New Players Ruin The Game

[PotatoLord]

Now, we were all once new players and we cannot ignore that fact.
Notice I don't use the word "noob" because I believe use of such word to be very immature.

Foxhole is a fun but complicated game with a huge learning curve.
Often times I see new players doing really dumb things and unintentionally greif. Of course they have no idea of how much damage they're causing because for all they know this is top down call of duty.

What makes no sense is that this game doesn't have a tutorial.
The traing grounds don't count because nobody goes there as there is no insentive and nothing forces you to.

My idea for a solution is an unskippable tutorial that you have to go through at the start of the game to teach players combat basics, how to destroy structures, the meaning of shirts and supplies, and how not to greif and be productive players.
There should also be an optional logistics tutorial.

[AcidNeon]

Just watch some videos. Thats all it takes.

As a new player myself i can say that after about an hour of toutorial videos i could explain every basic function to you in detail. And i have only been in game for 11 minutes

All new players should just do this and recognize the need for logistics work and nobody would give them some (well deserved) hate.

To all you new players out there, just watch voxagons bootcamp toutorials along with some letsplay and you will aotomatically graduate to ametuer class instead of noob (assuming you impliment your newfound knowledge).

[Hollywood]

Dev makes rules of conduct, not good enough players know better.
Dev makes game, not good enough, players know better (Your not doing WHAT I WANT!).
Dev makes learning curve, not good enough, players know better, new players arent allowed to play until they learn how to play.
(lol wut...?).
Not trying to pick a fight, but it IS somewhat like the Army, the actual Army really doesnt TEACH you much more than basic Soldier skills (How to march in a box of people, how to pretend your a statue, how to sleep standing up) and how to pull a rifle trigger without shooting your face off. The stuff that marks out a professional is the time, dedication, and effort put in by a NCO and chain of command to make a green solider capable of replacing him at the current or higher level of operational effectiveness.
I can see both sides, seems like another way to drive "player created content / gameplay" or player created Armies, tactics, methods of waging war and "player made players"
;)

[PotatoLord]

Originally posted by unit719:

Dev makes rules of conduct, not good enough players know better.
Dev makes game, not good enough, players know better (Your not doing WHAT I WANT!).
Dev makes learning curve, not good enough, players know better, new players arent allowed to play until they learn how to play.
(lol wut...?).
Not trying to pick a fight, but it IS somewhat like the Army, the actual Army really doesnt TEACH you much more than basic Soldier skills (How to march in a box of people, how to pretend your a statue, how to sleep standing up) and how to pull a rifle trigger without shooting your face off. The stuff that marks out a professional is the time, dedication, and effort put in by a NCO and chain of command to make a green solider capable of replacing him at the current or higher level of operational effectiveness.
I can see both sides, seems like another way to drive "player created content / gameplay" or player created Armies, tactics, methods of waging war and "player made players"
;)

Well thing is Foxhole is more than most shooter games where you just jump in and shoot stuff. There are actually logistics and supply routes not present in most other shooters. You can't really jump in and learn the entire game in your first session. It takes many sessions until you can become an actually productive player and until you do every time you play you're just a burden to the team. Maybe you'll descover this after you get more than 5 hours.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by PotatoLord:

Originally posted by unit719:

Dev makes rules of conduct, not good enough players know better.
Dev makes game, not good enough, players know better (Your not doing WHAT I WANT!).
Dev makes learning curve, not good enough, players know better, new players arent allowed to play until they learn how to play.
(lol wut...?).
Not trying to pick a fight, but it IS somewhat like the Army, the actual Army really doesnt TEACH you much more than basic Soldier skills (How to march in a box of people, how to pretend your a statue, how to sleep standing up) and how to pull a rifle trigger without shooting your face off. The stuff that marks out a professional is the time, dedication, and effort put in by a NCO and chain of command to make a green solider capable of replacing him at the current or higher level of operational effectiveness.
I can see both sides, seems like another way to drive "player created content / gameplay" or player created Armies, tactics, methods of waging war and "player made players"
;)

Well thing is Foxhole is more than most shooter games where you just jump in and shoot stuff. There are actually logistics and supply routes not present in most other shooters. You can't really jump in and learn the entire game in your first session. It takes many sessions until you can become an actually productive player and until you do every time you play you're just a burden to the team. Maybe you'll descover this after you get more than 5 hours.

Not true.
You can learn nearly everything of the game in one session.
And one session can easily be more than 5 hours.
My first session was 6 hours playing straight and i was doing logistics from the very start with a few people together.
Later when the other logistics left i was organizing logistics alone.
You shouldnt mirror what you are unable to do on other people. Just because you cant, others still can.

[PotatoLord]

Originally posted by NemesisZidar:

Originally posted by PotatoLord:

Well thing is Foxhole is more than most shooter games where you just jump in and shoot stuff. There are actually logistics and supply routes not present in most other shooters. You can't really jump in and learn the entire game in your first session. It takes many sessions until you can become an actually productive player and until you do every time you play you're just a burden to the team. Maybe you'll descover this after you get more than 5 hours.

Not true.
You can learn nearly everything of the game in one session.
And one session can easily be more than 5 hours.
My first session was 6 hours playing straight and i was doing logistics from the very start with a few people together.
Later when the other logistics left i was organizing logistics alone.
You shouldnt mirror what you are unable to do on other people. Just because you cant, others still can.

Well just because you can doesn't mean everybody can. Near half of the teams I play on are comprised with clueless new players who have enthusiasm but without well organised leadership are just kinda really bad as they don't know the game yet. A tutorial can garentee that everybody learns within 15 minutes. Plus not everybody is as paitent as you. A new player could come in clueless and decide he wants a refund in the first hour because he doesn't know how to pay or where to go.

[Toasty]

You can always show new players the ropes and help explain the game to them when you think they are doing something wrong or not the most effective. After all the game is about teamwork. Without new players the game would die off just like any other game. New players keep the servers populated and bring more interest into the game.

[PotatoLord]

Originally posted by Toasty:

You can always show new players the ropes and help explain the game to them when you think they are doing something wrong or not the most effective. After all the game is about teamwork. Without new players the game would die off just like any other game. New players keep the servers populated and bring more interest into the game.

Sure you could but just because you enjoy it doesn't mean everybody does. I like doing either logistics or frontline fighting. It's not my responsibility as a player to teach the new playerbase, it's the devs' responsibility to make a tutorial.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by PotatoLord:

Originally posted by Toasty:

You can always show new players the ropes and help explain the game to them when you think they are doing something wrong or not the most effective. After all the game is about teamwork. Without new players the game would die off just like any other game. New players keep the servers populated and bring more interest into the game.

Sure you could but just because you enjoy it doesn't mean everybody does. I like doing either logistics or frontline fighting. It's not my responsibility as a player to teach the new playerbase, it's the devs' responsibility to make a tutorial.

its not about responsibility.
And no one said you have to.
Its one of the nice features of this game that there are people who do.
A basic tutorial for the basic things like movement and how to use the controls is fine.
But that wont get rid of what your problem is, as you cant teach the whole game in a tutorial.
You will still need people who tell others how to do things and you will still have people who will even with doing a tutorial and watching a few gameplay vids not get what they are doing.

Its also sign of a deep and complex game, which can be good.
But its the same as with games like Hearts of Iron, they are very complicated and tend to have a high learning curve and entry barrier.
And many drop out before they overcome that barrier.
Helping others out will only make sure that there will be more being able to stay in the game.

[PotatoLord]

Originally posted by NemesisZidar:

Originally posted by PotatoLord:

Sure you could but just because you enjoy it doesn't mean everybody does. I like doing either logistics or frontline fighting. It's not my responsibility as a player to teach the new playerbase, it's the devs' responsibility to make a tutorial.

its not about responsibility.
And no one said you have to.
Its one of the nice features of this game that there are people who do.
A basic tutorial for the basic things like movement and how to use the controls is fine.
But that wont get rid of what your problem is, as you cant teach the whole game in a tutorial.
You will still need people who tell others how to do things and you will still have people who will even with doing a tutorial and watching a few gameplay vids not get what they are doing.

Its also sign of a deep and complex game, which can be good.
But its the same as with games like Hearts of Iron, they are very complicated and tend to have a high learning curve and entry barrier.
And many drop out before they overcome that barrier.
Helping others out will only make sure that there will be more being able to stay in the game.

Yeah I get your point however it's hard to play the game as well as teach new players at the same time really and not everybody is willing to so the new players sometimes just wander around until they decide to refund

[Buntkreuz]

I never had a problem doing that.
Why even?
Theres a voice chat. When someone asks you a question you press one button and say a sentence.
That easy.
I played on the front and yet introduced a guy at the same time.
And doing logistics is easy enough and has enough downtime to coordinate people aswell.
And when you dont want to, just tell them where to start or go to to figure it out by themselves at best.
Like "go to this station to fight on the front." Or "ask in chat what team needs".
Whenever i didnt want to take care of new people i did that and they literally just asked that exact question and got started easily. They were said on what to do by others and so they learn the game step by step.
Doing logistics is also a nice start.

[UwU]

Just copy & paste the links of nice simple guides :) I do a lot and it works.

All players have a possibitity to improve the experience in general because we are part of the community. I saw a player, today, building a radio tower next to a foxhole and ON the road, so, I explain him that was not a good idea and WHY. Then, I show him how to place a radio tower to make it more efficient.

He learnt, and he corrected his mistakes.

If you treat them bad, they will get angry, therefore, grief.


Question: Would you hit & shout your new-born son or would you try to have some patience and try to show him the things, how they work and so on? This is easier: They understand, can read and have the will to enjoy this game, because they have paid 20€ for it. Just don't act like an irrational veteran who wants to trigger the pull and execute newbies...

[PotatoLord]

Originally posted by Baguette Joffre le Sexy:

Just copy & paste the links of nice simple guides :) I do a lot and it works.

All players have a possibitity to improve the experience in general because we are part of the community. I saw a player, today, building a radio tower next to a foxhole and ON the road, so, I explain him that was not a good idea and WHY. Then, I show him how to place a radio tower to make it more efficient.

He learnt, and he corrected his mistakes.

If you treat them bad, they will get angry, therefore, grief.


Question: Would you hit & shout your new-born son or would you try to have some patience and try to show him the things, how they work and so on? This is easier: They understand, can read and have the will to enjoy this game, because they have paid 20€ for it. Just don't act like an irrational veteran who wants to trigger the pull and execute newbies...

1st of all that's the point I want a manditory tutorial

And as I said before it's not my responisbility to teach the new players I just wanna play the game

Last of all it's not MY son I don't have to teach all the new players because I just wanna play the game

And I'm not looking to trigger people read what I said please I want a manditory tutorial

[PotatoLord]

Originally posted by NemesisZidar:

I never had a problem doing that.
Why even?
Theres a voice chat. When someone asks you a question you press one button and say a sentence.
That easy.
I played on the front and yet introduced a guy at the same time.
And doing logistics is easy enough and has enough downtime to coordinate people aswell.
And when you dont want to, just tell them where to start or go to to figure it out by themselves at best.
Like "go to this station to fight on the front." Or "ask in chat what team needs".
Whenever i didnt want to take care of new people i did that and they literally just asked that exact question and got started easily. They were said on what to do by others and so they learn the game step by step.
Doing logistics is also a nice start.

1 question answered won't instantly grant him knowledge of the entire game, only a guide does that. Just because you took them to fight doesn't mean they know everything else like logistics and stuff. In fact most people figure that out pretty quickly, fighting in this game is easy to learn.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by PotatoLord:

Originally posted by Baguette Joffre le Sexy:

Just copy & paste the links of nice simple guides :) I do a lot and it works.

All players have a possibitity to improve the experience in general because we are part of the community. I saw a player, today, building a radio tower next to a foxhole and ON the road, so, I explain him that was not a good idea and WHY. Then, I show him how to place a radio tower to make it more efficient.

He learnt, and he corrected his mistakes.

If you treat them bad, they will get angry, therefore, grief.


Question: Would you hit & shout your new-born son or would you try to have some patience and try to show him the things, how they work and so on? This is easier: They understand, can read and have the will to enjoy this game, because they have paid 20€ for it. Just don't act like an irrational veteran who wants to trigger the pull and execute newbies...

1st of all that's the point I want a manditory tutorial

And as I said before it's not my responisbility to teach the new players I just wanna play the game

Last of all it's not MY son I don't have to teach all the new players because I just wanna play the game

And I'm not looking to trigger people read what I said please I want a manditory tutorial

Its a bit of a misconception you have there.
Its a double edged sword.
You cant deny responsibility but take in the advantages.
Or in other words, there are duties and privileges.
You can only take the favor of a privilege when you fulfill your duty.
Being responsible helping out new players grants you the right to expect a better experience.
What you do is expecting a better experience for doing nothing at all.
So they kinda are right with you also taking the responsibility of making it better.
You just want to play, but you chose to play a communicative multiplayer game that lives from the interactions with other players.
Otherwise i recommend getting Running with Rifles which provides a well made solo experience with bots.

[Oromuth]

Strong players ruin the game as well. Day 1, 50v30, strong players rush the enemy towns with CVs and coordination, giving everyone a strong advantage and ruining the match for the other team. Thankfully, OWU will fix this.