[Impossible] Scenario: The East 1830

[Schutzengel]

I tried it 3 times. Failed 100% 3 times.

New York has Lumber + Furniture to export. No neighboring city needs these. New York needs an abundance of resources to grow. Most are missing. The rest are very close to competitors. Competitors both start in open terrain with an abundance of cities to choose from.

The staring money is not enough to build the 750k tunnel to Syracouse. Baltimore needs Cotton to grow in order to receive Lumber from New York, but Cotton is next to both Competitors and far off. Albany needs Grain in order to grow, which is a long mountainous route away.

Pittsburgh / Buffalo / Syracouse can only be reached by a very long route through the mountains near Baltimore. Alternatively, getting to Norfolk / Charlotte requires several bridges and is also a long route behind Washington. Both routes are capped off by chance by both competitors.

After 3 years (time limit) I got New York to around 60% and able to slowly grow. But there was not enough time to be able to do so. In my opinion this scenario is nearly impossible to complete.

I propose an additional 1 mio of starting money in order to offset the massive disadvantages in comparison to both competitors and allow tracks to be laid towards Syracouse / Buffalo / Pittsburgh or Norfolk / Charlotte. Alternatively, Cotton could be placed near Baltimore in oder for it to grow and receive lumber from New York.

Additionally, Scenario: The East 1830 is the only scenario that starts in 1830 and the reason Id still like to play it. Please add some other scenarios that start in 1830 and fix this one, Thanks !

[Mansen]

I doubt it is impossible - But I haven't tried it myself personally, to see exactly where the challenge and possible workaround are.

Competition shouldn't be an issue, since farms will produce as much as is in demand (they auto-upgrade, unless you buy them yourself, to earn more from production), and cities don't need a ton of Corn, Milk and such to sustain and grow.

[wcbarney]

Nah, it's not impossible at all. I actually completed this one on the first try at the "Presidential" level (brags a lot). It's been a week or so since I played it, though, so I forget any specific details. Building an expensive tunnel to Syracuse definitely isn't necessary, nor is it necessary to build a tunnel to Pittsburg. Couple of suggestions:

1. Go to options and select "Contour lines," (under "Game Play") if you haven't already done so. The contours reveal the terrain during track laying and station construction. You will find that there are paths on which to lay your tracks at less than 5% grade the entire way. Maybe twice the distance as a tunnel, but only costs a fraction as much.

2. While you're still in options, select "Scroll at screen edge" (under "Controls") so that you don't have to use the stupid and combersome "WASD" keyboard route in order to navigate on the map.

3. If you run short of money at the get-go, then go to your company screen -- then 3 clicks to the right 'til you get to the banking page, and take out two bonds which will get you about $600K cash money.

4. Don't worry if the resources needed by New York are close to competitors; just build a small station on the resources and start transporting them to New York. If the competitor complains then to hell with him/her.

[Ric]

Bit late here. But in case anyone is still reading this: The key to this scenario is building a museum in NY early on, so the city can grow with only 50% satisfaction.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Hasentiger:

Bit late here. But in case anyone is still reading this: The key to this scenario is building a museum in NY early on, so the city can grow with only 50% satisfaction.

Yeah I need to do that with Baltimore in the second campaign. Failed it twice now because the city jsut didnt wanna grow.

I also need to pay more attention to providing the goods necessary for the city to grow. In other words start setting up express rail lines with manual loading to ensure they are bringing enough goods needed.

[chaney]

Just a nitpick with your word choice ... "express goods" means mail and arguably passengers, which don't make a City grow. The other products that are in demand are the key to City growth. I don't think you meant to imply anything wrong, I just didn't want others reading it to think Express has anything to do with growth.

[vran1]

Well I will add my two cents worth. This is without doubt a very hard scenario. Mostly due to the lack of funds early. I tried warehouses. I tried many things. I failed often. I finally just finished it. Getting over the first hurdle is hard because as mentioned you need to keep your satisfaction level up in NYC to be able to grow the city. So supply is key. There are 4 resources near NY that are useful. Grain, Milk, Veggies and Wood. Small Stations there linking into a single rail line for 3 and coming in from the top for the wood...you can save some money. It may be advantagous to move the NY rail station to get a better (Cheaper) crossing of the river. While building a Museam is crucial. It cannot be done till you first get the pop up to over 60k. Once you do that...keep trying to add things to get higher than 60%. Albany will help with that because it can make beer. Baltimore and Washington can help generating revenue from mail and passengers as well as Albany. When you need Cotton that is gotten from Near Pittsburg. So carefully as suggested...use the contour feature and weave a path up to Pittsburg and on out west a bit to the cotton. You will need it to make cloth for the Dress maker in Baltimore to start sending dresses to NY as soon as you can since...you need 100 and while you may get through the pop issue...that also can stop you cold. Anyway...this is how I just started and managed to finish this one.

[Didz]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1444982658
Certainly not impossible as I've already completed it, as have a number of other players. Certainly doesn't need to be made easier as the challenge is to work out how to grow New York, so making it easy would ruin the challenge.

As to the specific challenges you mention:

1. 'The Tunnel to Syracuse?'
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1444985757
I didn't build a tunnel to Syracuse, and I'm not sure why you needed to.

2. 'Baltimore needs cotton to grow.'
There is actually no requirement to grow Baltimore, and the suggestion that you need to grow it in order that it will accept lumber from New York is spurious and shows a lack of understanding about how city growth is determined. Bottom line is that export goods have little to no impact on city growth, only fulfillment of demand matters. So, forget Baltimore unless you need it to produce something that New York wants. In fact. I built a Paper Mill in Baltimore late game because New York wanted paper, but that decision was based upon what New York wanted not what Baltimore wanted.

3. 'Pittsburgh / Buffalo / Syracouse can only be reached by a very long route through the mountains near Baltimore.'
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1444989309
I think you need to review your network strategy. I never even bothered going to Pittsburgh, its not a requirement to do so. The farthest I went was Buffalo and I just went round the mountains not through them. Which is you rightly say is far too expensive.

4. 'Alternatively, getting to Norfolk / Charlotte requires several bridges and is also a long route behind Washington.'
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1444991350
Likewise the farthest south I bothered going was Norfolk and that was really unecessary. You really don't need a huge network to beat this challenge, which is basically a question of growing New York to 250k population. Everything else is gravy and is easy to achieve.

5. 'Both routes are capped off by chance by both competitors.'
You can basically ignore the competition in this scenario. They are annoying, but irrelevant. Let them squabble over the rest of the USA, all you need to focus on is growing New York, and that doesn't need a huge network so let them waste their money on growing one.

Conclusion
It sounds to me as though you set out to make this scenario as difficult as possible for yourself, and succeeded admirably. However, that isn't a justification for making it easier for everybody. Some of us like the challenge.

I think the key understanding required to complete this challenge is how to use warehouses effectively.

I used two warehouses to beat it.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1444999480
One in New Jersey supplied and re-distributed goods between New York; Baltimore and Albany.

The other in New York (State) supplied the city of New York; Albany and Syracuse.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1445002397
No tunnels were used at all in delivering their goods.

[Rhosta]

Both Lumber and Furniture are going to help you grow New York a great deal, since you need to provide only lumber, which ensures that city is going to be supplied by 3 different resources.

As for other resources they arent that far, you just need to be careful with track placement to avoid high cost caused by earth works, bridges and tunnels.

I suggest to start with passenger and mail trains and connect as many cities as possible. They will move much faster and will have much higher profit. That will help you get enough money.

Finally start to modify infrastructure for freight trains. At this time you will have trains strong enough to pull freight and given the amount of resources needed for new york, you can remove passenger&mail trains to free up the routes.

[rff1]

Rhosta - Lumber and furniture are no help at all. What New York wants for these is Wood, which is fortunately handy as are grain and veg. Milk is a bit farther away: corn is quite a long way and meat is distant. As for tunnels, I have not yet been faced with a situation where one was necessary; going round the mountains will be longer but oh so very much cheaper.

Didz - an impressive rail network in 1838, but what I'd like to see is your situation in mid and late 1830. It's the first two tasks that I find difficult.

[gardlt]

If it helps, this is from my play without bonds which I took to a 20/20 score, total time 4 years 2 months. Trainiac, at 50% speed. Didn't build maintenance instead used frequent replacements. You can see that there is no bypass of NYC yet. I only build that once the station was clogging. A feature of my play was to save early to develop the Cotton-Cloth-Clothing chain under my control, so I expanded very little in the early game. The Grain spur is double track, the rest are single.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1446407198
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1446401669

[vran1]

Because of limited funds early...you do have to be very selective in your routes and placement of stations. But as many have mentioned...getting New York to grow is pretty critical. No where else matters really. You have Grain...which NY will take. Veggies, milk and wood. All within a reasonable range. The cows are worthless unless you get to Pittsburg. Which in time is a good thing to do as it not only supplies NY with meet and finally boots...but also has a Cloth producer which with a cotton farm next to it can supply Baltimore with needed closth so they can produce the other hard to get item which NY^ requires for one of the taks...dresses. There is a resonably cheap route north to Pittsburg that is longer but can be done with very little grades. Just follow the contour lines, avoid tunnels and its very doable. And as has been mentioned...be sure to get a museam in NY as soon as possible. Which means after pop 60K is reached.Then slowly as you expand area...keep adding resources that NY wants...Salt...Chees from Washington...Beer from Albany...and so forth and so on. But only buy small stations for reseources at first.

[rff1]

gardit - in July 1830 my layout differed significantly from yours only that I had Baltimore, not Syracuse. But NYC was only at 67K pop and 60% with a museum, to buy which I had had to take out a $267K bond, and I had just $23K cash, not your $139K with no bond. It took NYC until Mar 3 1831 to reach the 80K target, almost a year later than in your game. Obviously your income was far higher than mine, but why and how ?
I play at Normal. If I tried Trainiac, I'd probably fail the first task before connecting Albany . . .

[Didz]

Originally posted by rff1:

Didz - an impressive rail network in 1838, but what I'd like to see is your situation in mid and late 1830. It's the first two tasks that I find difficult.

I was going to apologise and say that I only have the save from the end of each campaign, as normally I go back and tidy up by deleting all my earlier saves. But when I checked i discovered that I had forgotten to tidy up after completing Metropolis and so I can show you 1830.

Metropolis: September 1830
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1446848029
This is the situation quite early in the game and at this point no tasks have been completed and the 'FoD' in New York is only 56%. So it hasn't started growing yet.

However, it shows my opening strategy which was to create a three station hub consisting of Baltimore (Meat); New York, and Albany(Beer). The issue right from the outset is that New York has a crap starting configuration with only a Sawmill and Furniture Industry and nobody wants Timber or Furniture this early in the game. So, to get New York growing you need to provide it with a steady supply of Beer and Meat, which is what I'm trying to do in the screenshot above.

Metropolis: November 1830
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1446855649
This is the situation two months later and as you can see my initial strategy is working. A steady flow of Beer and Meat into New York has increased its FoD to 71% and the city is growing. It currently has a population if 62,203 and as you can see I am beginning to tag other rural industries that supply goods that New York demands and I've created small stations to reserve them. I think some of these may have been built to claim connection bonuses, as there is no immediate threat from competitors.

Metropolis: March 1832
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1446868920
Mission accomplished! New York has reached a population of 102,448 with a current FoD of 69%.

I'm now focussing on the second task to deliver 100 clothing to New York and as you can see I've begun delivering cotton to Albany and I've bought a Textile Mill in Albany to produce the cloth.

Annoyingly Smythe has bought a Tailor in Baltimore. so I have no direct control over the manufacture of the clothing. However, I have created a Freight Line from the New Jersey Warehouse to Albany which is delivering goods to Albany and returning to the warehouse with cloth. I just need to complete the three way hub by linking the warehouse to Baltimore and clothing should begin to flow to New York.

Thats a bit more info than you asked for, but I thought you'd be interested in when New York hit 80k population. From memory I think it was actually early in 1832, as it was well over by September.

PS: Checking subsequent saves I think I reloaded after March 1832, because I notice that in later saves I own the Tailor in Baltimore. So, I must have lost the auction to Smythe and then reloaded and tried again once I had more money.

[Bored Peon]

The issue I have with the scenario is your competitors and the random industries being built.

Getting that first set of objectives was done fairly easy. Even though you have no real output for the planks and furniture providing logs does help your growth. Providing 1 train of milk, 2 of grain, then the supply of meat and beer should be enough to finish that objective.

Where I keep struggling is the supply 100 clothing. New York simply refuses to create demand to ship it in. Then depending upon the competitors and random industries it becomes a pain to get a good set up for cloth and clothing. Mostly because a large quantity of cloth gets eaten by New Yorks demands.

I think the big key is having enough capital or bond slots free to buy and place the necessary industries. Like placing a meat factory in Baltimore at the start is great. However that can deplete your funds enough that you are unable to place the alcohol and cloth factories in Albany/Syracuse.

[rff1]

The AI is my most dangerous opponent. Having set up my basic tracks by Jan 4, 1830, I proceeded to create some trains which took me to Jan12, by which time the AI had put a tailors in the second Baltimore slot, so no meat for NY, and Albany ran out of beer very quckly. Later, in 1832, the AI built a paper mill in Syracuse (no weavers near the cotton) and a toolworks in Albany (nowhere available for a distillery).I did get NY up to 80K in Mar 1831, but to do that I had had to take out a bond to buy the museum back in May 1830 when NY was at 63K and a miserable 59% satisfaction; after that it flickered between 58% and 62% . Ten months to grow by 17K.