45-70 or 7mm?

[DuskGod]

was saving for the 7mm but i had a good run and unlocked the 45/70 so now should i save for the 45 or buy the 7mm?

[Lightshifty]

Originally posted by Tactical Otaku Dumbass:

45-70 is absolute GARBAGE. I did some research on the caliber, said it was used to kill BISON back in the late 1800. So when I heard that I was like "SIGN ME UP, 3 SHOTS = 3 BISONS." After I bought it and took it for a field test, the thing was didn't do crap to the bisons, and they were all heart/lung shots. Still very low, tried moose, still nothing, elk, nothing, only bear and white tail. It's a good gun to carry if you don't want to waste 7mm to deer/bear. Just don't buy it in the 1st place. Buy a whitlock 30-30

You are wrong. The 45-70 in this game is rated BELOW the 7mm. It is for wild boar and whitetail deer, which is exactly the same as the .270 which is no surprise as they are the same rating. And the whitlock 30-30 is rated further BELOW the 45-70 and is the same as the .270 and is for coyotes, roe, fallow and blacktail. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. That being said, you can easily instantly kill 3 bisons in 3 shots with it, just not with a heart and lung shot.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=919355593

compare it to the whitlock 30-30 (which has the same rating as the .243 btw) and the 30-30 fails to kill it instanly, they run a few metres before dropping but it too can still kill in 1 shot and 3 bisons in 3 shots.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=878482758

Even the .243 can kill 3 bisons in 3 shots, just not instantly.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=909038998

Notice how all calibres above can take down 3 bisons in 3 shots, but the lower the calibre, the longer it takes for the animal to drop and the lower you score on the quick kill bonus. It's the reason why the 45-70 is the only one of the three shown above that can score 100% quick kill. It's the same reason why the 7mm and .338 also score 100% quick kill, because they are even more powerful and are rated higher than the 45-70. The 45-70 (along with the .270 because they are the same) therefore, is the lowest powered rifle that can still score 100% quick kill on a bison.

The 45-70, which is below the 7mm and .338 is the first rifle in the game that can drop a bison instantly. So no, your recommendation of ''Just don't buy it in the 1st place. Buy a whitlock 30-30'' which is even further below the 45-70 and cannot kill a bison instantly is uneducated and simply false.

Just because the 30-30 and 45-70 are more expensive rifles doesn't mean they are for bigger game. 30-30 with the huge price tage is the same as the FREE starter weapon .243 and the 45-70 is the same as the .270 which is a cheap and early weapon, the only difference is they are for close range and look older. Don't judge weapons on their price.

For a weapon that is only designed to fill the role of killing whitetail and wild boar, it's unfair to critisize it for not killing the biggest species simply because you are aiming for a heart and lung shot out of your own incompetency with the weapon. Learn how and where to aim and it is one of only 3 rifles capable of dropping a bison on the spot instantly.

Even though they are both the same in power (varying on range) and rating, and are equally designed in this game for whitetail and wild boar, nobody critisizes the .270 for not being used on Bison. I believe this is simply because people look at the price of the 45-70, and automatically assume that it must be for bigger game when it is clearly not. You are simply paying more for the nostalgic feel of a very old weapon based on both the Marlin Model 1895 and Henry Model H010, looking at photos it merges physical characteristics of both of these guns creating the fictional gun we call coachmate.

I'm glad I have cleared things up for people.

[Fischkopf]

I dont wanna offend you but you are referring just to the game mechanics and this has nothing to do with reality. And this is the point which has been criticized alot. I knew that there are several rifle and ammunition charts have been brought up to show which caliber is used for what kind of game. Also players who played TheHunter classic have complained a lot the low power of the 45/70 (and the 30-30 too) and that it neither reflect its power in reality not the power of TheHunter classic.

[Lightshifty]

They were complaining that it couldn't kill Bison in 1 shot and that people should just buy the 30-30 instead as they thought it was more powerful, I disproved both of those points. You can kill Bison in real life and in the game with the 45-70.

The 45-70 was the biggest calibre they had in the late 1800's and there are many stories of successful hunts on Bison simply because there was no alternative calibre. Similarly, people have had many successful hunts on deer with .22lr but does that make .22lr a great deer calibre? No, because we have bigger and more ethical calibres for deer.

Modern 45-70 rounds are very different from the original black powder 45-70 bullets and have a better trajectory, vastly superior penetration and muzzle velocity. Back in the 1800's with original ammunition, killing large game with one was a big deal. On paper, the MODERN version of the cartridge falls well short of the most commonly used buffalo cartridges like the .375 H&H, the .338, 416 Rigby, the .458 Winchester, and the .458 Lott.

The .45-70 is not the best tool for the job, but it is certainly capable of killing a Bison, which is why the 45-70 sits where it is at in the game mechanics. Can the 45-70 kill a Bison in 1 shot in real life, yes. Can it in the game too? Yes and it can still score you 100% across the board. But there are more suitable and higher calibres for large game in real life and in the game.

[Arizona Green Tea]

Originally posted by Lightshifty:

They were complaining that it couldn't kill Bison in 1 shot and that people should just buy the 30-30 instead as they thought it was more powerful, I disproved both of those points. You can kill Bison in real life and in the game with the 45-70 easily.

Explain, I always sneak up on bison to 25 meters. T W E N T Y F I V E M E T ER S. And all I get is a very low-low bleeding rate, even with a heart shot! It's an overkill for deer and bear, but the power seems to stop at elk and moose, so tell me, how do I easily kill a bison in game with the 45-70

[Lightshifty]

Originally posted by Tactical Otaku Dumbass:

Originally posted by Lightshifty:

They were complaining that it couldn't kill Bison in 1 shot and that people should just buy the 30-30 instead as they thought it was more powerful, I disproved both of those points. You can kill Bison in real life and in the game with the 45-70 easily.

Explain, I always sneak up on bison to 25 meters. T W E N T Y F I V E M E T ER S. And all I get is a very low-low bleeding rate, even with a heart shot! It's an overkill for deer and bear, but the power seems to stop at elk and moose, so tell me, how do I easily kill a bison in game with the 45-70

The same way you can with any rifle in the game, by aiming at the right spots. Aim for the spine or neck:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=919355593

You can even do it with the .243 with free ammo (but notice you wont get 100% quick kill bonus). 45-70 is the lowest calibre that can still score 100% across the board on bison.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=909038998

The reason why a heart and lung shot does not work with these calibres is because the distance needed to enter the rib cage to do significant damage to the organs is massive. Black powder 45-70 ammunition and the low mass of .243 means that they do not get enough penetration to cover that distance.

[Kaned Dragon]

7mm is my recommendation.
Even though it's only one shot. You can be assured it will put the animal down. At any range.
Too many times I have shot an animal more than once with the 45-70 and it got away, even when it was close.

[Lightshifty]

Originally posted by kaned dragon:

7mm is my recommendation.
Even though it's only one shot. You can be assured it will put the animal down. At any range.
Too many times I have shot an animal more than once with the 45-70 and it got away, even when it was close.

Just like the 45-70 though, the 7mm is not reliable with a heart and lung shot on bison either, as it's more for black bear and red deer. It seems that the .338 is the only rifle calibre in the game so far that can reliably get enough penetration and kill quickly a bison with a heart and lung shot. I do agree that 7mm still penetrates further than the 45-70 though, but it's what you would expect from a step-up in power over the 45-70 and of a longer ranged weapon.

[Kaned Dragon]

Originally posted by Lightshifty:

Originally posted by kaned dragon:

7mm is my recommendation.
Even though it's only one shot. You can be assured it will put the animal down. At any range.
Too many times I have shot an animal more than once with the 45-70 and it got away, even when it was close.

Just like the 45-70 though, the 7mm is not reliable with a heart and lung shot on bison either, as it's more for black bear and red deer. It seems that the .338 is the only rifle calibre in the game so far that can reliably get enough penetration and kill quickly a bison with a heart and lung shot. 7mm still penetrates further than the 45-70 though, but it's what you would expect from a step-up in power.

For Bison, I go for the hump, it's there Achilles heel. It a quick kill if you get it.
The 7mm just about got enough power to punch through the bison and moose skin if you get a good broad side shot to at least get a lung. 45-70 can at close range.
I've finally unlocked the Rhino 454, and that works good on the moose, at least at close range.
Those moose do seem to be too tough atm. Bison are too unless you hump it.
But I simply had better luck with the 7mm. Maybe it's because I knew it was one shot, so i made it count. where as the 45-70 i kept shooting.
I guess it comes down to where are you hunting. If you in Medved or Layton, and it heavy brush, the 45-70 might be better. as you will likely get close encounters, and not many long distance shots.

[Arizona Green Tea]

Spine shots are for people who can't shoot the heart.

[Lightshifty]

Originally posted by Tactical Otaku Dumbass:

Spine shots are for people who can't shoot the heart.

Are you sure about that?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1093453228

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1093453154

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1093453073

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1089999667

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1089544566

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1089027224

Try the same shots with the 45-70 on a bison and you wont get enough penetration to reach the heart. Spine or neck is the way to go.

[WildHunt]

depend on what you are hunting. there is no multi purpose rifle in the game.
only bow & shotgun have different ammo class, but they are only good at close range

[A TIN OF JAR]

Originally posted by Tactical Otaku Dumbass:

Spine shots are for people who can't shoot the heart.

You will proabably find most real life hunters go for either lung, double lung or spine shots due to the fact that they are much, much easier to hit ... Going for a heart shot there is a huge chance to miss leaving the animal to suffer.

Anyway back on topic, i have all weapons unlocked, i dont do missions i have them turned off, i like to free roam.

My rifles of choice are the .243 & 7MM. This is my favorite combination and has been for quite some time both using Polymer Tipped Bullets.

With this combination you can get 100% Integrity Bonus on all animals apart from Red fox and Musk deer.

I also carry the BEARCLAW LITE CB-60 with 420gr Arrows.

[KaiEr]

Originally posted by Tactical Otaku Dumbass:

Spine shots are for people who can't shoot the heart.

IRL, shot placement isn't a pissing competition (urinating - in case they censor the "P" word). We take shots that will bring the animal down. It just so hapens that in-game the spine shot, more ofthen than not, will bring that animal down.

Like I was going to go "Wait - let me wait for a good heart shot, so I can shoot something the size of a softball, perched between randomly moving legs, and forget about that surfboard sized target... because I don't want my friends to think I'm any less of a man."

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1289990713

[Roosterfish]

I prefer the 7mm over the .45-70 in game if for no other reason than the craptacular scope the lever guns have to use. I could make a better scope with plasic wrap, rubber bands, and a used cardboard paper towel roll than the .45-70 has to use.

Devs, for the love of all that is good do something about the lever gun scope. The present lever gun scope could be left in the game but give us the option to use the 1by4 starter scope with the lever guns if it would take to much resources to make a new one. The 1by4 starter scope is more of a brush gun scope anyway and at their heart the lever guns are brush guns.

[Robbold]

I like this thread, so here's my input in a schematic form, backed up by pics:

	.45-70	7mm	Winner
Weapon Class	2	3
Penetration (Pen. Ammo)	40	40
Expansion (Pen. Ammo)	6	12
Rifle Points Required	2976	1925
Price Rifle	48.000	36.000	7mm
Price Penetration Ammo	390	880	.45-70
Ammo Clip Size	3	1	.45-70
100% integrity on Whitetail and Wild boar	Yes	No	.45-70
Whitetail 400m Quick Kill Bonus	100%	100%	on par
Moose 300m Quick Kill Bonus	70%	>90%	7mm
Maximal Sight Zoom	4-8x	8-16x	7mm

Supporting pics:

Whitetail 380m .45-70 - 100% Quick Kill Bonus
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1299793141

Moose 274m .45-70 - 75% Quick Kill Bonus
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1299796216

Moose 338m .45-70 - 65% Quick Kill Bonus
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1299798793

Moose 410m .45-70 kill: penetrates oneside-lung, but fails to reach heart
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1299799847