Expanding or penetrating ammo?

[Sкiткj3ll]

Can someone more knowledgeable than me explain when and where to use the different types? I always end up using polymer tip ammo for some reason. But the expanding ones need to have some sort of advantage over the other and vice versa, right? Otherwise, what's the point?

I've been playing for quite some time (70 hours logged) and reached level 22, but I always tend to just go with the polymer tips.

I understand the concept, and to some degree the point, of the penetrating ammo, I'm not that daft, but I was wondering if it somehow affects the overall score and effectiveness depending on when and where and in what circumstances you use them?

Thanks :)

[TangOscar]

My experience: Strongly depends on how far the animal's class differs from the ammo's class range.

For TMG: The closer the animal is to the maximun class of the ammo, the more you have to shoot perfectly at the lungs from the side.
PSG: Don'r care, just shoot.

Many players give the advise, if you shoot further than 150m you should use PSG, I can't confirm that. I shoot with TMG at 400m without any problems.

What else I figured out what difference it makes is, how far the animal will run until it die.

[Sкiткj3ll]

Yeah. I did notice that the closer I was to the animal the more effective the expanding bullets were. I guess it kind of affects how much base damage the initial hit does maybe? I mean, the more initial damage the shorter they should run before bleeding out, if I understand it correctly.

[Hidden Gunman]

Basically, one is the intro ammo, the other is the upgrade. It's a two dimensional system, rather than the ammunition types having different uses.

[Striker]

It's the size of the hole that matters in this game when it comes to how fast an animal will bleed out. Small holes = longer blood trails to follow. That's why a single lung hit made with a broad head arrow will usually drop an animal faster than an animal hit made with a rifle bullet at the same distance. Small holes = longer blood trails.

[Sкiткj3ll]

Ah, alright. I think I get the basics of it. Thanks, guys :)

[Sкiткj3ll]

Originally posted by Hidden Gunman:

Basically, one is the intro ammo, the other is the upgrade. It's a two dimensional system, rather than the ammunition types having different uses.

Yeah, that was my take on it at first, but then I noticed the expansion stat. I mean, it has to fill some function, right? But seeing as it's pretty basic maybe it doesen't. Expanding ammo in real life does do more tissue damage, which is why I assumed the expanding ammo maybe had a higher base damage at the initial hit, while the penetrating ammo maybe had a higher chance of hurting larger animals with weaker weapons.

But meh! ♥♥♥♥ logic, right? xD

But I probably shouldn't overthink it... xD

[LokkNar]

The way this game works, the "expansion" ammo basically shatters on impact, whereas the "penetrative" ammo behaves like FMJ. This is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ because BOTH are expanding bullets. Generally, for anything higher than class 3 you should use polymer tip where applicable. I can't count the time where a soft point bullet got stuck in the muscle right before hitting a vital, from a distance that irl would have not only penetrated the vital, but also went through the whole body.

tl;dr use polymer tip whenever possible

[Dan Conner [GER]]

I made some tests with polymer and soft point bullets. I wanted to know how effictive is a rifle for animal class 4-8 (270, 30-06 or 303). So it went to Medved and tested them on moose. The results were very intresting. I compared shots at 150m and 200m with polymer and soft points - broadside shoulder hit. At 150m the soft point bullet was more effictive than polymer bullet. It was a much better quick kill.
Generally when your cartridge has not enough power to hit double lung, it is better to use soft point bullets.
Transfered on the expample with rifle animal class 4-8 --> polymer bullets for animal class 4-6 at any distance / soft point bullets for animal class 7-8 at 150m or closer.
Sure, you can cover the upper animal classes with another stronger cartridge (338 or 300 WinMag) and use only polymer tips. But the soft point challenge makes more fun ;-)

[AfterCrow]

I believe the developers originally had a creative vision for the expanding bullets that they couldn't come through on.

As mentioned by LokkNar, both of these ammo types are actually expanding bullets (I don't believe FMJs and armor piercing bullets are common in hunting but I could be wrong), but one has more expansion and one has more penetration.

The idea is that the expanding bullets should cause a more severe bleed rate, but unfortunately the weapon balancing in this game relies heavily on the penetration ability of the caliber. When the penetration capability is as limited as it is, and with penetration being the limiting factor, it essentially necessitates polymer rounds.

HOWEVER, there are some cases where soft points or hollow points can be useful. For example, if you shoot a pronghorn for double lung with the 7mm, the polymer tip bullet will cut straight through the animal. In these cases you can use soft point bullets for these two reasons:
1) It will deliver more energy to the target and (potentially) cause a quicker kill.*
2) The soft point cartridges are less expensive, thereby maximizing profit per animal.

*I should mention that the animal dies almost instantly in either case, in the case of pronghorn.

Also keep in mind that even the polymer tip bullets will not have enough penetration in all cases. I have on multiple occasions shot roe deer with perfect heart shot placement, with polymer tips in caliber .223 and .243 (calibers supposed to be used on this animal according to the game), but the bullet only goes half an inch into their chest (no heart damage).

In conclusion, I think it's fair to say the balancing of calibers and bullet types in this game can use some refinement. Until then try to stick with the polymer rounds primarily.

[briansaxton]

Originally posted by LokkNar:

The way this game works, the "expansion" ammo basically shatters on impact, whereas the "penetrative" ammo behaves like FMJ. This is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ because BOTH are expanding bullets. Generally, for anything higher than class 3 you should use polymer tip where applicable. I can't count the time where a soft point bullet got stuck in the muscle right before hitting a vital, from a distance that irl would have not only penetrated the vital, but also went through the whole body.

tl;dr use polymer tip whenever possible

Exactly this.

[LokkNar]

Originally posted by AfterCrow:

I don't believe FMJs and armor piercing bullets are common in hunting but I could be wrong

At least in my country FMJ for hunting is not explicitly forbidden, but nobody uses it because it doesn't really transfer energy to the body. In war it's ok because you just want the guy to be out of the fight, but for hunting, you want the animal dead as quickly as possible.

Originally posted by AfterCrow:

but the bullet only goes half an inch into their chest (no heart damage).

Ah yes, the classic "bullet gets stuck right between the lungs above the heart because there's totally no blood vessels there or anything

[AfterCrow]

@LokkNar

No I'm serious, Like literally half an inch into their manly chest hair, and no further.

Like this: https://xboxclips.co/aftercrow/28efab8a-1384-4999-9478-62ae19d8176c

German roe deer species be distant relatives of Chuck Norris. True fact.

[LokkNar]

@AfterCrow I didn't mean to mock you, I have had this happen numerous times in the past and it never gets less infuriating.

[AfterCrow]

@LokkNar Oh no, I wasn't offended or anything, its all good.

IMO they should decrease the size of the flesh hitbox on the chest area of the roe. (since they refuse to buff the ammo). So that the bullet can actually reach the heart I mean.