Turkeys Being Tied to Needzones

[florble mcfumperdink]

So in light of the new reserve we discovered Turkeys are tied to needzones and are not a roaming animal. My own personal preference would have been having turkeys being a roaming animal but zones work too.

So I noted the main complaint about them being zone tied is that you can just spot their drink zones and plink them with the .22LR but I'm not 100% sure that will actually be as viable of a strategy as people think it will.

First of all you get better cash and experience rewards if the animal dies faster, since quick kill is now a metric of earning as opposed to trophy rank. That presents a minor handicap to just slaughtering them with the .22LR because the Turkeys are bigger than the Geese which take a damn long time to die from a body hit from the .22, and good luck getting a headshot on upland fowl that's even more spooky than a rabbit, particularly when it is feeding or drinking.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that the .22LR is a very weak cartridge and while it is meant for use on ducks and rabbit because they drop regardless of what organ you hit, out of the hundreds of rabbits and ducks I have shot with it I can count the number of times I have gotten an organ or bone hit on the body of those animal on one hand, so I'm doubting the 22LR's capability to get a vital hit on a turkey, meaning that if Turkeys do need a vital hit bonus you will have to use a bow or a shotgun on a diamond potential bird, since they will likely be the only things capable of doing enough damage in order for the bird to not just run away and die where you can't claim it. Then of course is the issue of birdshot not having any penetration hardly at all so it is possible turkeys won't need a vital hit.

Then comes how easily the birds spook due to sound, if they behave like any of the land-based animals of the same size, an arrow striking the ground 30 yards away from them will spook them, and the .22 will likely cause a whole flock to run if the bullet lands anywhere near them or hits one of them, and if they do behave that way then why use the .22 when you could be more effective set-up in a blind at a turkey feed or rest zone with a 12 gauge pump loaded with birdshot, or really any shotgun or bow for that matter. Not to mention hunting them with the .22 from far away assumes that you will consistently have sightlines from more than 200 meters away, which is almost never the case, especially in maps with a lot of timber environment.

[McSqurl Nugget]

they should be class 2, 20-25 lb birds are pretty common. they're bigger than the foxes we have in class 2.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Originally posted by McSqurl Nugget:

they should be class 2, 20-25 lb birds are pretty common. they're bigger than the foxes we have in class 2.

Considering that the large toms can exceed 30 pounds I think they should be class 2 or 3 as well, which would make sense considering the rifles. Also I'm pretty sure IRL the minimum for rifles being used to hunt turkeys is .22 magnum, because their feather are basically plated armor, people still aim for the head and neck with 12GA #4 turkey shot and that shot is no joke when it comes to fowl hunting.

Not to mention that in the places that DO allow the use of rifles for Turkey hunting, they seem to only be allowed during the fall season, and the new map seems to be during Spring/Summer. Also, I don't know if private reserves would change hunting rules respective to weapon, I know some areas of private land allow people to take hens during the spring season in spite of them possibly having poults to take care of, but I have no idea if they would allow people on that private land to take turkeys with rifles during the spring season/if at all, or if they are even allowed to change ethical caliber or weapon, so that's up in the air for me.

Personally I'm still gonna hunt them like one would IRL, figure out where the clever little bastards are then set up under a tree about 150 to 200 meters away and begin calling, and wait and hope they come in, and also that there's an actually decent Tom in the flock.

[McSqurl Nugget]

for most hunting regs ID and CO have the same rules. haven't looked at CO for weapons but here you can only hunt turkey with shotguns and birdshot using shells up to but no longer than 3.5 inches. All other weapons are illegal.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Originally posted by McSqurl Nugget:

for most hunting regs ID and CO have the same rules. haven't looked at CO for weapons but here you can only hunt turkey with shotguns and birdshot using shells up to but no longer than 3.5 inches. All other weapons are illegal.

Alright so I did some digging and found the Turkey hunting information brochure on the Colorado Parks & Wildlife website. This is all paraphrased directly from the brochure, which I will link here: https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/RulesRegs/Brochure/turkey.pdf

During the Spring Season hunters are allowed to take two Toms (the brochure say bearded but since hens have poults during the spring I imagine bearded is referring to a tom), one must be taken with a limited license and the other with an over-the-counter. In the fall hunters are allowed to take one of either sex of bird, and then two hens (beardless on the brochure, so presumably it means hens) during the late season.

Tagging is as tagging goes, immediately tag the animal. always leave evidence of gender on the carcass etc.

Methods of take is interesting however.

Shotguns are allowed in both the Spring and Fall seasons, including muzzleloading shotguns. That maximum bore caliber for shotguns in a 10 gauge, and no shotgun used for hunting turkeys can have the capability to load more than 3 shells at once, two in the tube one in the chamber. If a shotgun's capacity exceeds the 3 shell limit you have to plug the tube down to regulation. Shot shells must be size #2 or smaller, both lead and steel shot are allowed to be used. And as is generally the same in all turkey states, slugs are illegal.

Hand-held bows and crossbows are allowed during both seasons, no specifications about arrow grain though, i guess it's supposed to be inferred what you're gonna be skewering a 30 pound bird with, which makes sense they are notoriously tough bastards.

Then there is Rifles and Handguns. During the Spring season both are illegal. During Fall and Late season however, rifles and handguns can be muzzleloading, centerfire, or rimfire. Bullets must be a minimum of 17 grains and the manufacturer's energy rating must be at least 110 foot-pounds at 100 yards' distance from the muzzle.

as some extra notes baiting is completely illegal however turkeys may be taken over crop or feed scattered for agricultural purposes, i.e. a farmer can take turkeys over extra seed or crop waste he dumped on his land post-harvest or at other applicable times.

Artificial decoys and manual calls are permitted, but recorded or electronically amplified calls are illegal.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Originally posted by TheMarcosianOne:

Is the turkeys being "tied to need zones" a final decision or is there a possibility that they may roam? I didn't watch the livestream, just ZaggiD's summary of it.

Does being "tied to a need zone" mean like rabbits and ducks? Or does it just mean that there are need zones for turkeys like any other animal?

I'm just trying to understand the terminology. I apologize if I sound stupid. :)

Since it is a land-based animal that seems rooted to the map I assume it means like deer and the like, so instead of spawning on needzones and basically staying the same area the whole day like ducks in a lake or rabbits near a lake, they spawn at a given point somewhere that may be near a zone, and they bounce between zones in a pathed area.

[Leadmagnet]

I don't think the devs had duck plinking in mind with the 22LR. I think it was more that players discovered they could do it, maintain integrity and shoot a sitting target and not spook the rest of the flock as bad.

Best guess on the arrow is the 300gr to maintain integrity over the 400gr but it's a wait and see thing.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Originally posted by Leadmagnet:

I don't think the devs had duck plinking in mind with the 22LR. I think it was more that players discovered they could do it, maintain integrity and shoot a sitting target and not spook the rest of the flock as bad.

Best guess on the arrow is the 300gr to maintain integrity over the 400gr but it's a wait and see thing.

I think the devs more or less anticipated duck plinking in some form considering that was its more-or-less central purpose in classic.

300 grain arrows should be fine for the Turkeys but i would prefer if they were class 2, because they are far larger than anything in class 1 and larger than everything in class 2 with the exception of coyotes and lynx, but we'll have to wait and see. One thing I will still remain adamant about though, is that I don't think the .22LR will be very effective against turkeys, at least not when compared with the bows, crossbow, and shotguns.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Originally posted by TheMarcosianOne:

Originally posted by Leadmagnet:

I don't think the devs had duck plinking in mind with the 22LR. I think it was more that players discovered they could do it, maintain integrity and shoot a sitting target and not spook the rest of the flock as bad.

Best guess on the arrow is the 300gr to maintain integrity over the 400gr but it's a wait and see thing.

I dont have any of my bow perks anymore but I do have a crossbow. :)

I would so start bringing it with me again if I go turkey hunting, only if I can hit one from far enough away that it doesn't spook the other turkeys. Otherwise, I would just bring two rifles that are 100% full integrity on turkeys and switch to the second one after my first shot.

Another option is to bring the 12GA pump loaded with birdshot and call them in close, then empty the tube, by the end there should be 3 to 6 laying dead.

[florble mcfumperdink]

Originally posted by TheMarcosianOne:

Originally posted by florble mcfumperdink:

Another option is to bring the 12GA pump loaded with birdshot and call them in close, then empty the tube, by the end there should be 3 to 6 laying dead.

I'm such an idiot. It's been a while since I hunted geese with it. :)

I just have slugs in it now for quickly dispatching wolves and other animals within 150m or less but I guess birdshot up close would work.

That shotgun fires twice as fast as my Rhino revolver. I just tested that a few days ago. Had to waste 6 slugs to test it out but it was worth it. The firing range makes every weapon N/A for reloading so its harder to compare different rifles and guns for firing and reload rates.

yeah the pump-action shotty is great with the slug scope, I've killed Whitetail/Blacktail out to 175 meters with it quite easily, works like a charm.

[Mr L]

Why are Turkeys so popular? They're very easy to hunt. At least in real life- I don't see anything special about hunting them

[Geronimo]

The Devs need to look at their programming a lot closer when it comes to AI pathways and fowl.

They have it all screwed up with ducks and geese, so please be certain with how you write codes for the turkeys.

All cotw animals have need zones programmed into their pathways, and how the devs write that for turkeys should be similar to rabbits and not waterfowl.

[CaptainNebulous]

I basically have two options for this

A) Do NOT have the turkeys tied to need zones, but give them sensible pathing and "loitering" behaviors. Do NOT make them instanced like the ducks are.

But

B) If the only way to detach them from need zones is to make them instanced..... then fine, let them be tied to need zones but still give them a lot better behavior AI than most of the animals

It is highly important to me to have NOTHING (including ducks, which currently are) instanced.

[Captain Pansy]

Originally posted by CaptainNebulous:

I basically have two options for this

A) Do NOT have the turkeys tied to need zones, but give them sensible pathing and "loitering" behaviors. Do NOT make them instanced like the ducks are.

But

B) If the only way to detach them from need zones is to make them instanced..... then fine, let them be tied to need zones but still give them a lot better behavior AI than most of the animals

It is highly important to me to have NOTHING (including ducks, which currently are) instanced.

sorry for the stupid question, but what does instanced vs tied to need zone mean? that they respawn and when they respawn on game load, different animals will spawn? with different stats?

[CaptainNebulous]

Originally posted by Captain Pansy:

Originally posted by CaptainNebulous:

I basically have two options for this

A) Do NOT have the turkeys tied to need zones, but give them sensible pathing and "loitering" behaviors. Do NOT make them instanced like the ducks are.

But

B) If the only way to detach them from need zones is to make them instanced..... then fine, let them be tied to need zones but still give them a lot better behavior AI than most of the animals

It is highly important to me to have NOTHING (including ducks, which currently are) instanced.

sorry for the stupid question, but what does instanced vs tied to need zone mean? that they respawn and when they respawn on game load, different animals will spawn? with different stats?

Basically all of the animals in the game are persistent. When they go out of rendering range, they become "markers" behind the scenes but still move around like the AI would. That is.... except for the ducks.... which are not persistent and just spawn in near whatever lake they're going to be landing in... thus adding to the overall undesirable nature of duck hunting in its current state.