Train and Station/Warehouse Names

[Dray Prescot]

I am starting this as a new discsussion rather continue it in a different thread.

For me the automatic names are wrong most of the time: I want names like Grain or Grain Wood for my Stations or Warehouses at Resource Sites. That makes understanding my list of Trains a LOT easier with the other Name (in a Train Name) being the main destination, which is often NOT the Last Station on the List. Also, you or I, might prefer to have the main destination be the first item in the Name for a Train with the source or cargo name second. One way to handle that (besides manually changing the Name) is to start with ONLY the two stations you want in the name in the correct order for the name, save the Route to get the name you want, then immediately reopen the Route and add (and rearrange the order of, if necessary) any other stops you want to it. The only problem might be the train being started at the wrong place, but cloned trains ought to start in the right place afterwards.

Could the GMs give us some options that could be used to control our default way of generating Train Route Names for our own game?

THAT would be useful, so I do not have to change Train names so much. Although that is why I rename my Resource Sites already.

Even a simple command to swap the 1st and 2nd Station Names in a Train Name would take care of MOST needs. Another option would be when you are setting up a (new) Train Route, a simple special character/order would tell the computer use this Station as the 1st choice in the Train Name and a second charcter/order would tell the computer use this Station as the second choice in the train name.

A different way to do it would be to tell the computer use Rural Resource Stations/Warehouses (if any) (i.e. not City Stations) as the 1st Name or the 2nd Name in the Train Route Name (which choice was the default choice would be set by a game option). This should work well also, and might be simpler to implement (and understand).

I am just throwing out ideas/suggestions. What do you think of them? (and put in your own ideas/suggestions)

This may have been dicussed elsewhere in the past.

[rff1]

You can't actually rename resource sites, but you can rename the stations there and I often do, for the same reason as Dray. But I'm quite happy with the present train'naming method: the top station on the list is the starting point, to which trains respawn if they've been upset by track modifications. Routes with more than two stations do need renaming, e.g. Chaplin Oil to Kansas City to Wichita and back to Chaplin starts as Chaplin <> Wichita although the important run is that to KC.

However, there are some things about resource names that I really do not like. Some examples: Bloggs Well yields cement, a product obtained by roasting limeston, which comes from a quarry. Bloggs Fattening produces milk, which comes from a dairy farm, which in turn is not a factory converting milk to food: that is a creamery. Bloggs Colliery yields iron, whereas a colliery is specifically a source of coal; both coal and iron probably come from pits. (I'm using Bloggs because I can't remember the actual names, just the oddities)

With the exceptions of Lopez and Malone, every resource that I have seen has an English name although the USA accepted immigrants from many countries, mostly (I think) European. There really ought to be some other nationalities represented: is this the case in non-English language versions of the game?

[Dray Prescot]

I meant renaming the Station/Warehouse at the Site, not Site itself. I have already been doing some renaming of Trains and the Stations/Warehouses currently in the Mexican Scenarion that I am using to get a better idea of how to use Warehouses, both the 1.7 version, and now the 1.8 version.

I edited my message to make that clearer.

[TheWhiteFlame]

well i think the auto names are ok for default. (having multiple options how the auto names arre created would also be a nice feautre).

but i want to talk about the buggyness of the auto naming. its not consistent.

for the first train for a connection it is named A -> B.
all consecutive ones will get a number A -> B 1, A -> B 2 so on.
firt i really would like to start with 1 and continue with 2, not start with nothing (0) and continues with 1.
but apart from that, it seems that the first train also get AUTO UPDATED, when you rename a warehouse for example, the name changes... BUT only for those trains that do NOT have a number... so this needs to get fixed.

[Dray Prescot]

If you or I are willing to do the manual (re)naming of things (Train Routes, Station Names, and Warehouse Names), then the whole point of this thread becomes moot. I am trying to suggest ways to make (semi) automatic Names assigned/generated by the computer be a little more usefull.

I do agree about the 1 in the Name business. In fact, when I do my own manual renaming I often make my name include a 1 on the end of it for that very reason, so that the first clone of it will have a 2 in its name (since it IS the 2nd Train with that Name afterall).

[chaney]

Thanks for the discourse as always rff1.

Ah, the question: do you count from 1, or 0? Tabs or spaces? Coke or Pepsi? Harley or Japanese? I'll leave religion out of it ...

[gardlt]

Well, station numbering starts at 1, when you have two stations those are Chicago 1 and Chicago 2. Don't remind me how the game gets station numbering confused with the second naming item.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1620160578


PS. Thankfully, I hardly ever build second stations except sometimes for build-out and at that point more trains is probably better. If in doubt slap a couple more on.

[Dray Prescot]

But how do you feel about options in the program to control how auto naming (of trains) is laid out? Is it worth asking for OR just forget about it?

[gardlt]

My opinion? I think there are various pitfalls. The current system isn't dynamic for any copies, just the primary City A - City B train, as Vegvisir just helped me understand more fully. The current system is actually not bad for auto/manual hybrid use.

What does this new understanding tell me? To get a two-stop train with reversed order all you need to do is go and reverse the stops after the train starts loading. It will start in the right place and everything. Any copies will have the same name, but on the first copy you should correct the order so that all future copies of a copy start in the right place.

I have been exploiting this principle without really understanding it for a long time by buying a copy named City A -> City B 1, but switching it's actual route to City B -> City A. If done quick enough, while train "#0" is occupying the platform, I will have trains starting simultaneously from both ends of a two-stop route. To get a new set of two trains I go to the latest copy then press back arrow to last train then copy that, repeated twice.

[Thineboot]

Besides the fact that I normally play with manual speed thus renaming is just a timeconsuming factor there are scenarios you have to play at normal if you wanna finish as President.

Simple solution to satisfy most players would be an option for freight trains: default/1st station with good (capitalized)/2nd station with good (capitalized). No in-game renaming, just an advanced option you can set in a free or sandbox game as advanced options are not accessable in campain/scenario.

If you wanna sort out all freight add a space in front of the name and they all end up on top of the list. But that's just a convenient side-note.


Destination should be named after the farthest away station (scheduled, not geografically) instead of the last one of the round trip.


Warehouses could be named after the nearest city. And give them longer names for god's sake ;)


As for the numbering system please start numering at 2 and add a 1 to the first train when cloning a train for the first time.


Two stations should be named A and B. I could add better naming conventions but that's simple and would stop conflicting with train numbers... I hope you know what I mean...

[kalypso_Lord MK]

Hey guys,

I am glad you are discussing this topic. It is good to hear that some of your are not happy with the way train route naming is currently implemented while others are just a little unhappy or even think it is let us say "sufficient".

Train route naming has been on my list of potential changes for the community patches but it was dropped in favour for more pressing issues, unfortunatly.

But I will keep a close look on this topic, at latest for a potential RE2 we will have to put more thought into naming conventions for sure!

[Dray Prescot]

I always play with manual pause, so that means that I can rename manually as I please. I was not thinking about the other pause modes when I started this thread topic. But I can see now that for those other pause modes, particularly Trainiac, my questions about Naming of Train Routes and even Warehouse + Rural Sites, matter more.

I suspect in those other pause modes, I would just use the default Names and use the ability to click on a Track to get the Trains that use it.

However, like I said earlier in this thread, I am going to (continue to) rename my Warehouses (particularly at Resource sites) to names like Grain, or Grain/Wood, etc.. For default Train names I could change them just by what order I listed the Stations in the Route manifest, if I want the name different than the old name, the new train can start in the wrong place, but often that is not much of a hassle or bother., and it will correct itself quickly.

to kalypso_Lord MK, glad to be of service in raising the topic. I am also glad I decided to raise it as a separate new message thread.

Now that I have raised this topic I think (suspect) that some game options to control format and order of Stations in default Train names should not be too difficult to do.

When I set up a Train Route there is usually some task to be accomplished that I want to be reflected in the Name of the Route, then I might add additional stations and cargoes, particularly return cargoes, to the Train Route.

To give an example using the Mexican Scenario, I will pick up Cattle at the site (Warehoue/Station that I rename to "Cattle") nearby Oaxica, haul it to Oaxica, and then haul Meat to Veracruz, and then maybe haul Beer (or automatic cargo which could include Beer, Mail and Passengers, and any other Industrial good made at Ceracruz) back to Oaxica. So possibe Route names could be "Veracruz - Meat" or "Oaxica Meat - Veracruz Beer" depending on the style I wanted to use in the Train Name. But I would normally leave the Cattle to Oaxica part of the Route OUT of the Name, the Meat and Beer deliveries are the key functions of the Route. I could even add Sugar from the site SE of Oaxica to the Train Route., and maybe to the Train Route name, or else keep Sugar as a separate Train Route. I could also add Mail + Passengers to the Oaxica to Veracruz leg besides Meat. But whether or not to include Mail + Passengers anywhere in the Route and Route Name is a separate discussion and depends on the size of the Cities and other traffic on the train tracks.

[rff1]

Something that can cause confusion is that when Bloggsville gets a second station the two stattions become Bloggsville 1 and Bloggsville 2. Cloned trains can theredore show as using Bloggsville 2 even though they actually use Bloggsville 1; it's easy to have two different trains labelled Bloggsville 2, and which of the two stations is the cloned train labelled Bloggsville 3 using? The cure is to rename the stations A and B, not 1 and 2

[Dray Prescot]

That is exactly why I changed some of my Station Names to Veracruz A and Veracruz B instead of using the 1 and 2 in the Station Names (before I ever saw Thineboot's message). This could be another of those game options that we could choose. We might even suggest it as a better choice for automatic (default) City Station names to avoid that confusion.

Or you coud use N and S (North and South) or E and W (East and West) in default names for 2 Stations at the same City , which could be different options for default names. I would prefer A and B over N and S or E and W becuase the later depend on the relative placement of the Stations, while A and B is more generic.


added: Or you could leave the first Station's name unchanged and put the modifier only in the second Station's (in the same City) Name. Another possible game option that could be choosen. Ths has the advantage of keeping the Train Names shorter for at least one of the two Cities.

[rff1]

More evidence that the current automatic naming needs amendment, certainly to two stations in the same city being labelled A and B, not 1 and 2. Also all trains should change their names to use A or B, not just the first train of a series of clones.
With the present naming, start with one station in Chicago and one in Toledo, linked by double track.First train (referred to as train A later) is called Chicago<>Toledo. Its clone. train B, is called Chicago<>Toledo 1 and both names are correct.
Now add a second station in Chicago and Toledo. Train A becomes Chicago 1<>Toledo (should be Toledo 1) , train B remains just Chicago<>Toledo 1 (should be Chicago 1). Clone train A and new train C is called Chicago 1<>Toledo 2, which is the wrong station. Clone train B and new train D is called Chicago<>Toledo 2, both stations wrong.
To really confuse matters, run train E between Chicago 1 and Toledo 2. Train E is called Chicago 1<>Toledo 2, which is in fact correct but is the same name as train C. Clone that and you get Chicago 1<>Toledo 3. And then run some trains starting in Toledo 1 or 2 to Chicago 1 or 2 . . .

Using A and B instead of 1 and 2 for the two statiions, and correcting to change the station names for all trains, would give train A as Chicago A<> Toledo A; train B Chicago A<>Toledo A 1; train C Chicago A<>Toledo A 2; train D Chicago<>Toledo A 3; and train E Chicago A<> Toledo B.No confusion.

[Thineboot]

Originally posted by Thineboot:

Two stations should be named A and B. I could add better naming conventions but that's simple and would stop conflicting with train numbers... I hope you know what I mean...

Originally posted by Dray Prescot:

That is exactly why I changed some of my Station Names to Veracruz A and Veracruz B instead of using the 1 and 2 in the Station Names (before I ever saw Thineboot's message). This could be another of those game options that we could choose. We might even suggest it as a better choice for automatic (default) City Station names to avoid that confusion.

Originally posted by rff1:

Using A and B instead of 1 and 2 for the two statiions, and correcting to change the station names for all trains, [...] No confusion.

I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of players out there who came up with similar solutions shortly after running in this problem ;)

As I've said, the simplest way to avoid the basic problem would be changing the code from adding 1 and 2 to the city name to adding A and B. Simple, no new coding, just changing two instructions.