Colonial Bias in some ways (mostly map)

[Ardail]

Before you jump in and yell how it's actually WARDEN BIAS hear me out and plz let me know if any collie mains have similar struggles with warden stuff not here to cry and whine about collie bias game bad, but there are some very clear advantages. it's hard to balance games and both sides should have clear "unfair" advantages to create faction tactics. Gives each side some personality rather then mirrors

The biggest advantage is map layout, since the game is more about logistics then any specific weapon being slightly better
Abandon wards is heavily in colonial favor, being the center of the map can dictate how the flanks go, and since there are 4 safe house/strong houses north before you even get stuck at the bridge battle vs none facing south
Plus the only rail way in is from the south so the warehouse is a lot less useful to wardens. I feel like Deadlands needs to be re balanced to have the extend to both sides of the river with safe houses on either side plus 2 rail bridges in. Also would make the "main" war city of foxhole even more big/important

The other major advantage the collies get is the great wall, the wall is an insane advantage since you can't shoot over it like you can the trench. Makes thunderfoot and Baronhome crazy strongholds (do collies have similar crazy hard locations to siege in warden lands?) Plus the baths is an actual self sufficient fortress. The seaport located on the island makes it one of the strongest points on the map to contest everything around it even if totally surrounded, water ways offer logi in and out
Are there any warden towns that give collies a similar struggle to siege down?


Maybe to still give each faction personality have weather effects be more acute the more north/south you go? so snow is harsher the further north you go? With warden parkas being buffed to match vs collie rain gear being significantly better in harsh rains of the south? Give each side a clear advantage but one that only takes effect deep in each other's territory idk just spitballing ideas

Overall I don't feel the balance is so out of balance that the game isn't fun. Especially equipment, for the most part weapons balance out due to their niches creating unique tactics
but there are certainly some clear map advantages the collies get and a small handfull of infantry kit weapons IMO feel like the wardens don't have something that feels equally as useful to balance against

Maybe I'm totally wrong, but as far as the map goes I really don't see similar struggles the collies face. But I'd love to hear from an opposing veteran

This game is always evolving so I hope this sparks genuine discussion not just a cross faction pissing contest claiming everything is bias

[Ardail]

oh also forgot early logi in reaching trail vs the great march
the roads in the reaching trail are such a mess, lots of hills extremely harsh central landlocked logi zone to push supplies to deadlands early game vs great march

made a massive difference on a charlie war rushing as fast as possible with a small team to build a rail line from brodytown to the spine in deadlands, pretty much allowed us to steamroll since logi could flow out of our central hub much easier.
while it seems to flow quite a lot smoother out of umbral/great march


Which is clear to see by the results of this war since the center has been the strongest point of the war and generally if clans push the center strong early war give a lot power for colonials to push neighboring regions since deadlands is easier to hold south side of the river

[Dire]

As a player with 2,700+ hours on this game, that has played colonial for many years, and now Warden for a couple of years and going, I'll give my thoughts out on this.

The Wardens ultimately have a better map layout due to the mountainous terrain. Warden mountains provide multiple layers of protection which do a better job than the bulwark. If a Colonial breaches one mountain gap, they'll have to breach through another or more to get into the Warden back line.

The Colonials have a single layer of wall with multiple gaps in it (The Bulwark). All a Warden needs to do is breach a single gap and now he'll have good access to the colonial back line. In a hypothetical situation let's say every single gap in the bulwark has been built up by colonial players. Even then, there's still an exploitable way to get through the bulwark which has been attempted to be patched out but not successfully yet AFAIK.

Water logistics

Colonials have superior water logistics
- Colonials can get water logi to their mid line regions such as UW and conveniently through AW due to UW waterway.
- Wardens can't get water logi into Callahans passage conveniently. In addition getting water logi into AW usually won't work due to Colonials holding Fort Duncan.

Roads
Colonials have superior roads
Self explanatory.

I agree AW needs a remake

[Grace]

The map favours the Colonials. You know all those mountains in the North?

They were never designed with railways in mind. You can have a proper defensive base that might actually be able to hold, or a factory, or a railway. There is not enough space on most of the map for all three in many warden mountain areas.

It's fine to talk about layered defence, but when you cannot build bunkers that actually hold in so many of those mountains, give me the Bulwark any day. Also this war is a case in point: 43 days in, and the Wardens have not come close to breaching the Bulwark. The Collies breached the mountains in under 2 days.

Oh and the Moors ... what a gloriously rubbish hex, with huge trenches criss-crossing it to prevent you building things, but letting enemy run along the trenches in hard cover to climb out right next to your town hall. Amazingly bad.

It's not all roses on Colonial side of the map though, the devs over-use of cream coloured stone walls in many towns and cities means making a bunker base network is almost impossible. Like trees and shrubs in Mercy's Wish, come on Devs, why can we not remove these decorations or at least place connectors underneath them in the same way that we can connect under a road? Also ... the stupid small crates and such that large trains catch on if they reverse past them.

The map is literally made for the old game, before light rail, heavy rail, and the need for more bunkers because howis got a health penalty. Not to mention that on many island hexes, even with a "protected" inner harbour, there is no-where to build a dry dock to repair your ships, because the drydock is wider than the old channels.

A new map? Yes please. And maybe just for once, don't have stupid random shallow areas for no reason that gunboats etc get stuck on.

[Ardail]

Originally posted by Dire:

As a player with 2,700+ hours on this game, that has played colonial for many years, and now Warden for a couple of years and going, I'll give my thoughts out on this.

The Wardens ultimately have a better map layout due to the mountainous terrain. Warden mountains provide multiple layers of protection which do a better job than the bulwark. If a Colonial breaches one mountain gap, they'll have to breach through another or more to get into the Warden back line.

The Colonials have a single layer of wall with multiple gaps in it (The Bulwark). All a Warden needs to do is breach a single gap and now he'll have good access to the colonial back line. In a hypothetical situation let's say every single gap in the bulwark has been built up by colonial players. Even then, there's still an exploitable way to get through the bulwark which has been attempted to be patched out but not successfully yet AFAIK.

Water logistics

Colonials have superior water logistics
- Colonials can get water logi to their mid line regions such as UW and conveniently through AW due to UW waterway.
- Wardens can't get water logi into Callahans passage conveniently. In addition getting water logi into AW usually won't work due to Colonials holding Fort Duncan.

Roads
Colonials have superior roads
Self explanatory.

I agree AW needs a remake

AW would be balanced out with safe houses north and south of the river with the train lines going in north and south to allow logi in more securely for either side

I'd say saltbrook is a similar situation but warden favor, but being so far out and near the coast makes it not as threatening to own as a strong center position. Also easy access to sea landing flanking as seen in this war 117 with "Tiawan Island"

Ya similar issues with terrain in Hoi4, flat open lands are usually more wealthy, but when a breakthrough happens it can be a lot more dramatic due to more open ground
while a rough land is defensive it make it hard to develop, so trade off there.

But appreciate the insight as a veteran colonial player, guess we just have to weigh if the logistical advantage of better roads is counterbalanced fairly by poor roads/terrain being a bit more defensive

out of curiosity is there any warden weapons you always go for when you find them? I tend to always switch out my fiddler for a lionclaw or if I can find grenade launchers/30mm cannons is a good day as infantry

[Hammer Of Evil]

whatever the op is complaining about for colonial, just seems preferential.

if the op prefers colonial map layouts better, there's a pretty simple solution to that, just pick colonial.

I think further participation on forums is largely going to fall on deaf ears, very few of you want a discussion, just a place to vent your anger.

also, enjoy the rocket.

[Morkha ||]

Only devs knows, only devs got the real numbers, even more for asymetrical balance.
The advantages are on purpose;
because of the lore
because of the diversity in gameplay between the two factions
because one of the two have more players,
because one of the two have better tanks
because one of the two have better grenades
because one of the two have better boats,
.........

...We will never knows why all the choises have been made,
But maybe you need to step back a little ?
I mean, this war is about to be one of the longest, so they are not so far off the balance are'nt they ?

I rather would let them cook new content instead of purchase an ideal balance that will never exsist unless with boring mirror factions on a boring mirror map
As long there is nothing to far out and the game is still fun, what's the point, you can change to Colo or Warden anyway.

[Ardail]

totally missing the point being made but cool, reading comprehension is hard I guess

[_Clag_]

I don't like the direction the game has gone.

Foxhole should have stuck with focusing on land battles. The devs are building everything around it without actually considering the core. This whole community has been built on playing land battles for years, there's not enough focus on the things that brought people into the game in the first place.

Not long ago did foxhole used to just be walls everywhere. Now it's just a new coat of paint and call it quits.