This game is a missed opportunity

[Gelfan_Dothea]

This is sort of a rant...

So I have about 80 hours now and the game is nearly out of steam. The more I play the more I can't help but think this game (and the Apex engine) are a huge missed opportunity. Now I know I'll catch hell from all you hunter people, because of course this is a hunter game, but these huge maps could be better utilized for so much more. I mean seriously, once you get enough in-game cash to purchase the few worthwhile items, complete the paltry selection of missions, and visit all the marked locations, the only thing left to do is walk around and shoot unsuspecting animals as they drink water. Boring. Even the perks and skills aren't worth obtaining.

1. I would love to see a PC version of this game. And no I don't mean the PS4 port that we got. I mean trees and grass that actually look and move like trees and grass. Not these pitiful 2D trees that become flat and turn as you walk around them. That crap was used in Doom 1995. Don't get me wrong this game is gorgeous, but it could be f--king insane.

2. We need some survival DLCs. I would love to see some type of Dying Light: The Following type gameplay where you do your objectives and run screaming through the woods at night as you try to get to a cabin while outrunning stalkers or such. Could you just imagine zombie survival on these maps? That would be insane! But, since that's unlikely to happen the devs could make all the animals get rabies and try to kill us as we complete missions and save tourists. The sky is the limit. At the very least give us something more to do than simply shooting harmless animals while they try to eat.

3. RPG elements make everything better. It would be nice if we had some perks/skills that were actually worth a damn, like the ability to sprint as a 20 year old instead of an 80 year old. Or the ability to completely steady the scope. How about the ability to rock climb in order to reach otherwise locked areas with some actual cool stuff to look at. Easter eggs, secret weapons, etc.. How about a pair of sneakers that masks all sound while running? Which brings me to final note...

4. Give us something to explore. The other day I spent an hour jumping up a mountain at the edge of the map (something we've all done) and what did I get for my troubles... nothing. Could have, at the very least, given me a 'Top of the World' achievement. Or a cool zip line to slide down.


Again, I understand this is a hunting game. The only reason I'm frustrated is because no other game offers a world this expansive, and with this much raw potential. Not even Far Cry Primal has this much territory. You could fit like three Primal maps into one of these. Just seems to me that it's wasted on a hunting game. Hunters may disagree on principal, but deep down you know I'm right. Motorcycles are my thing, but even I would never say "zipping around static tracks all day for no reason is perfect" simply because it's a motorcycle game. I'd say "hell yeah, throw some crazy sh-- in there. Make it fun!"

Okay, rant over. Such a shame.

[James]

Perhaps Just Cause is for you?
It uses the Avalanche Apex engine.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/225540/Just_Cause_3/
There is a 1, 2 and 4 also.

[Gelfan_Dothea]

Funny you should mention that. I actually own all four of them (got the bundle). I tried playing them, but the fact that they're 3rd person is just.. just...

Look I know now it was immature, but I actually sent an email to the developers letting them know just how stupid they were for not including first person. No idea if it actually reached them, but it made me feel better at the time. In the end I just came to grips with the fact that, like all PC games now, it was developed for the console, so the developers weren't entirely wrong to do it. Just another lazy port is all. Like this game.

Side Note: I know it's not economical to spend months (and millions) remaking assets for a game to utilize the potential of the PC. I'm just bitter about it (like most PC gamers). Games should be developed for the PC AND THEN cut down to suit consoles. Not the other way around.

[James]

I did not know Just Cause was 3rd person only (never played it). I see that's a no-no then.

Yes, I am totally with you on the PC-perspective. So many (good) games (concepts) are being wasted when adapted/cut back to xbox/ps4 or alike. From a PC user perspective :)

But they make money that way, so it's a double sided coin. It's the opposite situation now, PC lives on console market with strangled titles, instead of - like before - console could take advantage of PC-titles.

Mudrunner was/is another good example of a superb game being ported to console as in Snowrunner, taking 10 steps backwards in the making. Not to mention the "other" recently released hunting game.

[DopaTrain]

Originally posted by Gelfan_Dothea:

the only thing left to do is walk around and shoot unsuspecting animals as they drink water.

Ha ha. This is the best bit.

[Geronimo]

It seems there are some people that have to have a goal/achievement oriented gaming experience, which without, they inevitably become bored. And this is something they encounter in every genre because most games have an endgame.

These hunting genre games are not for those types, simply put. These are not endgame progressions. They are purposely designed to be played a specific way, and enjoyed as such over and over. All that's needed is an endless supply of ammo and quarry, combined with a vast area in which to play.

I agree there could be some enhancing of 'treasure finds' and unique experiences to encounter. But to make it a game like RPGs or other genres would be a horrible mistake.

There are some great landscape finds already existing in most maps, so I suppose it's just a matter of where to draw the line.

@ Gelfan, I suppose you expected to hear this lol, but I have to ask you, is it possible that you are one of those players who only hunts near drink zones and you're missing out on alot more of the game's potential as a result?

[Gelfan_Dothea]

Originally posted by Geronimo:

I agree there could be some enhancing of 'treasure finds' and unique experiences to encounter. But to make it a game like RPGs or other genres would be a horrible mistake.

The game already has the RPG elements from which I speak of. The money, XP, Skills/Perks, etc.. are already in place. I've simply found that the achievements are fairly useless. For example, the .308 assault rifle with stock scope is all you need accurately kill anything in the game. Really no NEED to achieve anything else. The only real Perks that are worth anything are breathing, steady scope, and stealth, which I've maxed, and they have made 0 difference. I just think they could have been more creative.

Originally posted by Geronimo:

@ Gelfan, I suppose you expected to hear this lol, but I have to ask you, is it possible that you are one of those players who only hunts near drink zones and you're missing out on a lot more of the game's potential as a result?

I am definitely one of those players who miss out on a lot of the intended game mechanics. I don't actually hunt. I just walk around until I hear or see something in my line of site, then I shoot at it. If I see a 🟣 on the map I'll go track it with the dog, otherwise I keep going towards the marker (objective). This is why I made a point of noting that I do understand it's a hunting game. I guess it's just that a lot of people probably purchase this game because it looked amazing (and it was $3.99 lol) so I'm just wishing they had added more to do for those who aren't hunters. You know, like park ranger type stuff. This game is solid, but there's just so much cool stuff they could do here. Like my animals get rabies DLC I mentioned.

Side Note: I have gotten over 100 hours of enjoyable gameplay from this game (amazing how fast it goes), so I will never say it's a bad game. It was definitely money well spent.

[James]

I see no missed oportunity in COTW. It is an extended oportunity from The Hunter Classic.
A few things can be improved and is probably worked on. What scares me the most is that EW seem to have a new dev team on the title introducing unwanted features (remember POI icons?) and now kwak kwak animals to every map. I feel I can now hunt on just a few maps - I really hate the kwak kwak - since it appears as an alarm clock that you can not turn off. The gracious solitude is gone!

[Gelfan_Dothea]

So I wanted to take a moment to better explain my position on improvements for mechanics that are already in place within the scope of the game. Best of both worlds as it were.

1. The graphics. This is a gimme. The average gaming PC is far more powerful than even the latest consoles, so graphics should definitely reflect this. That and the fact that we love games that bring our PCs to their knees. I know it's weird, but it gives us something to look forward to in the future. I'll say no more on this.

2. Artifacts. For those who have played Far Cry 3, 4, and Primal, you know that outside of the main story and side missions there are also hundreds of artifacts strategically placed throughout the world that you can (optionally) go after for additional XP (used for acquiring skills. This not only extends gameplay by untold hours it also benefits the developers with incentive. I once heard a game developer say, "it makes no sense to spend time and money making an area look photo-realistic when the player is only going to spend a few seconds running through it or bypass it all together." These artifacts ensure that gamers will see all that hard work. And here's the best part. This mechanic is already in the game. All those antlers and trinkets you randomly come across that give you XP. The devs simply need to add more and make them visible on the map. There are a lot of completionists out there. 100% completion steam award.

3. Sense of danger. I just started playing the Yukon map. I was retrieving a kill when suddenly I heard growling all around me. It was a pack of wolves. I'm used to the animals running away, but these began circling me and growling. For the first time in 100 hours I felt fear. I didn't have any med-packs or my shotgun, because there are no dangers in this game, so I genuinely thought I was going to die several miles from a save point. And there was no where to run to for safety. It was exhilarating. It was the best 60 seconds of my entire 100 hours. Now, the actual AI was akin to an unfinished indie game. I killed 6 of them over the span of 60 seconds because all they did was run around me (hard to hit with a scope up close), but it was still great fun. It's also the only time it's happened, so probably just a fluke. Adding an element of survival to any game changes everything. This is how I know my Rabies DLC would be a huge hit. Nothing cooler than running for a cabin while a huge blood thirsty grizzly or crazed moose chases you.

There's a lot more, but I don't want to beat a dead horse.


Side Note: The only reason I even mention this stuff is because part of me is hoping the developers still review these threads from time to time for feedback. It would be nice if one of them were to come across my ideas.

[James]

1) How do you think extending rendering distance would be received by people without a high end PC? This is a very complex matter in terms of raw computational power and technique.

2) Sure, more things to find as an explorer would be good (Medved Taiga is a good one). Or even make you take more photos? Not liking the idea of having this visible on the map.

3) I think the sense of danger is enough as it is. It was increased recently. Not sure I like it.

Just a few thoughts.

[Haddock_Dundee]

Originally posted by Gelfan_Dothea:

I killed 6 of them over the span of 60 seconds because all they did was run around me (hard to hit with a scope up close), but it was still great fun.

I remember my first meet with wolves in Yukon months ago. Circling me and finally eating me for dinner because I did struggle with scope. Now I know, when so close, to toggle off the scope and aim directly (key "u", on a french Azerty keyboard, in my key bindings setup). They never did eat me again. Right I'm hard old meat anyway.

[Gelfan_Dothea]

Originally posted by James:

1) How do you think extending rendering distance would be received by people without a high end PC? This is a very complex matter in terms of raw computational power and technique.

Hahaha... I'm not talking about something so trivial as increasing draw distance. I'm talking about completely recreating the vegetation with fully 3D 4k assets and realtime wind physics. See each and every leaf fluttering in the wind. Make it look and feel as though you're really walking through a dynamically changing forest.

As far as how it would be received goes, I image there's a lot of gamers who would shell out $19.99 for a photorealistic upgrade. Nearly 20 years later and Can It Run Crysis is still a thing. Regarding the "high end PC" aspect of it... I'll put it to you this way- I'm playing this game on a potato. It has an old Phenom II and an RX 6600. My computer has less gaming horsepower than an Xbox Series S, and yet I'm playing at 4K on the highest settings and still getting over 70 FPS. Do you understand what this means? The graphics in this game are PS3/PS4 level. It needs to be upgraded. Especially if the developers intend to keep using the pay-as-you-go model.

Watch this, and then go play Call of the Wild. (FYI, this is a playable demo. You can download it).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7FupEUw5q0

NOTE: No PC gamer has ever complained about a game's graphics being too good for their computer. It's the only reason to keep buying graphics cards.

[Commander Freedom]

It's not a "missed" opportunity, it's a hunting game and a very good at that.

Missed opportunity to make a new IP with these graphics and world maps? perhaps, it depends on the game but there are plenty of action shooters with great open world maps out there.

[Gelfan_Dothea]

I agree with you that it's a very good hunting game. I purchased several back when I couldn't get this one to work and hands down this one is the best, which is WHY I'm saying that THIS game needs to be updated. I don't want to play another IP, because the mechanics won't be as good. All this game needs is a graphical overhaul of its assets, and the inclusion of a few more goal oriented objectives. Nothing more.

Even the developers themselves used improved graphics in their demos to sell the game. As I said earlier, I have over 100 hours in this game at its highest possible settings and it damn sure doesn't look as good as they make it look in their video. But, it's clear that the engine is certainly capable of these graphics, because... well... they did it. They just didn't give us the option to do it :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77G5dUKzdek

[sneakybass]

Originally posted by Gelfan_Dothea:

This is sort of a rant...

So I have about 80 hours now and the game is nearly out of steam. The more I play the more I can't help but think this game (and the Apex engine) are a huge missed opportunity. Now I know I'll catch hell from all you hunter people, because of course this is a hunter game, but these huge maps could be better utilized for so much more. I mean seriously, once you get enough in-game cash to purchase the few worthwhile items, complete the paltry selection of missions, and visit all the marked locations, the only thing left to do is walk around and shoot unsuspecting animals as they drink water. Boring. Even the perks and skills aren't worth obtaining.

1. I would love to see a PC version of this game. And no I don't mean the PS4 port that we got. I mean trees and grass that actually look and move like trees and grass. Not these pitiful 2D trees that become flat and turn as you walk around them. That crap was used in Doom 1995. Don't get me wrong this game is gorgeous, but it could be f--king insane.

2. We need some survival DLCs. I would love to see some type of Dying Light: The Following type gameplay where you do your objectives and run screaming through the woods at night as you try to get to a cabin while outrunning stalkers or such. Could you just imagine zombie survival on these maps? That would be insane! But, since that's unlikely to happen the devs could make all the animals get rabies and try to kill us as we complete missions and save tourists. The sky is the limit. At the very least give us something more to do than simply shooting harmless animals while they try to eat.

3. RPG elements make everything better. It would be nice if we had some perks/skills that were actually worth a damn, like the ability to sprint as a 20 year old instead of an 80 year old. Or the ability to completely steady the scope. How about the ability to rock climb in order to reach otherwise locked areas with some actual cool stuff to look at. Easter eggs, secret weapons, etc.. How about a pair of sneakers that masks all sound while running? Which brings me to final note...

4. Give us something to explore. The other day I spent an hour jumping up a mountain at the edge of the map (something we've all done) and what did I get for my troubles... nothing. Could have, at the very least, given me a 'Top of the World' achievement. Or a cool zip line to slide down.


Again, I understand this is a hunting game. The only reason I'm frustrated is because no other game offers a world this expansive, and with this much raw potential. Not even Far Cry Primal has this much territory. You could fit like three Primal maps into one of these. Just seems to me that it's wasted on a hunting game. Hunters may disagree on principal, but deep down you know I'm right. Motorcycles are my thing, but even I would never say "zipping around static tracks all day for no reason is perfect" simply because it's a motorcycle game. I'd say "hell yeah, throw some crazy sh-- in there. Make it fun!"

Okay, rant over. Such a shame.

Being at the time when It was released It was number one and still is. This game will have to change some with two other games fighting for your money , I watched a game yesterday by dd33 playing way of the hunter . The animals dam near look real ears and tail flips the animals dam near looked real acted real, head and neck movements looking around looked awsome and when they look your way. , deer even bound on all four legs but tails do not flip back and forth when running a trait that whitetails do they do tales do stick straight known as flaging. The game had one bug while he was playing, deer freezing in place standing up when killed frozen, even this game did that along time ago. Sneaking In when 200 to 300 away still seems broken some but dd33 did get within 55 yards of a deer herd still no bows in game. Forced to move at a snails pace like crawling the entire game It looked so pain full,COTW you can close the distance a little faster seems a little more real more realistic . EW will have to step It up newer animal behaviors and make them look more real deer need a face lift , true racks in this game are awsome keep adding more different antlers all the time because Its a blast to see some thing different and new skins for the deer like the Moose , because WOTW is working on their new antlers for the game. EW Still has a great game just needs a face lift . Or does EW plan on building a new game later on based on being realistic who knows ,I still have more faith In EW ..

[sneakybass]

Originally posted by Gelfan_Dothea:

Originally posted by James:

1) How do you think extending rendering distance would be received by people without a high end PC? This is a very complex matter in terms of raw computational power and technique.

Hahaha... I'm not talking about something so trivial as increasing draw distance. I'm talking about completely recreating the vegetation with fully 3D 4k assets and realtime wind physics. See each and every leaf fluttering in the wind. Make it look and feel as though you're really walking through a dynamically changing forest.

As far as how it would be received goes, I image there's a lot of gamers who would shell out $19.99 for a photorealistic upgrade. Nearly 20 years later and Can It Run Crysis is still a thing. Regarding the "high end PC" aspect of it... I'll put it to you this way- I'm playing this game on a potato. It has an old Phenom II and an RX 6600. My computer has less gaming horsepower than an Xbox Series S, and yet I'm playing at 4K on the highest settings and still getting over 70 FPS. Do you understand what this means? The graphics in this game are PS3/PS4 level. It needs to be upgraded. Especially if the developers intend to keep using the pay-as-you-go model.

Watch this, and then go play Call of the Wild. (FYI, this is a playable demo. You can download it).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7FupEUw5q0

NOTE: No PC gamer has ever complained about a game's graphics being too good for their computer. It's the only reason to keep buying graphics cards.

It all sounds great Gelfan there might be limitations to this graphics engine or make a new game with better grapfics well that could hurt =the hunter game= . I know one thing If EW had a new build with photo realistic graphics new everything ,I would be moving on to It. The way I see It improve on every thing In COTW more realistic animals and skins like the Moose. Have deer walk and trot more realistic In game. One more thing I don't want this game all about shooting a quarter of a mile away . Shooting animals like In game less than 700 hundred yards should be max even in real life. Longest I have ever shot animals was 550 yards and that was only twice. Most were only 250 yards in real life.