Dlc characters need some refinement

[leichenteil]

First, I really like this game and played it for ~200 hours already.

But I'm not completely happy about the dlc chars to tell the truth.

Mech Pilot and Demo seem fine to me.
Probably a little bit on the op side of balance but they are unique and fun to play.

The Alien is definitely unique too but I'd like to see his special ability slightly changed and its health nerfed.
Imo it would be better if every mind controlled person bunches up in the center of the ability cast and all face the same direction.
Would make it way easier to control them.
Giving it 120 starting health seems like a band-aid to make up for the mediocre controls which most likely get you hurt.

The bouncers ability shouldn't cost you health to use or he needs a unique way to replenish it.
I feel like keeping the npc alive is already enough of a health drain.
I don't really get the point of this class except for a challenge maybe.

The Courier looks like fun to me but his rollerscates are honestly more of a downside than helpful.
Would be cool if he would get a ability called "hardbrake" or something like that which makes you stop instantly.
Maybe a little bit more acceleration on top of it, but not much.

And last my biggest offender the goon.
This class has so much potential but in game it is completely bland.
All he got is getting into mostly mission buildings without the owners instantly attacking you.
To do anything useful in those buildings you need a bunch of extra traits you only get if lucky when leveling up.
To make everything even worse his "special" trait is in the common trait pool.
This means you could finish floor 1-1 with any class, be lucky, pick the trait with char lvl 2 and voilà you are basically a goon now.
This class needs a complete rework imo.

Tl;dr

- Mech & Demo fine
- Change Alien, Courier, Bouncer (slightly)
- Rework Goon

[swiftcutter]

I guess I'll throw in my two cents...

Mech Pilot = Really cool idea. I like the Blaster Master feel (the NES game, not the SoR Trait). I wish the mech was a bit bigger, but I've been harping on that since the DLC released and it seems there are some complications there I haven't considered, so maybe it's just not doable. The big quest could get kind of tedious when you have to track down the last few scumbags, but there was a cap added in the most recent update, so that will probably help in that regard.

Courier = Lots of fun. Big quest mechanics might still need some refinement, but I think it's pretty close to good at this point.

Alien = People have complained about the clumsy controls and lack of range when mind-controlling victims, but I think it's appropriate. Don't really have any complaints.

Goon = Yeah, a bit underwhelming compared to the other DLC characters, but I don't think it's necessarily bad to have a simpler character. Their big quest is pretty fun and challenging, at least. I was disappointed that their super special is just Blends in Nicely +.

Demo = Maybe my favorite. Who doesn't like blowing stuff up? Only things I'd like to see (I've brought these up before) are an adjustment of the big quest to make it a bit easier on the early floors, and the ability to select the remote bombs and/or detonator with the mouse wheel.

Bouncer = I've only played this one briefly, so far. I was waiting to see if there would be any adjustments made in the near future. People seem to find him pretty annoying to play as. I like that the musician has a mind of their own sometimes, though. My suggestion would be that instead of the musician making demands and then you having to take them there, they just run off on their own to nearby things that interest them. So they might go to an ATM or a Bartender when you are near one. That way you might have to go out of your way briefly to babysit them, but you don't have to trek all around the map looking for a toilet or whatever. The dev also mentioned they were thinking of having the musician drop items occasionally or do something else useful. Maybe since they are a famous musician they could have some kind of random reverence effect? Or they could make nearby NPCs dance or something.

[DJ]

Demo and Alien are the only ones worth playing IMO. It sounds like the DLC has had a mixed reaction and I think he's working on improvements and bug fixes for it. I don't regret buying it though, 6 bucks for 2 characters + supporting an amazing dev is worth it imo. Better then getting starbucks with that money.

[ausfo55]

The Alien is really strong at the higher levels despite his handicaps. You can mind control groups of mobsters and make them commit mass suicide by standing on train tracks. You can use super cops to assassinate people. The mind control ability has unlimited uses and recharges quicker than the dizzy status effect so if you need you can kite victims from one spot to another.

[Papa Canis]

My only wish is that mind-controlling for the alien feels more like controlling a player character. Requiring to aim with the NPC's rotation instead of the position of your mouse feels super weird, especially with guns.

[leichenteil]

Originally posted by swiftcutter:

Goon = Yeah, a bit underwhelming compared to the other DLC characters, but I don't think it's necessarily bad to have a simpler character. Their big quest is pretty fun and challenging, at least. I was disappointed that their super special is just Blends in Nicely +.

Demo = Maybe my favorite. Who doesn't like blowing stuff up? Only things I'd like to see (I've brought these up before) are an adjustment of the big quest to make it a bit easier on the early floors, and the ability to select the remote bombs and/or detonator with the mouse wheel.

I don't mind simpler characters aswell but goon doesn't have anything going for him.
I finished a bartender run yesterday and got the wrong building perk at character lvl 2.
This basically made the bartender a way better goon than goon itself.
Imo this is a problem.
The only thing which might be good is, if you get the class solidarity perk.
But I couldn't/ didn't want to test this yet.

Demo, on the other hand, is my favorite too.
And I agree that the big quest could use some adjustment.
50 destroyed walls for slums seems more reasonable imo.

[OmegaDestroyer]

I *HATE* the bouncer

1. 15-level escort quest. Barf.

2. Musician does nothing to contribute to personal welfare, despite visiting dealers and shops all the time. Why can't he buy a regenerate health syringe or a bulletproof vest?

3. Musician can turn hostile on the player, forcing the player to run away, kill him, or watch NPCs kill him.

4. Even after resurrection, loyal NPCs will still attempt to murder the musician. The idiot died 4 times in my last run due to loyal mobsters in Uptown. I spent a LOT of health resurrecting that fool just to see him get killed over and over.

5. You can fail a big quest multiple times a level.

6. Stomp. A dizzy grenade that costs 10 hp to use and is on a cool down. Even with its upgrade that adds 10 damage, the skill is very poor.

7. No incentive to explore. Due to the poor mechanics of the musician, there is little reason to explore a level. You risk getting the idiot killed or being nagged to death to get him to X. The only silver-lining is that you can at least teleport with the musician.

7. Character does not make sense conceptually. A total nitpick but the character is a bodyguard, not a bouncer. He's not bouncing out undesirables from an establishment.

8. Character is simply not fun to play. The only reason I'm [laying him is that I want to unlock all big quests. Once done, I will never, ever touch the character again. It's sad, too, because the other DLC characters are fun to play as. Demo destroys things, Mech Pilot is Robocop, Courier zips around the stage, and the Alien has Mind Control. Even the Goon, with all of his issues, is still fun to play. But the bouncer? Not in the least.

[DylanMiner007]

My big issue with the bodyguard is that when the musician wants something, you can usually just teleport to it if you've explored the level enough. This makes their tasks more of an annoyance than a challenge, just taking you out of the action for 20 seconds while you teleport to an atm/bartender/etc. and wait for the musician to finish interacting. The class would be so much better if you could give the musician commands like a normal follower (attack, stand guard), because you still have the electro tether vest, so you wouldn't be able to just keep the musician out of danger by leaving them at the elevator. You could balance this by having to defend the musician from assassins, with a warning (The musician could say "I feel like someone's watching us". Or instead of assassins, the musician is a jerk and will randomly insult people and get into fights. One more thing: stomp should only affect hostile enemies, it 1. feels weird as an ambush attack, and 2. I hate angering nearby bystanders trying to stun one guy.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by OmegaDestroyer:

6. Stomp. A dizzy grenade that costs 10 hp to use and is on a cool down. Even with its upgrade that adds 10 damage, the skill is very poor.

Except for the fact that a dizzy grenade can stun you too, it is thrown, not centered on you, you can miss with it entirely, list goes on.
I won Bouncer on the first run, and I had War Zone on 1-3 to discourage me and get my morale down. You just have to adjust to the fact that you're a bodyguard. You go to the mission places, you get the musician what he needs, you get out. You don't just dilliy dally on the floor on your own, you have someone you got to look on to. Give him items, like a melee weapon and a bulletproof vest + a hard hat. ♥♥♥♥ up people who try to get at your associate. This is why you're a damn strong fighter.

[marharols]

Originally posted by leichenteil:

First, I really like this game and played it for ~200 hours already.

But I'm not completely happy about the dlc chars to tell the truth.

Mech Pilot and Demo seem fine to me.
Probably a little bit on the op side of balance but they are unique and fun to play.

The Alien is definitely unique too but I'd like to see his special ability slightly changed and its health nerfed.
Imo it would be better if every mind controlled person bunches up in the center of the ability cast and all face the same direction.
Would make it way easier to control them.
Giving it 120 starting health seems like a band-aid to make up for the mediocre controls which most likely get you hurt.

The bouncers ability shouldn't cost you health to use or he needs a unique way to replenish it.
I feel like keeping the npc alive is already enough of a health drain.
I don't really get the point of this class except for a challenge maybe.

The Courier looks like fun to me but his rollerscates are honestly more of a downside than helpful.
Would be cool if he would get a ability called "hardbrake" or something like that which makes you stop instantly.
Maybe a little bit more acceleration on top of it, but not much.

And last my biggest offender the goon.
This class has so much potential but in game it is completely bland.
All he got is getting into mostly mission buildings without the owners instantly attacking you.
To do anything useful in those buildings you need a bunch of extra traits you only get if lucky when leveling up.
To make everything even worse his "special" trait is in the common trait pool.
This means you could finish floor 1-1 with any class, be lucky, pick the trait with char lvl 2 and voilà you are basically a goon now.
This class needs a complete rework imo.

Tl;dr

- Mech & Demo fine
- Change Alien, Courier, Bouncer (slightly)
- Rework Goon

Mech Demo are fine.
Alien is like Shapshifter, little finiky but good.
Bouncers abilty is something i rarely used.
Courier is fine, if you run past enimies and hit them he is pretty good.
Goon is bland and is not really fun.

[leichenteil]

Originally posted by Papz:

Courier is fine, if you run past enimies and hit them he is pretty good.

This made me actually laugh when discovering it.
I still think normal movement is far superior when it comes to meele combat.

[swiftcutter]

I actually had a pretty good time playing as the goon. I think his big quest goes a long way toward making him fun to play, and it can be helpful in getting you allies, cash, and scavenged weaponry.

Class Solidarity is indeed pretty nice for him, though supergoons are technically a different class, so it loses its usefulness in the late game (unless you have the super special and become a supergoon, yourself).

[leichenteil]

Originally posted by swiftcutter:

I actually had a pretty good time playing as the goon. I think his big quest goes a long way toward making him fun to play, and it can be helpful in getting you allies, cash, and scavenged weaponry.

Class Solidarity is indeed pretty nice for him, though supergoons are technically a different class, so it loses its usefulness in the late game (unless you have the super special and become a supergoon, yourself).

I would like goon more if Wrong Building was a class specific perk no one else can get.
And to me it would make sense to give him class solidarity on top of it.
As you say, it's only good until you hit downtown.
Pistol is a good starting item but a little bit boring and cheap to get from the soldier.
Seems like there is a lot of room for improvements.

[VBro96]

I paid & downloaded the dlc and still couldn't get any access

[DJ]

Originally posted by LightbringerVirgo:

I paid & downloaded the dlc and still couldn't get any access

You could get better help by starting a new thread

[Fluffy]

The dlc characters are nice&all but the Bouncer annoys me the absolute most.
At one point i was at 5-3 and supercops agro'd to the Musician for no reason, killing him at the very start (as soon as we teleport in).
At random other times, 2-3 vampires would feed on him at the same time, quickly draining his health and sometimes instakilling'em before i can even react.
If the Musician at least had player level of health or double for how often he gets injured, it would help alot more. He also seems to not be affected by the trait that raises follower health.
The ability is really fun to use, since you can't die by it. But it shouldn't cost 10 health. Instead, maybe a cooldown to prevent people from just spamming it in coop while someone else kills everything for you.