Why the Collies should always win is actually the map.

[Grace]

Quite simply, the map has not been updated to reflect the new updates. Until the devs do this, the Collies should win every war - when they do not, it really is a skill issue on their part.

Why?

The Collies get multiple hexes defended by the great wall, which means that other than ship landings in very limited places, if Collies build competent bases in the few gaps in the wall, Warden partisans cannot get to most of the Collie industry. Perfect industrial base, does not even get snow.

The Wardens in contrast have no-build open corridors Collies can drive though to hit anywhere they want, and for 7 of the 8 weeks of this war, they have been doing just that. Add in snow freezing the rivers and lakes so that there are even fewer defendible choke points, and collie partisans can and have obliterated a huge amount of Warden player industry.

Good for them, but actually very bad for the game. Notice how only one side seems to have artillery and endless ammo?

Add in flamethowers and the trusty Collie jeep that works when repaired to just over 45%, and any heavy machine gun to take out foxholes, and the Warden team's bunkers and factories burn, and keep on burning over and over all war.

That creates two problems. The first is one side has effectively infinite logistics, which encourages very poor play. Using a battle tank as a mine clearer is just cringe, no matter whose team it is on. Come on, respect your crafters' time commitment guys. Gas spam, arty spam, and tank spam ... mean that yes, it really is a skill issue the Collies didn't win this war weeks ago.

The second is that this game is designed around battles between defended locations and attackers who need to build forward bases and really put in some effort to overcome the defenders. That is when this game shines, and when there are fun battles that instantly lead to 10+ player ques - people actually want to play, fight, and win. But when the bunker bases and factories are all burnt down at 3am, there is less chance for a fun battle. There is literally just hours of PvE ahead of you, indeed at this point the Collies have 1-2 weeks of mindless PvE to win. Or not win, if they keep skill-issuing their way to engineer certain victory into defeat. Wouldn't be their first time at that, either.

How badly out of date the map is can be seen looking at even the fences. In the South, wooden fences can be broken with a tank and you can build nice BBs, rails etc. In the North, stone fences block all that, meaning many cities and towns are literally indefensible, particularly when the town hall is right at the back of the city so its AI radius does not even cover the whole town. Looking at you, Solas Gorge. Or the town hall is right next to a beach, so it is impossible to miss with gunboats ... like Mercy's Wish. And has no coastal gun, like Fermior.

The map also means things like Collie 150mm guns in Overlook can shell Lochan Berth, but Warden 150mm don't have the range to shoot back. So yes, with Collies having longer range guns, better tanks (4 players in 2 knock off KV1s are better than the same players in 1 BT, and you can get a lot more than 2 for the cost of a BT - do the math), better hand grenades, grenade launchers that can fire further than collie rifles, and no snow, yeah the map actually does mean that the Collies, with the current build, really should win every war. And they are 4/4 lately, and heading for 5/5.

Oh and for the record? BTs really are a waste of time, energy and resources. So are trains for Wardens, because the only place to put rails in most cities is so stupid that they screw up truck based gameplay.

Want to look at completely stupid map design? Brodytown, with the concrete crap blocking the refinery, road, and far, far too few roads for such a city.

Seriously, it's like the devs have never actually played Warden. They definitely do play Collie, after all they drop snowstorms on Warden defenders that lift the moment the Collies start attacking. They certainly have never played city-building games or their "city" roads would not be so ... rubbish.

Oh and the whole "fighting through a city" gameplay design? Dead with artillery scorched buildings. Devs, if you want us to have fun city fights ... a hell of a lot more buildings need to never die to artillery. Like, you know, all of them. Currently, Warden cities are just ♥♥♥♥ to build in and are lost with two 150mm guns firing shells until one or two collie tanks drive up to finish it off. Unless of course they just burn at 3 am, or fall down due to lack of maintenance (which is still way too costly).

All in all ... I like this game, but it is *so bad* now. New map, scrap fire, make 150 arty have the same range, reduce that range for both sides, and cut the deflection bonuses on collie tanks - they have too much armour currently, so with both yes they are better than BTs, which are so slow you can literally lay mines for them before they lumber to you.

[Grace]

For the best "DERP" element of the map design ... please consider the railway stations in towns. You know, the ones *you cannot build railways to* because they have stone fences where the rails should be.

Seriously Devs ... fix the map, or this game will keep sliding into "yeah I played that once, was fun for a couple days" territory.

[Foxy]

If you want people to listen to what you think are your legitimate concerns, maybe don't intersperse them with "lmao collies are so bad for not winning already".

Most of your arguments are like, years out of date anyway. Map design has always favoured the north in a north v south, pushing uphill in Foxhole is very hard and the bulwark literally ends in Westgate and Allod's, so you can just sail around it.

The best defence is defence in depth, so the terrain in places like Marban Hollow and Callahan's Passage is insanely powerful for defenders, with multiple narrow mountain passed that reduce attacking numbers down to nothing. I just don't think you understand map design in Foxhole all too well honestly.

[HEX: SOLO QUEUE]

Originally posted by Foxy:

If you want people to listen to what you think are your legitimate concerns, maybe don't intersperse them with "lmao collies are so bad for not winning already".

Most of your arguments are like, years out of date anyway. Map design has always favoured the north in a north v south, pushing uphill in Foxhole is very hard and the bulwark literally ends in Westgate and Allod's, so you can just sail around it.

The best defence is defence in depth, so the terrain in places like Marban Hollow and Callahan's Passage is insanely powerful for defenders, with multiple narrow mountain passed that reduce attacking numbers down to nothing. I just don't think you understand map design in Foxhole all too well honestly.

Literally every one of their posts is "Warden good, Collie bad" or variations on the theme "Warden weak, Collie OP". It's some of the most asinine one-note tripe I've seen anywhere; stuck on repeat.

[POPO Sandh]

I don't understand this when wardens are winning people say wardens are OP and now collies are winning now there OP.
Both sides then go on a rant of the advantages of each of the faction.

[Lo Burattino]

Originally posted by POPO (Sandh Palne wala):

I don't understand this when wardens are winning people say wardens are OP and now collies are winning now there OP.
Both sides then go on a rant of the advantages of each of the faction.

because, just like me when I play Company of Heroes 2, the loyalists will never acknowledge their shortcomings

[Manny Pardo]

Dev being collies ruined the game

[Vaiseri]

Are you new to the game by any chance lmao?

Wardens territory is OP af, high ground, many choke points? Here: Spitrocks, Oster Wall, North of saltbrook, conclave, all of Callahans Passage, it's a matter of building diff, colonials would love to be given as many choke points and high ground locations, but the map is designed to slope downwards going to the south, wardens live in the north, where its mountainous.

[Major0Noob]

the snow vs mud was a eye opener for me.
freezing liquids and vehicles ♥♥♥♥♥ logi hard, it's -25% debuff across the board.

while mud is basically collies cat-calling each other in oil-uniforms and better graphics.


imo the wall is useless after 2 breaches


collies really take that extra 50m for granted. it basically forces the front to warden concrete.

a lot of things are asymmetrically ballenced well enough, but freezing and 150 range screws wardens too hard.

[scott0031]

All i can say is before you make such sweeping comments, come and take a look at things from the other side. If you think its a bed of roses you are very much mistaken. you are seeing things with rose tinted glasses. Most of the time we are outgunned with 6 or 8 tanks v 3 or 4 yet we hold our own due to the team and not Superior weapons. Same with arty you guys seem to have an non stops supply of shells when we have had none for many hours at a time. We have nothing that aims like the the warden small arms, nothing at all, yet we hold our own. So don't say 'skill issue' until you have taken a look from the other side. Sometimes our teams are a disaster with many players not having a clue and have to be directed, but its testament to those leaders and commitment from those players that makes the difference. 'Skill issue' buy a mirror is all i can say.

Not to mention a hell of a lot of very suspect play, i and many others see on the warden side, but that's another story.

I suggest you put your efforts into your play and not the forums, it will only lead you to more frustration.

[Langrel]

Originally posted by POPO (Sandh Palne wala):

I don't understand this when wardens are winning people say wardens are OP and now collies are winning now there OP.
Both sides then go on a rant of the advantages of each of the faction.

Yeah and it will never end, nor should it tbh, makes forums more interesting to read. The joys of asymmetrical balancing. The game wouldn't be nearly as interesting if it was just 1:1 mirrored for perfect balance. If anything is going to be changed, please change Jade Cove seaport too. I quite like the idea of remaking the map to manage trains better, but that would probably not come in a hurry.

[Pyroide]

Originally posted by Foxy:

The best defence is defence in depth, so the terrain in places like Marban Hollow and Callahan's Passage is insanely powerful for defenders, with multiple narrow mountain passed that reduce attacking numbers down to nothing. I just don't think you understand map design in Foxhole all too well honestly.

Marbon Hollow? Personally as a Warden I hate that region. Most of the Wardens I know hate that region. To defend it? Maybe Sanctum, but that's about it.

[Loot]

Originally posted by scott0031:

Not to mention a hell of a lot of very suspect play, i and many others see on the warden side, but that's another story.

One of your tanks kept lighting me up in the dark, last night. I was out of vision range as an infantryman and this tank kept MGing me with perfect accuracy when there was no way they should have seen me. Suspect indeed.

[Iskander]

Originally posted by Loot Repeat:

Originally posted by scott0031:

Not to mention a hell of a lot of very suspect play, i and many others see on the warden side, but that's another story.

One of your tanks kept lighting me up in the dark, last night. I was out of vision range as an infantryman and this tank kept MGing me with perfect accuracy when there was no way they should have seen me. Suspect indeed.

If you can: record the evidence, submit a ticket to siegecamp, contact Wardens you trust and send the evidence to them as well, so that they can deal with the cheaters.
Cheating is despicable and should not be tolerated; there are plenty of decent people on both sides who will perform a lot of work to make sure the cheaters are kicked out of their regiments, or the regiments themselves get shunned if they continue to harbor such cheaters.

[Grace]

Originally posted by Foxy:

If you want people to listen to what you think are your legitimate concerns, maybe don't intersperse them with "lmao collies are so bad for not winning already".

Most of your arguments are like, years out of date anyway. Map design has always favoured the north in a north v south, pushing uphill in Foxhole is very hard and the bulwark literally ends in Westgate and Allod's, so you can just sail around it.

The best defence is defence in depth, so the terrain in places like Marban Hollow and Callahan's Passage is insanely powerful for defenders, with multiple narrow mountain passed that reduce attacking numbers down to nothing. I just don't think you understand map design in Foxhole all too well honestly.

You seem to be thinking of the game before 150mm arty spam, flame tanks, flamers, RPGs, and oh, that's right, not nearly enough Gsupps because people want to supp facilities as well as bunkers too in this build of the game. As powerful as they are on paper, Call Passage was swept aside this war once the decay set in.

I understand the design of Foxhole just fine. But the map does not match the new design, which is the entire point.

You can't have new systems added to an old map and think it'll be fine, especially when the old map had serious problems in the first place. Just look at the holes in the world that still exist, all this time later. The map should have at least had a proper validation pass on it to make sure it did not trap players simply for walking on the wrong side of certain roads!

Go on, tell me how good that is. *Hint, it's game design 101, don't have bad terrain tiles that you never bother fixing*.

[Grace]

Originally posted by scott0031:

All i can say is before you make such sweeping comments, come and take a look at things from the other side. If you think its a bed of roses you are very much mistaken.

That is an argument for someone to make a game very much like Foxhole, but who are a much more competent developer.

And yes, the Collie side of the map has issues too. Like building railways though the F'n wall of eternal woe, when you cannot put down a rail template on day 1 and have the bunker builders build around that. Too bad if you guess the width wrong, because they're not giving up their concrete bunker ...