Difficulties beating the AI? It's not because it is cheating.

[FalconerHG]

*** spoliers ahead ***

It feels like there are a few hundred threads about this. I hope the below puts this to rest.

First off, the AI is not cheating.

Cheating implies you cannot do anything to level the playing field, but you can. The AI has been given an advantage: the use of the "easy rail network" type. In return, it pays more for track construction. If you feel this is unfair, you can select this for yourself too.

Why is the AI beating the crap out of me then?

Basically, you're not fast enough.

You're playing the game as you would a simulation. You are thinking too long about what you do. You need decide and expand faster, especially in the first hour of the game. You'll not get up to speed the first few attempts but I promise it will come.

You're mad, prove it!

I'm not going to video my gameplay for an hour, you just have to take my word for it. On "very hard", experienced RE players will usually have double the company value of the AI players within the first two hours of a game.

I am trying, but the AI is too hard

Actually, no, the AI is too simple. The reason it is beating you is because the game is so fast, and they keep up better than you are. You're just too slow. Once you have gained speed, you may even be wishing for harder/smarter AI (depending on what type of player you are).

The AI should use "realistic rail network" if I am
No argument there, and the devs have said they're looking into this.

[chaney]

Originally posted by FalconerHG:

It feels like there are a few hundred threads about this. I hope the below puts this to rest.

Ah, hopeful mankind!

I tend to play slowly, but think during construction so the game time is paused, but for people with good mousing skills, Trainiac seems to work with practice. With my slow play style, you just need to outpace the AI growth, which isn't too hard. Issue bonds, spend on profitable new lines, win.

Ok, here's an actual contribution to the AI debate. I have tried to do some testing to see what the AI pays for track when the player is set to Realistic. (Devs have suggested the AI pays the same as the player when the player uses Easy track. I don't know why they won't tell us the Realistic mode compensation.)

The data are pretty opaque, but it seems be be 2X what the player pays. There was some indication that it started higher and was dropping but data is hard to compile with high precision. I think with what I've learned I might give it another try with more confidence.

If anyone else wants to try, here's a leg up: each Platform adds 11.7 miles to the total track figure, and the AI seemed to pay the same as the player for railroad buildings and engines from what I could track. Earthwork/Bridge/Tunnel costs matter, so look for an AI in flat territory. At the start of the game it is easier to gather data. Once they have a lot of trains the income clutters the data pretty badly. I have not seen any of the anomolies others have reported (discounts buying businesses etc.)

In my testing, I also observed that the AI was building Maintenance at EVERY Station, and did occasionally upgrade City Stations from small to medium. It built a small Station at a single Rural good location, and a large Station when it could pick up a pair of Rural goods.

[Dr John]

What I want to know is how to set the campaign AI to normal. I am playing on normal, but the AI gets to put 80 trains on the same amount of track that I can have 25 because they are in easy mode. I see no way to set the campaign AI to normal mode. It is very difficutl for someone with 25 trains to beat someone with 80 trains. Why isn't there an option for setting the competitors to normal mode?

[vivas]

Originally posted by Dr John:

What I want to know is how to set the campaign AI to normal. I am playing on normal, but the AI gets to put 80 trains on the same amount of track that I can have 25 because they are in easy mode. I see no way to set the campaign AI to normal mode. It is very difficutl for someone with 25 trains to beat someone with 80 trains. Why isn't there an option for setting the competitors to normal mode?

Isn't having a comptetetive AI more important then one which is not able to beat you?

[Dr John]

You have got to be kidding, right? For $50 I expect top notch AI and lots of settings, including the ability to force the AI to use realistic track mode. Please don't make excuses for poor coding by the developers.

[vivas]

Originally posted by Dr John:

You have got to be kidding, right? For $50 I expect top notch AI and lots of settings, including the ability to force the AI to use realistic track mode. Please don't make excuses for poor coding by the developers.

It is an honet question really. I don't know of any game where the AI reaches the standards you mention.

[Dr John]

What standards? That the AI needs to use signals too, and can't have 12 trains on a single line? You have got to be kidding. No regular player would be making such excuses for poor programming.

[jasonbarron]

Yeah OP, I have to call you on your reasoning; that is the very definition of cheating. I want to buy this game so bad my teeth hurt, but I will not as long as the AI cheats. Obviously the dev's ran into a problem they couldn't solve, so instead of delaying the game to fix it they stuck on a bandage and hoped guys like you will carry their water for them.

[genemead]

I agree with the OP.

Everyone wants the AI to play with the same rules you've set and play at the same skill level you do. It doesn't, and it can't. You already know all that, so why do people continue to beat a dead horse to a pulp?

[jasonbarron]

Originally posted by geneomead:

I agree with the OP.

Everyone wants the AI to play with the same rules you've set and play at the same skill level you do. It doesn't, and it can't. You already know all that, so why do people continue to beat a dead horse to a pulp?

Why can't it? I haven't seen a persuasive argument yet for why the AI needs to operate using a totally different ruleset then the player.

[Wenzel]

My personal opinion:

I have a lot of fun optimizing and experimenting. I'm more focused on the tasks (most of them are very easy), rather than my competitors. If it was for me, we could get rid of the competitors alltogether and instead give the player really difficult tasks to master.

Of course it would be great if there was a competent AI using "normal" track-mode. I have my doubts that this is very realistic though. Laying tracks can get insanely complicated. And if it is complicated even for a player, then it's pretty much impossible for the AI. It's the same with all "deep" games: usually, you have to go multiplayer to have a real challenge. Alas, there is no multiplayer in Railway Empire, but then again I don't think it's the kind of game I'd like to play online.

Therefore, the aspect I enjoy most is the logistics part and making my own railsystem work. For this I don't need competitors, but challenges. For example, I might limit myself to a certain amount of platforms per city, a certain amount of rails in between cities, I declare one station a terminal station (tracks may enter the station only on one side) etc. etc.

[Dr John]

The people here saying that the AI can't use switches and signals are just plain wrong. They claim it can't be done, but there are many games out there with AI that could easily do that sort of thing. Maybe the software developers at Kaylpso can't figure it out, but that just means they don't know how to code as well as developers at other studios. I am sure they tried over and over, and they just couldn't make it work, so they gave up and put the AI on easy mode only. I would think that other players would all want this feature, since there is no good reason for not wanting it.

[vivas]

Originally posted by Mogli:

My personal opinion:

Therefore, the aspect I enjoy most is the logistics part and making my own railsystem work. For this I don't need competitors, but challenges. For example, I might limit myself to a certain amount of platforms per city, a certain amount of rails in between cities, I declare one station a terminal station (tracks may enter the station only on one side) etc. etc.

Those challanges sounds like a great change.

[Wenzel]

Originally posted by Dr John:

The people here saying that the AI can't use switches and signals are just plain wrong. They claim it can't be done, but there are many games out there with AI that could easily do that sort of thing. Maybe the software developers at Kaylpso can't figure it out, but that just means they don't know how to code as well as developers at other studios. I am sure they tried over and over, and they just couldn't make it work, so they gave up and put the AI on easy mode only. I would think that other players would all want this feature, since there is no good reason for not wanting it.

I think you underestimate how difficult it must be to program an AI that can create a good rail system in normal mode. There are so many variables. How many stations & platforms are needed in a town? What is the function of each station/platform? Are the platforms accessed by both sides or only one? Evasion lanes? Two tracks or one? If two tracks: differentiated by good type (freight/express) or directional? Each poses its own problems if you want to split off a track. If several tracks need to converge onto one platform, in what order do you join them together? How many trains can be sustained on individual track-sections? Do you go for a circular or linear system, or a mix of both? Are your systems joined together or do you keep them seperated? Do you use empty locomotives (unload all?) - if so, you can lay down tracks very differently (short evasion tracks). Also, the maximum curve-radius of tracks is quite an intricate topic.

To be honest I don't know of many games that pose such complicated challenges to their AI. There are so many decisions to be made. I doubt that an AI could make decisions as efficient or clever as a player.

[vivas]

Originally posted by Dr John:

The people here saying that the AI can't use switches and signals are just plain wrong. They claim it can't be done, but there are many games out there with AI that could easily do that sort of thing. Maybe the software developers at Kaylpso can't figure it out, but that just means they don't know how to code as well as developers at other studios. I am sure they tried over and over, and they just couldn't make it work, so they gave up and put the AI on easy mode only. I would think that other players would all want this feature, since there is no good reason for not wanting it.

For me counts that the endresult anjoyable is, and RE gives me a pretty fun time.

[Dr John]

It is a matter of programming, and using logical rules that if implemented, make a functioning network. The maps are static, so that makes it much easier. The AI in Railroad Tycoon used the same rules as the players. Face it, you all know they tried to make it work, and they just couldn't. That is why the AI gets to play by different rules. In games like Forged Alliance, that is called cheating mode for the AI.