Competitors, shutting them down

[Mieumieu]

Hi. I didn't realize this game was going to be having competitors annoying me the entire time and rushing me through everything. I get that I can set up my own sandbox of a game and set it however I want to, but I do enjoy having goals to go through and so I plan on playing the campaign and scenarios.

It's not even that they're competition, it's that they are non-stop sabotaging me, stealing my employees, just screwing me over and taunting me about it.

I'm looking for the fastest way to shut them down. Is that just going to be dependent on the specific campaign or scenario that I'm playing in? Or is there a certain way that normally works well?

I've been searching a bit and see that there is some strategy to block them from expanding, by building two of my own rails in towns around them. Is that the go to method for dealing with them? That's going to screw up my usual build, but I guess it would be better than how bad they usually screw me up with their building into my cities.

Is that sort of a cheesy way to do it? Like something the game didn't really count on people doing?

I guess they could have patched it so that each person could only do 1 station or that even if someone had 2 that someone else could still build a station there if they wanted it to be different. I don't know if that's cheesing the game or not, but they very easily could have set it up so you couldn't do that and they didn't. I do want to shut the competitors down quick and not deal with them just screwing with me the entire time.

If it was a straight building competition, I'd be up for having them there the entire time. But they mess up all sorts of stuff I'm doing and steal employees and I have to go searching for who they stole through all these trains. They're so annoying!

Yet I want to do the campaign and scenario goals, so I'm going to have to deal with them. I guess that it's not really that huge of a deal even if it is sort of being cheesy. I'll just decide if I want to do it or not.

I just didn't know if that was basically it, the two train stations in each town thing. I did see someone talking about trying to do loans to buy them out quick, depending on the scenario as well. I guess I would not feel too guilty doing that, though I've been doing it the long way so far. They're just so annoying with their sabotage and attacks and taunts that I kind of want to shut them down fast now :D

[chaney]

In Free or Sandbox mode, not sure which maybe both, you can set Competitors to zero. I think one of those modes will give random goals. Been too long.

For fixed scenarios, I believe the best method is to just expand aggressively and buy them out ASAP. Any focus on them may be slower in getting to the buyout than other options.

Build tracks to nearby Cities, run trains between them, and bring in nearby rural goods they want.

Make some tracks, put engines on to serve the demand there. Get money. Add more track, serve the demand there. It doesn't take too long before you can buy them out using that method. The Engineer with deep discounts on engines is pretty strong for this if available.

Avoid buying industries as they have a slow payback compared with expanding your train service.

[Thineboot]

Competitors... most of the time you can just ignore them at all.

You wanna play without competitors and having goals, why not start a Free game - without competitors?

Sabotaging is a random event. Once you've played more scenarios - seems you've taken a short look into the game on 16 Apr '20 and are playing it now since 16 Dec '20 :) - you'll notice that. You can turn off the taunting, check out the options.

In some scenarios you have to secure cities or you'll have to compete with them about the goods. More likely they just lay tracks in a way that forces you to go around, over or under them. Other than that, just ignore them at all.
Make your game, make yourself an Empire and buy them out (merge). Make sure to use analysts before buying shares. Get rid of bonds, save money, and when the time is ready go into debt. As a bonus you'll get all their personnel and tech, too.
Spy on them when possible - quicksave helps wasting money - for 300-point-tech or get back your precious office personnel using a headhunter. Don't waste money on train personnel. Don't waste money to sabotage them, it's not worth the investment. Just get rich and overtake them. I know, it sounds "easy" but seriously, play for yourself, not against them. The more you're focusing on them the longer it'll take you to get rid of them.

There could be up to four stations squeezed into a single city. But they would have to be side-by-side and since you very rarely would want to place three yourself you'd end up inviting your beloved competition to compete with you more often ;)

Train personnel is nice to have but the time you'll have to invest in making them really count is not worth the time - and I have done all sort of things. Unfortunately the UI isn't helping much.

There are only a few missions and scenarios without competition. Keep in mind that you can't use Pause mode without competition or in missions (campaign) if you want to finish them as President.

Other than that, just ignore them (who would have guessed ;)) and when you have the money, incl. potential bonds, buy them out using an analyst.
Speaking of bonds, use them all the time. Any money you can invest in rails and engines gets you much more than the interest.
Don't fall for rural or industries as you'll have to pay for their expansion. There are circumstances when it's necessary. Either the scenario tells you or you'll notice the need yourself. Most of the time the return of investment is low. Shortages or tasks will force you to go this route anyway when necessary.

[Mieumieu]

Thanks for the replies. I just want to do all these scenarios and I bought all the DLC scenarios. I do know I could be doing sandbox games without them there.

I don't even care that they compete, it's all that annoying sabotage and stealing etc. I'm going to try again and test some stuff and will see how it works out, but thanks for the input. Any helpful feedback is always appreciated :D

I haven't played at all since i was checking for ways to possibly shut them down, so I will see how this session goes now trying some things out.

[chaney]

If you look at how expensive it is to attack, it seems to me it is a mistake most of the time. Maybe you can take some comfort in thinking that by attacking you, the AI has cost itself more than it has hurt you. Still, getting key office employees taken is rough ... remember who took which and look to get them back if you can't replace them.

[Mieumieu]

Originally posted by chaney:

If you look at how expensive it is to attack, it seems to me it is a mistake most of the time. Maybe you can take some comfort in thinking that by attacking you, the AI has cost itself more than it has hurt you. Still, getting key office employees taken is rough ... remember who took which and look to get them back if you can't replace them.

I'm seeing that it's not as bad with some of the competitors. There is that one lady that attacks constantly and has this super annoying dialogue taunting you lol, she's in both of the first two campaign levels where you go against other people. That very first one you do with her and this mobster guy, they both use the attacks constantly.

These other competitors aren't as bad. Plus this time I bought the lady right out at the start and didn't deal with her after.

I'm seeing all these Winter Holiday versions of the characters. I didn't even realize they were special, though I did think it was weird I was going up against a bear (but then again, I was a nutcracker). Then I saw that's not what they usually look like.

[Mieumieu]

Originally posted by Thineboot:

There could be up to four stations squeezed into a single city. But they would have to be side-by-side and since you very rarely would want to place three yourself you'd end up inviting your beloved competition to compete with you more often ;)

Train personnel is nice to have but the time you'll have to invest in making them really count is not worth the time - and I have done all sort of things. Unfortunately the UI isn't helping much.

I really liked hiring up and setting up the personnel though. They kept having conflicts, so I did all this micro managing to get the people who liked each other set up together and the ones that don't separated. It's too bad that they just get stolen from you constantly by the AI. Then you got to go searching for the train they were taken from from a crazy amount of trains. So yeah, they did make that system so it's better just to ignore when playing with competitors. I didn't do train specific employees this time. It seems a shame to waste but I just kept losing them anyway.

For the stations, I just meant, I wondered if it was cheesy to purposely build so that the competition couldn't build in those areas too. People were saying if you built two stations in each place, the competition wouldn't build there. I tried it this last game, and even though you have to waste a bunch of money to do it, it seems worth it. I don't think it's too cheesy to do in the end. It makes it more fun for me to block them out and then take on the goals without worrying about them as much.

It's funny though, the stuff I'd leave open and not build two stations at, the competition was building these huge long railways way across the map to reach them.

[chaney]

If it's more fun for you, it doesn't matter if someone else thinks it's cheese. Single player game, all for you to enjoy as you please.

It does cost less to build two Small Stations than one regular 2 Platform Station, so if you are looking for justification, there it is as soon as you need a second Platform in a particular City. The smaller Stations do load/unload slower, but other than that, there isn't much down side.

[Thineboot]

I feel you; I've invested hours into micro management - and I love micro managing - but in the end the intent doesn't match the implementation :(

Simplified train personnel usage:
Guards for freight destined for cities. Don't use the on trains toward Warehouses, they don't count on that routes.
Conductor on city-to-city lines with high passenger and/or mail frequency respectively.
Engineers and stoker with the maintenance symbol. Reduced maintenance or increased reliability is always helpful, especially with multiple Express lines sharing the same rails. Speed booster not so much since trains can't overtake each other anyway.
Check out the sorting, it'll help deciding which train should first get outstanding personnel - you know that each and every steam locomotive needs an engineer and a stoker anyway, right?

As chaney said, it's all about your preferred taste. F.i. I don't like Gouda but Emmentaler ;)

If you like to watch take a closer look at competing companies - after a quicksave. Find their weaknesses and exploit them. When they waste money instead of making it you can overtake them easier. Be aware that this won't be satisfying and ask your doctor before performing such task in case you have heart condition or something like it :)
Have you ever noticed that they have to go over or under your rails to cross them? And there are no trumpets in the game ;)

[Mieumieu]

Originally posted by chaney:

If it's more fun for you, it doesn't matter if someone else thinks it's cheese. Single player game, all for you to enjoy as you please.

It does cost less to build two Small Stations than one regular 2 Platform Station, so if you are looking for justification, there it is as soon as you need a second Platform in a particular City. The smaller Stations do load/unload slower, but other than that, there isn't much down side.

Yeah I guess I was sort of hoping it wasn't officially an exploit. It seems like it was reported and talked about and left in the game, so it's probably meant to be part of the game. Plus when you do leave an open spot they talk about how you left a spot open for them, as if you almost are supposed to build multiple stations if you want to keep them out.

I like doing all the goals of trying to set stuff up and transport this number of people to here by this year, etc, but don't especially enjoy the competitors. So I'm going to just do whatever I can to shut them down that isn't specifically cheating.

I guess it's true that in a single player game, it doesn't matter what you choose to do that is fun for you. My goals are to do it without exploiting, but if they're doing something that isn't fun for me to deal with and it's a single player game, it doesn't matter what I do to hold them back. Even if I modded the game so they couldn't expand or something (I don't know if such a thing exists, but I'm sure it would be possible).

Though it does depend on the competitor. It's so funny they put you up against these two super annoying ones to start.

I left like no room for stations around anything close to this one competitor, but they ended up building this huge super long rail to get up to a grain source at the other side of the map. I guess that's what I'd do too, if it was all that was available to me. But still it was funny to see that long trail of tracks appear.

[Mieumieu]

Originally posted by Thineboot:

I feel you; I've invested hours into micro management - and I love micro managing - but in the end the intent doesn't match the implementation :(

Simplified train personnel usage:
Guards for freight destined for cities. Don't use the on trains toward Warehouses, they don't count on that routes.
Conductor on city-to-city lines with high passenger and/or mail frequency respectively.
Engineers and stoker with the maintenance symbol. Reduced maintenance or increased reliability is always helpful, especially with multiple Express lines sharing the same rails. Speed booster not so much since trains can't overtake each other anyway.
Check out the sorting, it'll help deciding which train should first get outstanding personnel - you know that each and every steam locomotive needs an engineer and a stoker anyway, right?

As chaney said, it's all about your preferred taste. F.i. I don't like Gouda but Emmentaler ;)

If you like to watch take a closer look at competing companies - after a quicksave. Find their weaknesses and exploit them. When they waste money instead of making it you can overtake them easier. Be aware that this won't be satisfying and ask your doctor before performing such task in case you have heart condition or something like it :)
Have you ever noticed that they have to go over or under your rails to cross them? And there are no trumpets in the game ;)

I'm just going to probably leave out doing anything with personnel when I've got competitors with me. Although some definitely steal way less than others. Those first two are such a pain.

I would consider using mods if I could mod certain things like preventing the competitors from stealing your employees, then I would go ahead and use the personnel. I don't want to do all that work setting them up just to hear them constantly being stolen though.

I may look into mods for this game because I really enjoy most of it that doesn't involve competitors. I love trying to get certain rails up in time, doing the goals of getting passengers to a certain city by a certain date, building up the population, etc. These things are all fun.

We'll see. If the way I'm blocking them out continues to work, maybe I won't need to mod. It would be more enjoyable though and I just need to remember it's a single player game and it's okay to do.

Yeah what I noticed most about the competitor builds was that they blocked and annoyed me, making me have to go all up and around, over and under them :P But in this last game where I did things differently (buying one out right off with loan money, blocking the other from being able to expand much) it worked out very well.

I do think I'd like to set them to not expand and not steal my employees, if that is a possibility. I'll look into it later, but maybe I'll just tough it out the way I've been doing and see how it goes :P I think I'd enjoy it a lot more modding them though, if such mods exist, and then still getting to do all the rest of the campaign goals.

[chaney]

I try to take the competition's obnoxiousness as funny. Beatrix is so haughty, but not very competent, so I just smile. If they invest a lot of money in stealing train personnel then you can be happy. They crippled their potential to grow in order to get a very very low value improvement to their train, making it a faster process to buy them up.

It is certainly allowed to use two Stations. As mentioned, the two Small Stations cost less than a single regular Station. Early Cities tend to grow a lot eventually needing two Stations anyway. I like to set one pointing "out" one way and the other pointing "out" the other. As you grow the Stations, they will add Platforms "away" from the building side, so think about what you will be connecting later to avoid crossing your own lines or needing to rebuild them.

Modding for the game is pretty limited, so I don't think those kinds of mods could be made. There are apparently Cheat Engines but it sounds like that isn't what you want to do.

The game task lists do provide nice puzzles to solve, and I like the setting :)

[steel_ratt]

In some scenarios you can simply buy out one (or more) of the competition right at the start of your game. (Get bonds, buy 100% stock, liquidate assets.) You lose a bit of money, but it can be worthwhile, especially if there is a task requirement for it.

Another trick I use when I am hyper-optimizing is to hamstring them at the start of the game. Start a few auctions for less-than-useful businesses (ones that won't be connected to rails for a long time, if ever). Put in a few strategic bids, but let your competitors win. You can usually get them to spend about $500k of their starting money. That keeps them passive for quite a while.

As for personnel... playing against the gangster or the lady, I usually don't bother spending time or money on staff. Personnel is generally not a big part of my strategy anyway, and I can't say that I notice much difference. (Freelancers are a different story, but they can't be poached.)

[My president's medal guides often include some measures to control or outmaneuver competitors. Dummy auctions, double stations, cutting them off with a well-placed station, or using the radius of a large rural station to get past a blocking track.]

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by steel_ratt:

Another trick I use when I am hyper-optimizing is to hamstring them at the start of the game. Start a few auctions for less-than-useful businesses (ones that won't be connected to rails for a long time, if ever). Put in a few strategic bids, but let your competitors win. You can usually get them to spend about $500k of their starting money. That keeps them passive for quite a while.

This works great. I used it a few times on scenarios I was going to feed/control a factory.