Is Just Cause 3 better than Just Cause 4 ?

[Floowandereeze]

from based review on steam , isee JS3 better than 4
is it true?
let me know about your opinion JS3 vs JS4

[prizim]

Originally posted by dab88:

Originally posted by Olde Coyote:

In my opinion tethering is probably the one big gameplay improvement in JC4.

I would regard it as an improvement if the system to manage load outs was at all accessible. As it stands, I've played JC4 non stop for the passed couple of weeks experimenting and I STILL have no idea what all the grapple combinations actually do! There's no explanation and things do not work as expected. It's frustrating because I just know there's some interesting combos in there somewhere. There has to be :JC4hook:

really? what seems to be the problems? I will answer any questions you have.

[Olde Coyote]

Originally posted by dab88:

I would regard it as an improvement if the system to manage load outs was at all accessible. As it stands, I've played JC4 non stop for the passed couple of weeks experimenting and I STILL have no idea what all the grapple combinations actually do! There's no explanation and things do not work as expected. It's frustrating because I just know there's some interesting combos in there somewhere. There has to be :jc3_grapple::JC4hook:

Yeah, I found it a little frustrating at first because the default configuration is meant to show off the possibilities but trying to grok all the options at once can be overwhelming.

I try to follow an old design question, "What's the simplest thing that could possibly work?" There are 3 slots available to use for whichever category (tether/balloon/rocket) you want. In my case I ignored the F tap/hold complication and set both the A and B slots to tethering using only the automatic column. A is for combat where the fast retracting mod is combined with the pulse mod. This lets me tether an enemy to the ground or a nearby roof or another enemy and watch as they are quickly retracted into a nice sparky explosion that sends the victim(s) sailing off into the sky. I also use it to collide gas or fuel containers for slow-burning explosions. I use the B slot for non-violent tethering by using the deactivate setting (instead of spark), short length, and medium retracting speed. The short length keeps things from smashing together so it can be quickly used to tether a vehicle to a wall and keep it there, or to help a stunt person, or drag an object.

[no1schmo]

It doesn't help that the game doesn't really give you a very good idea of what the unlockable things do before you unlock them. Some of them anyway. Switching them back and forth is a pain too. I found myself doing it by accident. It was nice that they added more grapple options and yet...I don't know how to put it, but I'd rather have a limited tool and a wider variety of situations to use it in than a more widely useful tool but little to do with it. I played around with the unlockable things a little bit, but most of them were gimmicky, or just alternate ways to do the same thing (I also wish the balloons and thrusters didn't require hitting the target twice). I mean, taking way the need to destroy bases sort of makes alot of upgrades nothing but toys to mess around with as opposed to really useful tools to accomplish objectives.

[Olde Coyote]

Originally posted by no1schmo:

It doesn't help that the game doesn't really give you a very good idea of what the unlockable things do before you unlock them. Some of them anyway. Switching them back and forth is a pain too. I found myself doing it by accident....I mean, taking way the need to destroy bases sort of makes alot of upgrades nothing but toys to mess around with as opposed to really useful tools to accomplish objectives.

The mod menus show different short movies giving examples of the mods in action, just as they did in JC3. I really don't know what else the devs could have done to spell things out. As to changing slots by accident, now you know why I changed slot B to non-violent tethering instead of leaving it set to balloons.

On the tools to accomplish objectives issue, as someone here already noted if you go into a fire fight with both the SW9 assault rifle and the SMG-2 submachine gun you've usually got more than enough fire power. Or you can task yourself to see how far you can get in a stealth approach by only using tethering and melee attacks. Tethering can also be used in lots of non-obvious ways. If you're having trouble dealing with those pesky indestructible turrets, for example, you can often use tethering to move an indestructible cargo container to protect yourself or the NPC you're escorting.

Finally, on the subject of bases I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. After a while I found the towns and police stations in JC3 to be boring exercises. The limited objectives in taking down bases in JC4 is a mixed blessing; it makes it easier to progress the story if that's what you want but in return the bases aren't as challenging as in JC3. I have to admit the inability to re-oppress areas in JC4 is a glaring weakness when compared to JC3. As so many times in games you're left wondering if a missing feature is an intentional design flaw, er, choice, or simply that the devs had a prioritized feature list and a limited amount of time. As Rico says, a plan is a list of things that go wrong.

[no1schmo]

Some of the movies are fine; some aren't really clear enough. They just don't have enough info on the limitations of the moves or how they can be used in different circumstances; we get ONE example.

I don't know how that solves the problem of changing slots, unless you set all three loadouts to be identical.

Yeah, that's actually what I prefer; I try to do as much as possible without shooting. Problem is, this game requires more of it; since the objectives are usually to shoot things or hold a position instead of taking the bases apart piece-by-piece, well, that's what I do. The game also included alot more rockets and snipers than previous ones, so spending time trying to tether every incoming vehicle to the side of a building is less feasible. JC3 was a big improvement from 2 in terms of mechanics because you could do so much more with JUST the grapple; now, while you have even more options, the game itself is structured in such a way as to have less to do with it. Sure, you could use the balloons OR just tether a truck to the wall OR attach thrusters to send it flying off; what's really the difference, and do I care when I can just blow it up and be done with it? I don't object to guns existing but, in a way, I sort of want to feel like a superhero with cool abilities and not resort so much to just shooting people in the head, I have 100 other games for that.

I agree that JC3 got very copy-paste with alot of the liberation. I thought 2 was better. Really, if I could bring the mechanics from 3 into 2, I'd play it for another several hundred hours. But anyway, yes, I appreciated the larger, more varied bases in 4, but it doesn't take long before you just stop caring, because it doesn't matter. You don't have to explore the whole base looking for every destroyable thing, you don't have to really learn it, you just zip around from point A to B to C and done. Never even saw half the base, doesn't matter.

[LegoGuru2000]

To each his own but the most common non-bug related complaint I see is the fact that you can't jump into JC4 and play the games campaign without a detailed video guide or document because Avalanche made the huge mistake of over hauling the games progression and so now instead of being a destructive sandbox with paper thin story and missions that are there to just provide things to destroy you have this complicated tactical advancement planning system that has no place in a JC game. If you played JC 2 then with relatively little effort you could hop into JC3 and be having fun in very little time but not with JC4.


If your JC game requires fans to use a guide or how to video then you've F'd up your JC games progression system. JC is not a military sim or even a deep RPG like Fallout; its a damn destruction sandbox and JC4 just threw that out the window and decided to over think everything. There are many guides available detailing the game play loop, what you need to do to progress the story and no JC game should need that . I myself restated 3 times waiting 6-8 months each time in hopes that Avalanche would fix this shift somehow by either changing how progression works or at least giving their customers a better how-to/explanation but they didn't and so many have had to depend on other fans to post their own guides.

Avalanche really did F up JC4 in terms of the campaign. The grappling hook is incredibly awesome and very well done but the rest of the game gets in the way. I really hope the decision makers at Avalanche realize how badly they messed up with these changes and either fired or demoted the person(s) who thought it would be a good idea ti over complicate the JC game play loop.

[no1schmo]

I really am trying hard not to be insulting and rude with my comments here, but what the heck are you talking about? Progression is rock-stupid in this game.

[Olde Coyote]

Originally posted by ed.carden:

To each his own but the most common non-bug related complaint I see is the fact that you can't jump into JC4 and play the games campaign without a detailed video guide or document because Avalanche made the huge mistake of over hauling the games progression and so now instead of being a destructive sandbox with paper thin story and missions that are there to just provide things to destroy you have this complicated tactical advancement planning system that has no place in a JC game. If you played JC 2 then with relatively little effort you could hop into JC3 and be having fun in very little time but not with JC4.

Huh. That takes surprises me. The augmented reality (AR) lens makes your next steps during a JC4 mission even more obvious than they were in JC3. The only advancement issue I can think of is that in JC4 you have to strategically take out regions to avoid running out of squads to secure territories. (I.e., isolating enemy regions can mean conquering them results in a net win on squads and little if any chaos point grinding.) Both JC3 and JC4 require you to conquer most (but not all) of the map to finish the story. Both allow you to completely ignore the story once you're past the tutorial so you can just go around blowing things up as much as you like. But both also have requirements you have to meet before you get the really fun weapons. Finally, both also allow you to steal a sports car and just drive around the map peacefully exploring if that's your thing.

[Olde Coyote]

Originally posted by no1schmo:

Yeah, that's actually what I prefer; I try to do as much as possible without shooting. Problem is, this game requires more of it; since the objectives are usually to shoot things or hold a position instead of taking the bases apart piece-by-piece, well, that's what I do.

There was a silenced pistol available in JC1, but it disappeared after that. I personally love a combat game that gives me a silenced SMG, but JC just isn't that type of game. When Izzy suggests they can take over a mine without firing a shot Rico replies it's not really his style. I don't think the franchise has ever had a crouch action available. When Rick takes off that leather jacket his T-shirt says "Go Loud or Go Home".

That said, stealthily tether-launching a sentry over a cliff's edge never seems to get old for me. There was even an achievement in JC3 for how far you could make an enemy fall to his/her death. I don't think that achievement made it into JC4, alas.

[dab88]

Originally posted by prizim:

really? what seems to be the problems? I will answer any questions you have.

The main problem is things not working as expected or not understanding how the options interact. For instance, what exactly does "pulse" do in every circumstance? Why doesn't the "short" minimum length option not appear to trigger any outcome/response from grapple options. Why, when combining grapple options (e.g. balloon & grapple on same load out) do things not work as expected. It is not an intuitive system and there's no instructions. Shouldn't you be able to, in theory, combing all three mods (balloon, retract and booster) into a some cool combo all in one? I can't get anything to work.

[prizim]

Originally posted by dab88:

Originally posted by prizim:

really? what seems to be the problems? I will answer any questions you have.

The main problem is things not working as expected or not understanding how the options interact. For instance, what exactly does "pulse" do in every circumstance? Why doesn't the "short" minimum length option not appear to trigger any outcome/response from grapple options. Why, when combining grapple options (e.g. balloon & grapple on same load out) do things not work as expected. It is not an intuitive system and there's no instructions. Shouldn't you be able to, in theory, combing all three mods (balloon, retract and booster) into a some cool combo all in one? I can't get anything to work.

pulse just explodes when it reaches its set distance. short means it will retract to HALF length and explode. long means it will extract the full distance of the retractor and explode.

i use balloon and retractor ( i am guessing this is what you meant) all the time. things work as they should for me. maybe you have the mods set incorrect for that loadout?

you can combine all 3 in one loadout.

you can set them to activate using different keys. hold, tap and auto.

if nothing is working my guess is you dont have the correct loadout selected.

[dab88]

pulse doesn't always work when combined with set minimum length. Why? Probably because retraction length doesn't always work as expected. I've encountered at least two sets of circumstance where retraction does NOT go to half way or even full. Explode is a poor word because it's more of an energy that can give momentum - it's the reason the grapple boost on vehicles works otherwise it would be the same as "deactivate on minimum length reach" option. As it's an energy boost, how does it work? You say that I must have the load outs wrong - well, isn't that the point I was making? That they are not intuitive or accessible? You've just describe things as I understand them to be. I'm not stupid. However that understanding has not translated into things happening in-game the way I want or expect. You can blame me for that but the fact remains there's not a deep enough explanation or instruction into what is probably the most flexible and complex mechanic in the game.

[prizim]

Originally posted by prizim:

Originally posted by dab88:

pulse doesn't always work when combined with set minimum length. Why? Probably because retraction length doesn't always work as expected. I've encountered at least two sets of circumstance where retraction does NOT go to half way or even full. Explode is a poor word because it's more of an energy that can give momentum - it's the reason the grapple boost on vehicles works otherwise it would be the same as "deactivate on minimum length reach" option. As it's an energy boost, how does it work? You say that I must have the load outs wrong - well, isn't that the point I was making? That they are not intuitive or accessible? You've just describe things as I understand them to be. I'm not stupid. However that understanding has not translated into things happening in-game the way I want or expect. You can blame me for that but the fact remains there's not a deep enough explanation or instruction into what is probably the most flexible and complex mechanic in the game.

ok i can see you are upset.

i dont have any of the issues you have.

sorry i couldnt help .

[no1schmo]

Originally posted by Olde Coyote:

Originally posted by no1schmo:

Yeah, that's actually what I prefer; I try to do as much as possible without shooting. Problem is, this game requires more of it; since the objectives are usually to shoot things or hold a position instead of taking the bases apart piece-by-piece, well, that's what I do.

There was a silenced pistol available in JC1, but it disappeared after that. I personally love a combat game that gives me a silenced SMG, but JC just isn't that type of game. When Izzy suggests they can take over a mine without firing a shot Rico replies it's not really his style. I don't think the franchise has ever had a crouch action available. When Rick takes off that leather jacket his T-shirt says "Go Loud or Go Home".

That said, stealthily tether-launching a sentry over a cliff's edge never seems to get old for me. There was even an achievement in JC3 for how far you could make an enemy fall to his/her death. I don't think that achievement made it into JC4, alas.

I don't really care about stealth, I just like zipping around the bases, pulling everything over, attaching bad guys to fuel tanks before I cause them to explode, etc. JC4 basically has the same kind of mission structure as many other shooters, you just get alot less time to compensate for your increased mobility.

dab, I sort of agree with you. Not everything is really clear in the description; all you can do is actually play around with things to learn what they actually do.

[Olde Coyote]

Originally posted by dab88:

pulse doesn't always work when combined with set minimum length. Why? Probably because retraction length doesn't always work as expected. I've encountered at least two sets of circumstance where retraction does NOT go to half way or even full. Explode is a poor word because it's more of an energy that can give momentum - it's the reason the grapple boost on vehicles works otherwise it would be the same as "deactivate on minimum length reach" option. As it's an energy boost, how does it work? You say that I must have the load outs wrong - well, isn't that the point I was making? That they are not intuitive or accessible? You've just describe things as I understand them to be. I'm not stupid. However that understanding has not translated into things happening in-game the way I want or expect. You can blame me for that but the fact remains there's not a deep enough explanation or instruction into what is probably the most flexible and complex mechanic in the game.

My intuition may be warped on this; when other kids signed up for wood shop in high school I signed up for electronics. So when I see an electrical explosion from the pulse setting I look for where the energy is coming from. The only thing involved is the tether so I treat it as if it's got a magic battery inside it. You only get a spark if both ends are connected together. Let's say you connect up some jumper cables to your car's battery -- this is a thought experiment, kids, so DON'T try this at home! -- and you move the unattached clips halfway toward each other, nothing happens, right? It's only when the two clips connect that the mayhem happens. That's why when you pulse tether a bad guy to a wall but something's in the way the tether tries and tries to retract and eventually gives up without an explosion.

I've never paid that much attention to the "short" setting (a counter-intuitive label in my book). I've always thought of it simply as the setting you use when you want to avoid smashing things together. As to the different lengths you've observed, I haven't noticed it in the game. I'd hazard a guess that they are based on the game's physics engine. So lightweight things should do most of the moving vs heavier things. A motorcycle is more detoured than the dune buggy it's connected to, etc. As a practical matter I don't really care if the end length is different in one case vs another so long as the two ends aren't smashed together.