Streets of Rogue

Streets of Rogue

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Pixel Peeper May 4, 2020 @ 11:27pm
Unlocking rewards is bad?
While I have become Mayor a few times, I haven't played the game that much yet and I'm still figuring things out.

One thing that is highly puzzling... unlocking new items and traits increases the number of items and traits that you're forced to have in the pool. You can disable some of them but, ultimately, the more you have unlocked, the more you're forced to have in the pool.

Wouldn't you be better off only unlocking the items and traits that you want to see?

I'm considering starting a new save and deliberately not unlocking the rewards so that I stop having so many useless trait options when I level up and stop getting garbage items as rewards.

Edit:

No one seems to understand my concern, so please ignore the post.

For those who might actually share my concern with the minimum number of slots being raised when unlocking things, there's a workaround. The game allows multiple save files (you just have to reconfigure everything on each new file) so you can simply start over and only unlock traits that you want to see appear on your list (stealth ones, for example). When you want to play other types of characters (one with followers, for example), you can simply start another save file and unlock follower traits and items instead of stealth ones.

It sounds like a lot of work but it's not that bad. I just started a new save and, after a very short run and a rather long one, I've already got seven new classes unlocked and 44 nuggets. With only a fraction of talents and items needing to be unlocked on each save, you can get everything you want in a reasonable amount of time. It's just a bit of hassle to have to switch saves.
Last edited by Pixel Peeper; May 6, 2020 @ 3:28am
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Showing 16-30 of 72 comments
Pixel Peeper May 5, 2020 @ 9:15pm 
Originally posted by khuaqualla:
So, I'm the only one who sees the irony of someone calling unlocking traits bad as a title, and they mention a trait they like and have unlocked. They possibly also complain they don't get a character exclusive - in other words only available for characters who already start with it - trait as an in-game reward.

I'm not entirely sure the interpretation of my title as an absolute statement rather than a general comment on how unlocking traits is often detrimental would be a constructive thing to post about, but I'm sure you had some reason for doing it.

Concerning your second sentence, I have no clue what you're talking about.
khuaqualla May 5, 2020 @ 9:17pm 
You can't get charismatic unless you already are charismatic at the start.
Pixel Peeper May 5, 2020 @ 9:47pm 
Originally posted by khuaqualla:
You can't get charismatic unless you already are charismatic at the start.

The only time I mentioned Charismatic was when talking about my character's starting traits. You might have also noticed it's not among the traits I said I was interested in seeing appear in my level up options.

I realize some traits can only be taken at character creation and I'm fine with that.
leichenteil May 6, 2020 @ 12:46am 
I've read all your posts and I'm sorry to say but this seems like a git gud issue.
If you can't see the value of most perks you need to learn more about the game.

Originally posted by Tripoteur Ventripotent:
My current plan is to start over (the game's super easy so I can get class unlocks again) but only unlock a few select traits.

This especially seems super weird.
So your plan is basically to restart every time you play a different class.
Because I can assure you that soldier, for example, needs a completely different perk list than doctor.
Good luck with that...
Last edited by leichenteil; May 6, 2020 @ 12:50am
Pixel Peeper May 6, 2020 @ 12:57am 
Originally posted by leichenteil:
I've read all your posts and I'm sorry to say but this seems like a git gud issue.
If you can't see the value in most perks you need to learn more about the game.

Originally posted by Tripoteur Ventripotent:
My current plan is to start over (the game's super easy so I can get class unlocks again) but only unlock a few select traits.

This especially seems super weird.
So your plan is basically to restart every time you play a different class.
Because I can assure you that soldier, for example, needs a completely different perk list than doctor.
Good luck with that...

How is it a "git gud" issue? This game is stupid easy.

Once again, I know that most traits have their use. But even if a trait is excellent, that doesn't mean I want it on my list. Maybe it has no use for that particular character, maybe I think it's OP, maybe I just won't be using the particular strategy that it supports. In any case, the more traits you're forced to have in the pool, the less reliably you can get the traits that you want.

I don't need to restart every time I want to play a different class, I can just unlock a few key traits and leave the ones I don't ever intend on using. For example, I don't usually like having followers in video games, and that means there's a whole lot of traits I don't need to unlock.

Besides, I could simply have a different save file for different trait unlocks. It's just inconvenient that the game would force players to mess around with files when it could simply keep the minimum trait pool small.

At this point I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot, and it seems like every one of my responses are to posts that have zero relevance to the subject.
Misery May 6, 2020 @ 1:15am 
Originally posted by leichenteil:
I've read all your posts and I'm sorry to say but this seems like a git gud issue.
If you can't see the value of most perks you need to learn more about the game.

Aye, I agree.

There's seriously no need to trim the list down so far. Big Bullets may need a bit of a fix, but other than that... everything has a use. After all, even when playing with the same class, the SITUATION can be different, so you may have reason to make different choices on different playthroughs. It's the same with items. They're all good. But you make decisions based on the situation and what you already have. There's a bazillion ways to create a strong build for any character.

How is it a "git gud" issue? This game is stupid easy.

Er.... if you're playing the game by only allowing the "perfect" traits/items for the build you want to create from the beginning, then your perception of the game's difficulty is probably a bit off.

Turn everything on after unlocking everything, and THEN start beating the game every time, regardless of chosen character, and you might be in a position to say it's "stupid easy". After all, a game like this isnt balanced around having "perfect" builds every bloody run.

And even then, it's possible to keep ramping up the difficulty via mutators.

The reason people keep saying things like "git gud", is because once you HAVE gotten good... you find that you dont need to have only incredibly specific traits/items to create a really strong character. And you'll actually learn that traits/items you THINK arent useful, actually really are. I mean, that's the case in any game in this genre, but it's relevant to Streets of Rogue more than any, since the game HEAVILY rewards creativity and improvisation.


Again, it's your game, you can and should play it how you want to (the point is to have fun, after all), but there's reasons why everyone is reacting to your posts the way they are (we're not trying to be rude or anything, just to be clear). Particularly considering the sorts of players that games in this genre tend to attract. The RNG and the need to improvise and make tough decisions are typically one of the attractive points about games like this. So for many fans, the idea of mostly removing that RNG and that need to improvise will be rather baffling.

I mean, it's like if you were playing Binding of Isaac, and turned off 500 freaking items just to make the god-tier items appear every single run and that's it. You CAN play it that way (mods and all), but most fans would be baffled, and will ask: What's the point? Where's the challenge/fun? That's where alot of this is coming from.

Sorry, I dont mean to be so rambly here, but I'm very bad at being concise.
leichenteil May 6, 2020 @ 2:11am 
Originally posted by Tripoteur Ventripotent:
Besides, I could simply have a different save file for different trait unlocks. It's just inconvenient that the game would force players to mess around with files when it could simply keep the minimum trait pool small.

You are playing a roguelike.
I don't know if you have experience in this genre, but any other roguelike I played did give the player way less control over what stuff they get.
Usually none at all.
The genre is just like that.
If you don't like it, this kind of game probably isn't for you.
PsychoDino May 6, 2020 @ 2:56am 
Originally posted by Tripoteur Ventripotent:
While I have become Mayor a few times, I haven't played the game that much yet and I'm still figuring things out.

One thing that is highly puzzling... unlocking new items and traits increases the number of items and traits that you're forced to have in the pool. You can disable some of them but, ultimately, the more you have unlocked, the more you're forced to have in the pool.

Wouldn't you be better off only unlocking the items and traits that you want to see?

I'm considering starting a new save and deliberately not unlocking the rewards so that I stop having so many useless trait options when I level up and stop getting garbage items as rewards.
you can disable them
Pixel Peeper May 6, 2020 @ 3:12am 
Originally posted by Misery:
Er.... if you're playing the game by only allowing the "perfect" traits/items for the build you want to create from the beginning, then your perception of the game's difficulty is probably a bit off.

I don't care all that much about optimizing power, I mostly care about optimizing fun. A lot of the traits simply don't do anything. A sucky trait is totally fine if it's one that I'll enjoy playing with, too.

But if that trait never shows up because the list is filled with boring/useless traits, then leveling up does nothing.

Originally posted by PsychoDino:
you can disable them

Only down to the minimum number of traits, which is raised when you unlock new traits. Which means a whole lot of useless and boring traits cannot be disabled.
Pixel Peeper May 6, 2020 @ 3:19am 
Originally posted by leichenteil:
You are playing a roguelike.
I don't know if you have experience in this genre, but any other roguelike I played did give the player way less control over what stuff they get.
Usually none at all.
The genre is just like that.
If you don't like it, this kind of game probably isn't for you.

First things first, this is NOT a Roguelike. It's an action game and not turn-based, it's not tile-based, and the permanent progression isn't purely horizontal, it's quite a bit vertical.

While I like Roguelikes quite a lot, one trait I've always greatly disliked (fortunately not inherent to the genre) is that some of them force you into a certain build, one that the player might dislike. The player having to adapt to certain random elements is totally fine, but there's a point where the player stops playing the game and the game starts playing the player. That's not good.
khuaqualla May 6, 2020 @ 6:59am 
Originally posted by Tripoteur Ventripotent:
Originally posted by khuaqualla:
You can't get charismatic unless you already are charismatic at the start.

The only time I mentioned Charismatic was when talking about my character's starting traits. You might have also noticed it's not among the traits I said I was interested in seeing appear in my level up options.

I realize some traits can only be taken at character creation and I'm fine with that.
Well, you mentioned 3 traits you like, other 3 you sort of like, and the rest either as you don't need or dom't like.

If you already start with the traits you actually care about, and don't need ones that help with combat, then whatever appears should be okay for you. You don't need Endurance, because you don't get injured enough time to need healing traits. You don't need melee, because you use a tranquilizer gun. You don't need firearms, because the tranquilizer knocks people out in 10 seconds regardless of your skill. The only thing you sort of probably need is the speed stat. Anything else you get will either make you sad or won't make you happy.
Pixel Peeper May 6, 2020 @ 4:39pm 
Even on this particular character, there are six traits (and the upgraded versions of some of them) that I would like to see appear on my list, though. It's just that with 26 traits in the pool, 20 of which I don't want to see, and with some of those bad/boring/useless ones showing again after being taken once... I don't usually get to see the ones that I want.

Level ups are usually a "you get nothing, better luck next time" kind of deal. That sucks.
Smakit May 6, 2020 @ 8:13pm 
Hard to tell with such a small sample size as this, but I think you are in the minority here. That said, I can understand wanting to play a game how you want, so I'm glad you found the work around of using multiple saves. It is a bit of a inconvenience as you say, but at least for your particular unorthodox style of playing, it lets you do what you want.

After adding so many more traits, he did give us the ability to trim the fat a bit, so I think that suits most people just fine as a sort of balance. Getting a bigger chance of useful traits without streamlining it to make it too easy.

I'm all for the randomization myself and tend to leave them all on. Most of the time there is something that at least benefits me in some way, even if it isn't ideal, but there are times when none seem to be what I want - but I like that.

Whatever the case, glad you are enjoying the game again!
khuaqualla May 6, 2020 @ 8:37pm 
Well, if you want to upgrade those traits, just go to an augmentation booth. If you are playing as efficiently as you claim, you should have the money, because otherwise you would need economic traits like shop drops and trust funder.

The reason why you rarely see green traits, is because they don't appear in the list every level up. So even if you could magically dumb down the list to the 3 traits you actually like, you would just get attributes.
Pixel Peeper May 6, 2020 @ 8:56pm 
Well, that's certainly another reason why I'm never seeing the traits that I want.

I have indeed been spending almost all my money at augmentation booths. I don't really buy anything ever (aside from Tranq gun refills) so I do have loads of money laying around, at least on this character.

For characters with higher expenses, well... I guess they'll just have to be lucky at level up. At this point I'm thinking it's necessary to simply start with the traits you want anyway, because you're just not going to get them via leveling up.

It also makes leveling up useless, which means I have been grossly overestimating the Super Studious trait and have been wasting time and taking unnecessary risk going after nonquest loot.

Right now I believe that the proper way to play this game is to consider that experience is useless. Character level does not yield any benefits.
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Date Posted: May 4, 2020 @ 11:27pm
Posts: 74