12 G shotgun actual penetration tests.

[DanthemanBoone]

In order to help the devs make a realistic reveiw of the poor in game results from the 12g buckshot I have Linked to the real life results of actual penetration tests of 12g birdshot and buckshot.
Roe Deer, Fallow, Blacktail sized animals should all be taken easily with 00 buckshot.
Im Guessing the 12 gage buckshot in game to be 00 buckshot so you will need to scroll down a fair way to find the relevant section. We dont need a massive amount of penetration to make the ingame result more satisfactory.. but at least get us into the organs far enough that a 100% quick kill is possible with a well placed shot inside 30m, more often than not .

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/shotgun-penetration-with-various-rounds/

[AintJaMama (Joe/BrotherBoaz)]

They are not concerned entirely with real life applications as they have stated many times in their streams. They acknowledge that the game is not a simulator and that many decisions are made as balance and design decisions.

I made a post about the damage of buckshot and the loss of integrity for two round of buckshot on some species based on game testing and comparisons to other shotgun rounds and previous shotgun performance, prepatch. Phil, one of the devs, responded that he would share my findings and feedback with the team but that he couldn’t say if/when these concerns will be addressed.

That’s where we stand at the moment. They might have other things taking priority right now. It’s a shame as shotguns are really not much better (in some ways worse) than they were before. But, most players aren’t concerned as the regular loadouts for most maps focus on more guaranteed “long shot” rifles.

[DanthemanBoone]

Im not that worried about real life results either. I just want an application of 12g shotgun buckshot that works to a reasonable level in game.

[sakhlas]

Originally posted by DanthemanBoone:

Im not that worried about real life results either. I just want an application of 12g shotgun buckshot that works to a reasonable level in game.

Yes it's so sad. It would be better if we get the birdshot first(we could rapidly hunt rabbit, duck) then the buckshot. But a good buckshot. In the whole games of the world always buckshot are weak. Why do we have to support that in a hunting game.

[AintJaMama (Joe/BrotherBoaz)]

Right! Buckshot is weak. In game experiences with the tru patch shows this. They are aware and hopefully tweaking it.

@Dan, was just saying the real life stuff as it looked like you were making an appeal there with the link. But, I’m with you and I think the devs are aware as well.

[DanthemanBoone]

@ sakhlas.
The Buckshot works well enough in classic.

[TamponTimmy]

There are many other problems with shotguns.

There is a perk for tracer fire. It does not work. Also pointless as you are always looking straight down the barrel when you shoot. IE you wouldn't see the tracer fire. It is going to drop where your enormous shotgun is covering the screen anyhow.
There is a perk for firing two barrels at once. Do this and you get zero integrity because two buckshots on a deer gives zero integrity. But the perk is bust anyway and there is no way to fire both barrels.
The pump action has stats that say it fires faster than the double barrel. This isn't true. You can fire off faster with the double barrel.
Weirdly if you don't mount a sight, shotguns fire faster when you aim them than when you just 'hipshot' them.

Shotguns are a long way from being usable. Which is a shame. Along with bows, they provide a means to kill every animal in the game with the same weapon so long as you have the ammo types with you. Perfect if you want to remove that massive loud backpack and do some stalking.

[AintJaMama (Joe/BrotherBoaz)]

I agree, that’s the exact reason I wish they were fixed, Tim!

[CaptainNebulous]

https://youtu.be/gIxaKkuutko

[AintJaMama (Joe/BrotherBoaz)]

Yeah, just saw that. Looks like it’s borked for Fallow as I had found for sure.

[AintJaMama (Joe/BrotherBoaz)]

Good on Layton, no go for buckshot on Hirsch.

[DanthemanBoone]

Interesting results on Blacktail and Whitetail. How come you can get 5 into the lungs on a Whitetail at 30 m but only flesh wounds at 17 to 20 m on a Fallow or a Roe .Wish it was working that well on Hirschfeldon.

[CaptainNebulous]

Pretty sure Fallow Deer do have thicker skin than most deer of its size but I'm not sure if that can be the reasoning here

[AintJaMama (Joe/BrotherBoaz)]

Maybe the game’s mechanics rely on individual species data for some of the damage calculations, almost like a durability/hit point type of thing. Someone might not have tweaked those species.

Interesting how Flinter says he really never uses shotguns because there are more reliable weapons at better ranges. This is where most players get locked into playing a .22, Mosin, 7mm, 300/308 loadout chasing for diamonds. I know players will use other weapons but those are the most reliable at range and other weapons don’t offer enough incentives to entice those players.

[CaptainNebulous]

Originally posted by AintJaMama (Joe/BrotherBoaz):

Maybe the game’s mechanics rely on individual species data for some of the damage calculations, almost like a durability/hit point type of thing. Someone might not have tweaked those species.

Interesting how Flinter says he really never uses shotguns because there are more reliable weapons at better ranges. This is where most players get locked into playing a .22, Mosin, 7mm, 300/308 loadout chasing for diamonds. I know players will use other weapons but those are the most reliable at range and other weapons don’t offer enough incentives to entice those players.

One thing I know, if you're sloppy on moose like I am (for some reason this is the most challenging animal in the game to me, even more so than buffalo lol everything else I one shot with ease) then getting withing 75m and nuking them with the 45-70 is a great strategy lol

[TamponTimmy]

It is map specific. Buckshot absolutely does not work on Hirfaschlafen. But go to Park Fernando and buckshot works just fine ... sometimes.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1842858800
So this first shot is perfect. I shot at an axis deer, this thing comes running round the lake at me. I held my nerve, shot it in the chest, one shot and dead.
Perfect. Sure, buckshot isn't meant for buffalo ... but you shoot a buffalo from 11m and its going to do some damage. In this case I got the heart, it dropped dead, exactly the outcome one would expect. I enjoyed killing it. Its like a little mini story of the ambush. Very happy.



Now the shot below is also vital but it is buckshot and it was just me taking an oportunistic shot at a buffalo minding its own business across a body of water. It was micheivous. Naughty even. It died but not quickly, wrong ammo, too far. A fair result too.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1842858852



But here is where things get funky.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1842858906
10m shot as before. 0% quick kill. This thing didn't care that I hit it with a vital shot from just 10m.

Then there is the shot below. straight in the lung ... also from 10m but this time it registers it as flesh. The lung is lit up red but flesh!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1842858932


Then there is the shot below. 8m, right in the lung. doesn't even light the lung up, but calls it flesh.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1842859136


I want to pay particular attention to the hapless creature below.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1842858932
I shot that poor thing 9 times! 9 times, all under 10m and it didn't die. And I kept 100% integrity! I made absolute mince meat of it and it wouldn't die and I had 100 integrity.

And this is the problem. No consistency at all. When I have to shoot a buffalo 9 times at under 10m to kill it, but another I can just single shot kill ...

Shooting a buffalo 9 times is traumatic. Its mooing and thrashing around. Hooves are thundering. I'm shooting, dodging, reloading, shooting again. The tears are rolling down my cheeks. Why won't you die? Please, I want to stop your suffering. Oh Jesus, make it stop. Afterwards, I'm left coated in sweat with a 1000 yard stare. As I gently rock back and forth "you weren't there man, you weren't there! the things I saw. It can change a man!"

So yeah devs, being as most players aren't able to dance with the buffalo like Tampon Timmy, maybe you could look at making sure shots register properly and that when I put 2 good shots at most into a buffalo, it has the good grace to die tidily and not make a scene. And if I have to stick it with a 3rd shot, I'm expecting my integrity to drop because at this point it is certainly suffering as I am blowing chunks of meat off it.


The buffalo below was 6 good shots all under 10m.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1842859136

I had another that took 8 shots.

And then I one shot murdered another with a single lung.