Expanding large station to Station with signal control

[bobh]

Hi,

Should I be able to clink on a station then upgrade it? The button seems to be missing. I've seen videos where this was shown as how you upgrade from regular large station to station with signal control. Does this functionality still exist? If so, what am I doing wrong? If not, then whats the best thing to do ? Delete the old station and buy a signal control station ?

[Jenska]

signal controlled stations (2 or 4 track) are much longer than non-controlled stations, so you cannot do that upgrade. You must delete the station and a fair amount of track in order to place the new station. Unless you REALLY need all the crossovers at BOTH ends, you might consider just upgrading the station from 2 to 4 tracks and then adding the crossovers you actually need. Its a nuisance, but sometimes the only way, especially if one end is unchangeable, such as bridges or the like. If you already have 4 tracks, then either just redo the track with crossovers, or go the whole route by deleting the station and LOTS of track at both ends. To get a good idea just how much change is necessary, place the desired station (you can't actually) over the old station to see exactly how big it is, and how it will affect your existing track.

[rff1]

My advice is simply not to upgrade to a signal-controlled sation, and indeed not to use them at all until (unless) a patch changes the way they work: all new trains appear on platform 1, and all incoming trains also use platform 1 by default. This means that there is a fair chance of a new train having a long wait until that platform is clear, and that while a train is wriggling its way from track 4 to platform 1 other incoming trains have to wait until the first train has come to a halt at the platform.

[logicaloctopus]

I think rff1 has it backwards. The station with signal controls is significantly better than the one without. You can't just add a couple of switch overs and expect it to behave the same way. With signal controlled stations, incoming trains will roll into any open platform. If the station isn't signal controlled then all incoming trains will sit and wait until one specific platform is open. Its best to avoid anything *but* the signal controlled stations.

[gardlt]

When the feature was introduced on the beta branch, the direct upgrade was possible.

However, it's not really a practical solution because
A. it's hard to eyeball how much space will be needed for the signal switching
B. factories you buy and/or AI competitor's rails can quite easily block said upgrade later

But the devs introduced a more flexible solution where dozing the station and then replacing it with the another of any type in roughly the same spot will automatically transfer all train routes from the old station to the new one. However, I don't remember seeing any official documentation on this feature in-game so you are forgiven if you didn't know about it.


I side with rff1 in that it isn't really an upgrade. If you are chasing serious efficiency which I personally do, the regular variety are noticeably superior. Of course there needs to be a good strategy on how to distribute the load. And part of an efficient strategy is also to mostly maintain away from the city stations, at resources or maint. stations. For a more casual style of game where perhaps you just want to run some trains around and have fun without too much strategic route planning the signal-controlled at cities also have their place.

I do find an *efficient use for them in the mid-game+ though. I use them at resources to let multiple trains maintain at the same time.


*Because the game takes a general rather than unique route on some details, for example freight pricing / base city consumption is identical at any given size, and because the game uses a 100% refund policy on track/stations which necessitates too much micro for any loosely fitted solution, I play on Trainiac mode without pause. This actually simplifies IDEAL gameplay and allows TIME to be a factor in some way for my strategic decisions. It can be a bit of a rush in late-game but there are strategies to help with that which also adds strategic. In my opinion it's the best this game has to offer.

[bobh]

Thanks,

I did notice that dozing the station and replacing it with a signal station did align the tracks.

I'm on the California scenario and I have a normal station in San Fran and tons of trains. They're getting backed up and I'm constantly changing trains to different tracks to try to manage it. I know their are more strategic methods for managing tracks but I'm a casual player and don't want to do too deep a dive into micromanagement. If I can get the signal stations to work that would be ideal for me.

I haven't tried a maintenance station at all yet. Does it work like a supply tower where you place it on existing track or is it more like a warehouse where you connect rails to it?

Originally posted by gardlt:

When the feature was introduced on the beta branch, the direct upgrade was possible.

However, it's not really a practical solution because
A. it's hard to eyeball how much space will be needed for the signal switching
B. factories you buy and/or AI competitor's rails can quite easily block said upgrade later

But the devs introduced a more flexible solution where dozing the station and then replacing it with the another of any type in roughly the same spot will automatically transfer all train routes from the old station to the new one. However, I don't remember seeing any official documentation on this feature in-game so you are forgiven if you didn't know about it.


I side with rff1 in that it isn't really an upgrade. If you are chasing serious efficiency which I personally do, the regular variety are noticeably superior. Of course there needs to be a good strategy on how to distribute the load. And part of an efficient strategy is also to mostly maintain away from the city stations, at resources or maint. stations. For a more casual style of game where perhaps you just want to run some trains around and have fun without too much strategic route planning the signal-controlled at cities also have their place.

I do find an *efficient use for them in the mid-game+ though. I use them at resources to let multiple trains maintain at the same time.


*Because the game takes a general rather than unique route on some details, for example freight pricing / base city consumption is identical at any given size, and because the game uses a 100% refund policy on track/stations which necessitates too much micro for any loosely fitted solution, I play on Trainiac mode without pause. This actually simplifies IDEAL gameplay and allows TIME to be a factor in some way for my strategic decisions. It can be a bit of a rush in late-game but there are strategies to help with that which also adds strategic. In my opinion it's the best this game has to offer.

[gardlt]

Maintenance stations work like warehouses to build, can't be built on top of existing track, but function like the service tower, trains will automatically stop when they need to. They are best on longer runs such as city-city. I put an example of how I use them over here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/503940/discussions/0/1679189548061013109/?tscn=1556023430#c1679189548061799444


San Fran is tight on space. The major downside to the signal-controlled stations is the extra length. You might want to look at the Terminal version which only has track exiting from one side.

It sounds like you are running out of capacity. In this case I doubt that simply "upgrading" to signal controlled will be satisfactory.

I suppose you are aware that two stations are allowed in each city? Unless an AI built one there too, you could build another.

You can also build warehouses near a city. There is no limit on how many are allowed --- it's however many will fit in a manner that you can hook track up to them. These work like a regular warehouse, you must specify which freight types it accepts manually, but also allow the city to take directly from its stores as needed. In terms of capacity, my typical use is to first look at local resource delivery in the case of San Fran, Cattle is best example. But Corn and Sugar could easily go to the same warehouse as well.


The basic theory behind using the normal stations is to plan for unique routes to specific platforms. So look at the platforms for capacity individually rather than the station as a whole. Because ideally a city is growing, you may want to stay somewhat below max capacity in each platform before making an upgrade for extra platform/s.

With unique routes there is no need for manual platform assignments. In order to change the platform for trains approaching from one location/direction, all that's necessary is to delete a little bit of track at a junction and then build a little extra that will feed that route to the new platform.

The main distinction I make between platforms is local versus mid-/longer distance. That would be local resource deliveries versus city-city in most general terms. The local runs are more sensitive to route length and traffic-related delays. These are actually the worst affected by signal-controlled stations as well, since there is more waiting and extra distance to travel through the switching mechanism. If using signal-controlled stations in the city I would be thinking about a warehouse or two, the kind without switching. For these runs I highly recommend to build maintenance at the rural station no matter which station type/s you are using.

[chaney]

Good discussion here, thanks everyone.

A fine point on connecting Stations is balancing which trains get priority access.

Like gardlt, I don't care for the Signal Control Stations because the switch network is so long and ill-used that throughput is not efficient. They are quick and easy to set up, so for players who prefer that, I'm happy they are available.

For conventional Stations, I remember a lot of early experimentation and discussion about waiting train priority and cueing. What I don't remember is a clear and consistent behavior. Some setups ended up feeding the same line to Platforms while other lines would be stuck waiting forever. I'm sure enough testing could reveal the details of how it works, but many of us just went to setups using only one line to each Platform (or one line on each side in some cases.) That setup is simple to arrange, has good throughput. ***It also ENSURES that all the different lines will get to use the Station. Other setups that end up, say, excluding the local goods deliveries, can give undesired results.***

[bobh]

Yes, I built myself into a corner and was hoping to solve it with a signal station. I'm going to start over. I do that many times :) but its fun.