The double lung shot complaint.

[KaiEr]

(This actually covers a lot of other complaints about shots.)

Look, I make my complaints known, and I've got a number of them. But when I see a lot of complaints by people who may/may not be hunters, about something that I see as being realistic, I feel the need to speak up before the developers make changes that will detract from the actual hunting reality of the game.

To be 100% honest, there are only a few instances with double lung shots where complaints about the game mechanics are warranted (one of those being zombie animals).

In real life, lung shots are near 100% effective in taking an animal, but the quickness of that kill is a roll of the dice even when using the correct caliber. You've got quite a number of variables other than simply "It's a double lung shot". There's lung shot placement; adrenalin, the size/stamina of an animal, and then there's the actual physical wound/damage done by the shot (is it a through shot with a mushroomed JSP (the actual penetration round), or a poly tip (the actual expansion round) that passed through one and fractured and had shrapnel pierce the second lung? Did it pass through an artery or vein cluster to cause more rapid bleeding?).

IRL, it's pretty much a commonly accepted practice to wait 30+ minutes before tracking an animal after your shot (regardless of it being a lung shot) - there's a reason for this. Some die quickly and others do not. If you jump up and go after the animal it's going to continue to flee, pump adrenalin and die slower; you can let it walk off and die close to you, or you can keep pushing it until it dies.

Granted - I don't know too many people who would be willing to wait 7 real-time minutes before going to find their kill. But I'd bet there'd be a lot fewer people screaming about running around chasing an animal for 15-30 minutes if they did. (Remembering that the game has to balance in-game time and real-time.) But let's be honest - if someone is going to put time into hunting the animal, why is it hard to consider putting a bit of time into allowing the animal to die?

In game you've got people using the wrong caliber, which could extend the length of time it takes to die exponentially, and you've got people who immediately jump up and run after the animal as soon as they can.

It's hypocritical to ask for the game to be realistic overall, yet be completely unrealistic in the way you hunt.

I think every single one of us has taken shots (including double lung shots) and seen:

Animals that have dropped immediately.
Animals that have jumped, walked away and died slowly/quickly.
Animals that have jumped and run varying distances and died slowly/quickly.
Animals that are wounded and lie down, get back up, take a few steps, lie back down and slowly die.

That covers the range of what we'd see in normal life.

The problems I see are in 1) ballistic traits of the rounds, 2) zombie animals. If more people would wait a minute or two before trying to track their animal, I realize it would be completely irritating to find out you waited all that time only to have it be a zombie, but then people would actually start complaining about a real issue in the game.

I don't want to have what we saw with shotguns and bows, and ending up having them buffed to the point of being ridiculous. This isn't a shooting gallery game.

That being said - even I believe there's something odd going on with the moose on the Siberian map (at least with the cows). They seem to be tanks compared to the North American map.

[CMDR.FREEZER]

A moose, red deer, Jackrabbit.....Mammoth..Dinosaur...what ever.

Should NOT be able to flee at speed for 100+ meters after a shot breaking both front legs and punctures both lungs with two holes in each......Period !!

[Secret Squirrel]

A lot of great points raised here..

Here is but one link of a real life discussion of this.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3106809

It doesn't work IRL the way one might think.

[Solar_Flare]

I think the biggest concern most people have in regards to animals fleeing/ not dropping from lung shots, is not how realistic it is, but how the game treats such shots.
The game wants us to prioritize the "fatal shot". i.e. heart, lungs, spine. For doing this we are rewarded with more cash, quicker harvests and an all around feeling of progress.
It also grades us on such shots, using the integrity/ quick kill/ consecutive harvest breakdown.
This in itself makes people question running animals. If I have never hunted before and I start by shooting animals in the guts, or flesh, the animal runs off. My score, then reflects my bad aim/ poor decisions.
I move on and shoot for the lungs and heart, because that's what is classified as a good kill. when I do this my score doesn't change, the animal continues to run and I still lose that gold or diamond trophy. This causes confusion in the player. I shot it in the leg to stop it running, but it ran off and i was shown this is a bad shot. I shot it in the lungs, it ran off and i'm told that this is a bad shot.
I actually think most problems stem from this, and not the shots themselves. if the animal runs off and dies, but we still recieve good integrity, many concerns would dissapear. Quick kill might have to have a name change to reflect it, call it ethical kill or something along those lines. it would promote good shot placement, but not penalize us for doing the right thing.

[El Turista]

Originally posted by FREEZER:

A Dinosaur..

Should NOT be able to flee at speed for 100+ meters after a shot breaking both front legs

I bet a T-Rex could do.

(Sorry, just kidding ;) )

[El Turista]

Originally posted by Solar_Flare:

I think the biggest concern most people have in regards to animals fleeing/ not dropping from lung shots, is not how realistic it is, but how the game treats such shots.
The game wants us to prioritize the "fatal shot". i.e. heart, lungs, spine. For doing this we are rewarded with more cash, quicker harvests and an all around feeling of progress.
It also grades us on such shots, using the integrity/ quick kill/ consecutive harvest breakdown.
This in itself makes people question running animals. If I have never hunted before and I start by shooting animals in the guts, or flesh, the animal runs off. My score, then reflects my bad aim/ poor decisions.
I move on and shoot for the lungs and heart, because that's what is classified as a good kill. when I do this my score doesn't change, the animal continues to run and I still lose that gold or diamond trophy. This causes confusion in the player. I shot it in the leg to stop it running, but it ran off and i was shown this is a bad shot. I shot it in the lungs, it ran off and i'm told that this is a bad shot.
I actually think most problems stem from this, and not the shots themselves. if the animal runs off and dies, but we still recieve good integrity, many concerns would dissapear. Quick kill might have to have a name change to reflect it, call it ethical kill or something along those lines. it would promote good shot placement, but not penalize us for doing the right thing.

Agree. Both integrity and quick kill are confusing mechanics.

After >580h played I realized that the 3 infamous 100% are not relate to ethics but related to trophy hunting.

I mean, if you're doing a mission an wanted to do it right and w/o problems you should chose a big and confident weapon to down the target. So, if you're no entitled to get 100% integrity on a coyote mission you should chose a .270. a .44...

If you're asked to get a gold you must use, in case of coyote, a proper .243 or a snipe shot with the .223.

You can (I almost always do) get 3x100% an most kills, but really it isn't necessary, and no one told that in game.

Those are weird and bad implemented (and even badly explained) concepts, I think.

Truly there is nothing of ethics involved in this. You can shot 6 birdshots on a poor doe and still get some cash! You can torture a moose with a .22 and still get 2x100% bonuses. Absurd.

[KaiEr]

Originally posted by Solar_Flare:

I think the biggest concern most people have in regards to animals fleeing/ not dropping from lung shots, is not how realistic it is, but how the game treats such shots.
The game wants us to prioritize the "fatal shot". i.e. heart, lungs, spine. For doing this we are rewarded with more cash, quicker harvests and an all around feeling of progress.
It also grades us on such shots, using the integrity/ quick kill/ consecutive harvest breakdown.
This in itself makes people question running animals. If I have never hunted before and I start by shooting animals in the guts, or flesh, the animal runs off. My score, then reflects my bad aim/ poor decisions.
I move on and shoot for the lungs and heart, because that's what is classified as a good kill. when I do this my score doesn't change, the animal continues to run and I still lose that gold or diamond trophy. This causes confusion in the player. I shot it in the leg to stop it running, but it ran off and i was shown this is a bad shot. I shot it in the lungs, it ran off and i'm told that this is a bad shot.
I actually think most problems stem from this, and not the shots themselves. if the animal runs off and dies, but we still recieve good integrity, many concerns would dissapear. Quick kill might have to have a name change to reflect it, call it ethical kill or something along those lines. it would promote good shot placement, but not penalize us for doing the right thing.

You make an excellent point. And I can understand and agree with that 100%, I just think that if they do make a change that it's with the scoring then, to appease that gaming aspect, but not in buffing the weapons to the point where every lung shot drops the animal immediately.

Originally posted by FREEZER:

A moose, red deer, Jackrabbit.....Mammoth..Dinosaur...what ever.

Should NOT be able to flee at speed for 100+ meters after a shot breaking both front legs and punctures both lungs with two holes in each......Period !!

You bring up another good point. You should NOT be able to see what you are talking about... but only because the only time you should see such a shot is if you are using a Mannlicher–Carcano rifle, with a magic bullet, and shooting at a moving target from the Texas Schoolbook Depository.

This would be more along the lines of an issue of people reading too much into the harvest screen.

[Solar_Flare]

Buffing the weapons would be a terrible idea as you say. The weapons already feel just about right for the game. Having the animals run, works as well, because within the game itself there really is no training tips, or walkthroughs.
it would be nice to see perhaps a mission for each gun, or each sub set of weapon, that walks you through the way the gun/ bow should be used, and on what type of critter.
As there is nothing like this ( outside of the gun range) you learn through doing. Thus, chasing an animal on your first few hunts leads you to try alternate methods, such as waiting it out a bit.
when that works, you tend to play more towards that style or "right" way of hunting. it can just take a bit to get there.
The main frustration though is still with the scoring system. if that gets sorted out, a lot of the problems with running animals will dissapear, as people will not mind trailing them, or having them run off in the first place.