Walls are useless

[Go-Go Dancer]

Why do people build walls everywhere? Explain it to me. I think what all they do is hurting your team.

[Harvest]

Walls (at least the bigger ones) take around 10-15 HE nades to blow. Foxholes take 3 HE nades to blow and if you have smoke or suppressive fire they are done by 1 person in 3 clicks.

If your wall is just sitting there undefended... yes it isn't that useful, however stick a few foxholes etc informant of it and the enemy has to blow both the automated defenses and then keep running all the way back to an outpost to get a ton of he to blow the wall. By which time combat engineers will be able to repair the wall or build another set of defenses behind it.

The problem with a thick mass of foxholes is that while they shoot the enemy they also shoot your own guys if enemy is near and friendly soldiers are in the way, additionally, setting up that mass of foxholes might be easy enough for a rear outpost, it isn't that easy for a frontline that is constantly under attack and short on materials.

[FABULOU$]

"walls are useless", probably because you build them wrong. Lets say you are protecting a road. You want foxholes/gun nests lining the road tunnels along both sides of road to prevent easy breakage. Then you go walls with pillboxes of whatever type lining the OUTSIDE of the wall with foxholes or gun nests between them to prevent LOS exploiting of the boxes. Add bunkers if you have the materials and of course line the road on the INSIDE of the wall with towers to let radiomen know where enemy are on the route. Expand the defenses as you see fit. But with how little variety there is in defensive placements this plan is pretty much the only way.

Originally posted by Harvest:

The problem with a thick mass of foxholes is that while they shoot the enemy they also shoot your own guys if enemy is near and friendly soldiers are in the way, additionally, setting up that mass of foxholes might be easy enough for a rear outpost, it isn't that easy for a frontline that is constantly under attack and short on materials.

When you are standing in the middle of 6 foxholes and an enmy suicides a truck into the middle of them and every single foxholes lights you up at once lol
Or when you are hiding behind a wall and an enemy pops out from the side and, no, does not kill you but sees the pillbox and runs back behind the wall. Then the friendly pillbox proceeds to finally start firing but only once the enemy is safe behind the wall subsequently killing you who is in the middle of all this.

[Nivek Ogre]

Something I hear a lot in game is; "Build foxholes, not walls; walls don't shoot."

Yeah? Well, foxholes don't block shots; walls do.

No matter how many walls you build, the enemy will always get through. No matter how many foxholes you build, the enemy will always get through...but he can get through foxholes with smoke and HE grenades faster than he can get through fortress walls.

The main point of walls is to A) slow an enemy's advance to give forces time to respond, and B) protect infantry from incoming enemy infantry fire. Foxholes can do A, but walls do it better (they last longer under fire) and foxholes cannot do B.

Walls are far from useless.

[Go-Go Dancer]

Originally posted by Nivek Ogre:

Foxholes can do A, but walls do it better

Walls don't do it better, walls don't do it at all. You just go around them. You can't ignore foxholes, you can ignore walls. Walls = cover for your enemy. Walls block your path for offensive defence and counterattack. Walls are your coffin.

[Sir Clavius]

During many hours spent in the Foxhole while this game was free, i found out that walls are really REALY bad idea to use. As solo player, i always was happy that enemy used so many walls...Because behind wall i was able to build foxhole or turret for sneaky breach and raiding spot near the strategic roads. I always had more problems when people were building more foxholes, turrets and watchtowers instead walls... Walls are good place to waste your time and resources. Anyway, i dont understand why even walls exists in this game, its not about medieval warfare..

[[KoS] Ajaxx]

As an active member of the foxhole community with 300+ hours in game and a solid rep as a combat engineer on many servers I would like to throw my opinion into the mix. Walls are a highly controversial subject in almost every game I am in as I hear the walls vs foxholes argument in every game amoungst people.

There are several different type of people in the game and dozens of playstyles. One thing that players must understand is that unless you have a team of 100% clan members/ friends working cohesively sh*ts gunna happen. There will be times when things go sideways and there will be time when you are steamrolling.

I have never been in a match and gone to a front line FoB and said "Wow thank god there are no walls around this super important structure preventing it from getting blown up by 1 resourcefull player with an inventory full of He's and Smokes!" Why? Because I'm not mentally challenged.

There are many many cases in which Walls are extremely usefull. I will say they are significantly les usefull before the ability to produced Rmats and upgrade them to Fortress walls/bunkers, but can still be usefull.

I can not tell you how many times my clan mates and I ahve held a choke point 3 or 4 vs 15 for hours like the damn alamo because we had a few walls and a gate up in a chokepoint (like the mountain pass north of Scath) with a guy in a bunker on each side of the gate with an HMG while the other 1 or 2 guys ran around in front keeping foxes/pillboxes repaired.

Without that wall what would have happened? Incomming barrage of smokes, all foxes are down, we can't see the enemy and all of a sudden we are being shot in our back as they breached the line of foxes.

I can't tell you how many times we have entrenched ourselves deep into enemy territory because they though thier foxes along the roads were enough to stop raiding parties. If it is day 5+ don't count on it cause we have smokes. Smokes are super easy to produce and turn your foxes into tiny walls that do nothing but obstruct a very small area. A squad of 4 carrying nothing but smokes and HE's can take out 8 foxes without being encumbered in under a minute.

Breach a bridge, throw up some walls on the other side. If they don't have a FoB with Nades right there it will be a pain in the ass for them to start shuttling Nades there to break your walls, in fact by the time they do you have entranched yourself with foxes and bunkers.

Do you really wanna rely on your enemy not advancing to Weapons Tech 3 during thier match? Do you really want to risk your flank on the idea that a few guys with a dozen clips of rifle ammo each aren't going to break your like of foxes? When raiding would you pick the spot that has a few foxes and a pillbox to make your breach or the spot that has a few foxes, a pillbox and fortress walls? While the walls are often build in sloppy positions by random idiots, they have uses. The trick is having the smarts to know when to use them and when not to.

~[KoS] Ajaxx - Wardens - Combat Engineer

[Running Blind]

Walls cost more resources to destroy than they do to create. The same cannot be said about foxholes.

[kampfer91]

Originally posted by Running Blind:

Walls cost more resources to destroy than they do to create. The same cannot be said about foxholes.

Foxhole is cheap , also easy to destroy and the A.I is stupid .

A wall with foxhole in front of it is another thing , no one will take the risk to blow up both and try to find out what is behind the wall .

[Grimno]

Walls are very useful.

[Go-Go Dancer]

Jesus Christ you are describing it as if wall is something impossible to destroy. All it takes is take out one section of the wall and suddenly your precious wall becomes solid cover for your enemy. Ofc foxholes can be destroyed without much problem, but you can't destroy just one foxhole to compromised whole defence, you must remove them all. The most common wall is reinforced one, which takes only 2 hmg mags or 6 HE.

[Go-Go Dancer]

It really is ridiculous, when you must build a ton of active defences, to protect your passive walls. Just build more turrets, srsly.
And all this talk about how foxholes are bad without a support. Well, no ♥♥♥♥! And walls are even worse without a support, they could build a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ FOB outside your walls, or simply use mortar to take down yours.

[Nivek Ogre]

Originally posted by Go-Go Dancer:

Jesus Christ you are describing it as if wall is something impossible to destroy. All it takes is take out one section of the wall and suddenly your precious wall becomes solid cover for your enemy. Ofc foxholes can be destroyed without much problem, but you can't destroy just one foxhole to compromised whole defence, you must remove them all. The most common wall is reinforced one, which takes only 2 hmg mags or 6 HE.

You don't have to take out all the foxholes, you just have to clear your way thru a field. Kill a few foxholes, ignore the rest.

The problem isn't that walls suck, it's that a lot of people don't know how to build. I've built towns with walls and foxholes outside *and* inside, with overlapping fields of fire. Oddly enough, the towns I fortified were always the last ones standing when we lost, and the ones we staged our attacks from when we won.

By all means, ignore all walls and build nothing but foxholes. You're making my team's job much easier and faster. :)

[Daemonjg]

32 hours playing and knows more then anyone at the game.

[Nivek Ogre]

Originally posted by Daemon:

32 hours playing and knows more then anyone at the game.

Yeah, I only have 320+ hours...what do I know? :) There are a lot of people who argue just to argue. Many of the people in this thread are from that group. Here's a little piece of advice for them; the learning curve in this game tops out at about 100 hours; at that point, you've pretty much mastered all the little nuances the game has to offer right now (if you've been paying attention). There's no real difference between a guy with 100 hours and 700 hours except rote repetition

Before 100 hours, you only *think* you know it all.

[Moon Spice]

When your building a tunnel network an encounter enemy foxhole line you build a wall for cover.
You flank those foxholes till HE arrives, steal enemy walls build up defenses and take out the enemy tunnel network.
take out enemy gate, build some foxholes on the other side and carry on with the tunnel network.
What builder seriously has time to carry around smoke grenades?
When your under fire and over encumbered as most builders would be, you build a WALL, get back to your tunnel and build more foxholes.