. Maybe that caused the AI to spawn it nearer to, or at the next appropriately scheduled NZ.

I'm not sure what all this means with regard to overall spawning, but it's certainly worthy of discussion and speculation.

[Findus]

Originally posted by Geronimo:

I'm not sure what you've said in this post though. You seem to be suggesting that these ones in my test were not spawning into the map but had simply made their way to that location and than simply walked beyond render distance.

Correct me if I misunderstood.

Yes, and only then got into the loop. That would be my experience/expectation, but doesn't mean it absolutely had to happen this way, of course.

Originally posted by Geronimo:

Anyway, I can post a couple screenshots of the area where this particular event occurred, which will clearly show these 6 animals actually appearing from our of thin air and than departing.

And the location is actually right on the shoreline of a pond which limits any possible hidden approaches.

I took alot of screens so I hope I have some that will convincingly depict one of these bison appearing out of the blue.

I'm not doubting that you saw them appear out of thin air due to the loop, but maybe they got there before you first noticed them. The maps aren't always accurate or conclusive in regards to water and the female you tracked crossed it as well. E.g. they could have a rest zone near the tower and made their way to a feed zone farther out. Or depending on from where or how you approached the tower you might have spooked them.
They could even have a rest zone close to where you saw the loop happen.
I guess there is a chance of them becoming renderable for the first time for this session and being caught in a loop immediately when you arrived at the tower, but I'm not sure that would allow for any conclusions regarding spawning in general and I assume you had no way of completely surveying your surrounding while approaching the tower (and even then animals can be hidden e.g. by trees).

Did you notice/pay attention to the tracks of the other animals of the herd outside of the vicinity of the kill zone?

Edit: Made some changes to the text.

[Geronimo]

I cannot say with certainty that my approach to the tower didn't affect the normal routine of this herd. It's very likely that it did.

This herd could have already been in another position and spooked away by my imposition.

And yes, I did attempt to backtrack all of the tracks of the individuals involved in the loop by scouring the area spiralling outward for a few hundred yards around the loop area.

Their tracks were only found inside the loop area and all leaving in the same direction. There were no incoming tracks.

With regard to your speculation around their possibly entering that area without being seen by me, or simply appearing as I reached the point of rendering them, say 430-460 yards, I must be adamant that from my observation point at the top of that lookout, and the open, unobstructed/ uncluttered terrain into which they appeared, there was no doubt whatsoever that these animals were actually appearing/spawning into that same exact spot each time they looped. And that spawn point was NOT beyond my rendering range. And I had no room to move in my position on the last stairway before entering the lookout shelter. I was standing in one place on the threshold of the stairway into the shelter so my view wouldn't be through windows.

This is where I first noticed the animals spawning out of thin air and realised it was a looping event.

From than on all the observation was done from that position where I couldn't take more than a couple steps in any direction.

And from that perspective there were no bushes, trees, rocks, or anything that would obstruct my view of anything incoming to that specific point where the bison were spawning. And I do have screenshots of it becomes necessary to validate what I'm claiming.

If they had gotten there before I first noticed them, than there would have been incoming signature to backtrack. There was none. The only trail beyond their loop position was that of the female which aggroed on me and came to the tower.

Aside from this instance, on other such occurrences I've encountered in the past, this spawning into the area is always well inside of the render distance, and not involving my moving closer. So this event is similar in that regard to many other accounts I have experienced.

These looping animals are not traveling on the map and coming into view, or traveling while hidden in brush and suddenly appearing from cover. These events involve animals suddenly spawning into a location on the terrain where I should have been capable of seeing them, and there is typically no signature of their incoming to that spot. Their only signature is of their departure.

Sorry for the restating and lengthy text, I'm just trying to be as concise as possible.

[raystevens73]

I've had this happen several times as you only ever notice it where you can see the map clearly past the animal render distance. 1st time for me was at a lake and the herd was 300 yards away, lined up a shot, the one I shot dropped, and the rest would run out of sight then teleport to an area just above where the one I shot dropped. Killed all 9 of them by timing my shot to the spot they re-spawned in. Also like you I was prone on the ground so not moving like you in the stand, maybe not moving causes this to happen as every time I have seen it I was stationary.

[RatBoggles]

Thank-you for you continued studies

[Findus]

Finding no tracks outside the area does indeed seem to indicate they didn't start closer to you (assuming the track creation or preservation wasn't screwed up somehow by the loop or the initial tracks weren't hidden because of time or location travel like it seemed to be happening in Vurhonga on occasion). I was just bringing this up because in my experience, it's often animals heading away from me that ultimately get caught in a loop (i.e. I observed them before they got into the loop, sometimes it's fleeing animals).

And just in case that wasn't clear: I'm not saying there is no loop or spawning (as in becoming visible) happening, just that you might not have caught sight of the animals before they got into the loop (assuming they did in fact start closer to you).

Originally posted by Geronimo:

Aside from this instance, on other such occurrences I've encountered in the past, this spawning into the area is always well inside of the render distance, and not involving my moving closer. So this event is similar in that regard to many other accounts I have experienced.

I'm not sure if I was clear enough regarding this before (or maybe I edited the confirmation in after you had already read the comment), but there are two render distances. One for animals becoming invisble and a closer one where they become visible. Your observations so far and also the shown screenshots seem to indicate that the animals become visible where they should, at "spawn in" render distance.
I'm not sure what you mean with "involving your moving closer". The loop will persist as long as you don't change your position significantly. If you were to move closer, there is a good chance of the loop being resolved. For example, if you spawned into that tent next to the tower and then climbed the tower that might or might not be enough distance to change the condition for the loop existing.

[Geronimo]

What I find most often is that looping animals aren't approaching me and coming into the 430 yard rendering in range.

They're usually just appearing at a stand still, and upon spawning in they immediately turn and head away to disappear at the 460 yard rendering out range.

I've never seen animals travelling, and then entering into a loop, as you say you've seen. That would be even offer than what I'm witnessing because in your case the animals were already on the map. It would suggest that normally spawned animals can disappear into these loop circumstances, which is as concerning as them being stuck in a piling up glitch.

You are right about the loop event being cancelled when you try to move closer to it.

[Findus]

If they were to approach you from the spawning in distance, there probably wouldn't be a loop. And if there is a loop from spawning out to spawning in distance, we might never see it.