Vehicle dominance in late game .

[kampfer91]

I feel the need to discuss about this particular " problem " .

The current meta is tank /HT support with infantry and a supply truck tag along for repairing , i won't say this is wrong , in fact it is the right thing to do if they want to win .

However , by executing it right the combo is very strong and easily crush defenses without any hastle . Infantries are there to kill RPG infantry , spotting mine and destroy AT turret or the tank will just destroy AT turret from maximum range if they can .

To be honest , i feel the defender have very few choice when it come to counter these attack , either RPG or another tank , with RPG being cheap but risky and Tank is very effective but costly and required a good crews . Infantry usually don't contribute much and only act at cannon fodder in order to slow down the inevitable defeat .

[Derp123]

I'll tell you one of the things underused that is SO GOOD IN THIS GAME IS field artillery. I agree that vehichles dominate late game, but isn't that what has slowly happened in real life as well? We went from infantry and cavalry to tanks, to motorized infantry, to more tanks, etc... The world around us has gotten more focused on vehichles in warfare as well... Trust me, artillery is amazing but just underused. Arty can take out HTs and Tanks, In 40 shells on March 28th I was able to take out 2 tanks, 1 HT and countless warden defenses. All this as I just sat behind friendly tanks that were waiting for me to do damage to Warden troops before they advanced...

[kampfer91]

Ah another arty appreciated player .
Yes , Arty is good at get rid of vehicle if the spotter is competent enough , however due to the fact that shell is very expensive, people rarely farm sulfur , and people generally find tank is much cooler or RPG is much easier to use , not much field arties were actually used in the war .

I wish we have more AT options though ...

[ReeperZ]

u just have to use combined defense lines. Wires to slow down infantry and AT mines for the vehicles. use pillboxes to "guard" the wires. Artillery to attack bigger squadrons and Infantry with Granades for smaller groups of vehicles. u can use gas granades for less good tank crews also.

The main problem i see is that everyone is building denfences.... everywhere... thats not effective. walls blocking fireangles, foxholes in front of pillboxes.

And if u have gunboats use gunboats they are amazing!!! A mobile Artillery with a good range.

[Mighty Medic]

Originally posted by kampfer91:

Ah another arty appreciated player .
Yes , Arty is good at get rid of vehicle if the spotter is competent enough , however due to the fact that shell is very expensive, people rarely farm sulfur , and people generally find tank is much cooler or RPG is much easier to use , not much field arties were actually used in the war .

I wish we have more AT options though ...

The reason is that the gunner can see what's happening when firing from the tank compared to the arty. And tank is easier to move around. That's why player prefer it. I have no doubt that an arty squad can wipe out a town in a record time.

[Satori]

The only thing I think might be missing is a dedicated anti-tank vehicle. Like, a field MG but instead of anti-infantry it's anti-tank. This brings up balancing issues though - if you combine the field MG/halftrack with the anti-tank gun do you have an unstoppable force?

I think it's pretty well balanced as is, and with each new introduction you can break that, so the devs are understandably cautious before introducing new things. Right now a combined arms force can be pushed back by competent field artillery, and artillery can be pushed back by aggressive/overwhelming tactics and targeting spotters.

I'm not sure I feel it's an issue that combined arms is the meta. Isn't that kind of how it is in real life? You send your tank with infantry and anti infantry support. There will always be some kind of optimized strategy, at least this one requires a lot of coordination to pull off. You need infantry, halftracks and tanks, and even then that can be countered by field artillery.

[kampfer91]

Field MG and AT gun don't have the mobility advantage of vehicle and very vulnerable to flanking attack , even a single infantry with grenade launcher can give them hell , hence they were used as denfense rather than attacking which vehicle are excell at .

Nothing wrong with combine arm tactic for attacker , but currently in game it is way too strong and defender have few options to stop them .

[Varyaeg ᛤ]

If a defensive line is made properly it will stop even a combined arms force for a long time, nothing will stop them forever though. However, most people do not incorportate barbed wire and tank traps into their defenses

[Sifer2]

For starters this game doesn't even have Field Guns like they had in the actual WW2 that were the primary thing used to kill tanks. RPG's were rare. Basically the game is missing a 2 man crew direct fire Canon used to kill Tanks/Defenses. Yes there is Artillery but it's awkward to use, and wont work on a moving target once the enemy wises up, and knows your using artillery. Also another bad thing about all these crew weapons is they have to be pushed around from a vehicle factory which is really slow if there isn't a factory anywhere near where your fighting. Would be nice if they could be towed by Supply Trucks.

[El Tio Vellea]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0uZYAmk_qk

[Raymond]

There are 2 major problems why vehicle play large role later on in the game. The first one is that there wasn't much players actually knew how to fight a tank as infantry, experianced players keep forming tank squads leaving frontline for newb players to manage on their own. That means anti-vehicle weapon like RPG, land mine and HE grenade are not properly ultilized. And then it leads to 2nd problem, supplies. Most logi players afraid that infantry explosive weapons might not making significant result, therefor most of our efforts and sulfur are invested into tanki shells and artilery shells instead. In consequence, most of the time where the frontline soilders are to fight against a tank column invading, anti-tank weapons are usually in very low stockpile or none existed, the garrison infantry are often left with only one choice, buy time for ally tank squad to reinforce the base.

[Mighty Medic]

I saw too many players waisting RPG on infantry that I can understand why tanks might be strong. The issue is inexperienced player who squander the anti tank ammo... You just have to look at the stocks. If you put RPG ammo in a FOB, you'll need few min to see the stock vanish.

Sulfur based ammo should be lvl locked up to officer grade.

Same issue with unexperimented tank driver. I get a heart attack whenever I see a private in a tank.

[kampfer91]

Most of current AT weapon required the infantry to actually get close to the vehicle which prove to be fatal .

For example RPG , newb friendly weapon as it may be , they fire 1 shot , they die to enemy infantry and leave behind an empty RPG , but the RPG blueprint only provide 5 RPGs so they always short in stock .

Experienced tank squad will prefer to fight at long range and then blizt the enemy along side with HT and infantry who can suppress eneny infantry and thus the need of own team tank to deal with the enemy tank.

Also , the lack of direct fire cannon , right now we have 4 kinds of arty support ....

[Mighty Medic]

You can shoot RPG from longuer range if you are in a garnison or bunker. Those place are relatively safe and can hold position forever is the supply chain isn't broken. You can shell tanks with mortar too. The problem here is not the lack of countermesure but its something far more simple : tank are more user friendly (noob proof) than their countermesure, thus they are fabricated in mass and that bother the player base.

[Sifer2]

The tanks are not really user friendly or newb proof actually. The ammo is expensive. They run out of fuel easy. Works best with full crew including spotter. Really needs a HT or Infantry support to cover it from Infantry with AT weapons. It's just clans are all running them.

Meanwhile AT weapons are usually in short supply like mentioned. And newbs see a RPG they tend to want to play like it's Quake, and go blow up some infantry with it. If they had a 2 man AT cannon in the game it wouldn't be used by newbs much if it were bad for killing Infantry. It would be the kind of thing you could prebuild, and leave at a base with some shells for when it's needed.

[Mighty Medic]

You're got a point here. I think that I was comparing the aiming mechanism when I said noob proof while comparing RPG, mortar and tanks