Spec Ops: The Line

Spec Ops: The Line

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Santa Six Mar 26, 2014 @ 11:40am
[Spoilers] Help me understand the story.
Can I get a short summery of the story? Or explain what was real. I started questioning and became somewhat confused once I realized he was suffering from psychosis. So what was the big twist and what was it trying to teach me?

Last edited by Tito Shivan; May 14, 2014 @ 11:47am
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Showing 1-15 of 66 comments
djalma Mar 26, 2014 @ 2:55pm 
(Spoilers) Bruce Willis is dead the whole time.
CordedUberator Mar 26, 2014 @ 6:39pm 
The big twist is that Konrad is dead and Walker's been hallucinating much of the events of the game. Walker is trying justify to himself that he's a hero and a good guy, so he was trying to put the blame on Konrad so he could pretend to be the savior.

It's a jab at the glorification of war and the way we try to play hero in so many shooters nowadays.
Last edited by CordedUberator; Mar 26, 2014 @ 6:39pm
Santa Six Mar 26, 2014 @ 10:18pm 
The 33rd and my squad mates are still real and died? Only the situation was in his mined? So did I do a terrible thing all in all?
GetMoist Mar 28, 2014 @ 9:18am 
This is what happened in short;
All through the game you were killing people. They weren't really bad people, they were American soldiers and civillians that you were only killing because of a missunderstanding. You try to go into Dubai and save the day but do nothing but kill and destroy. That takes its toll on the men, particularly Walker. After killing those civillians with the white phosphirus, his mind couldn't take the truth of what he was doing, so he began imagining Konrad talking to him, giving him someone to blame other than himself. He still kept killing and doing bad things, he was just constantly justifying it with "It's Konrad's fault, he needs to pay." This tricks the player into seeing the 33rd as the bad guys and continue the delusion that they are still a hero. The whole game still happened, but the game just became clouded with hollucinations as Walker does bad stuff. The best way of figuring this out is watching the transisions. Whenever there's a fade to white, it means that Walker is hullucinating.
Santa Six Apr 5, 2014 @ 10:03pm 
So they sold us a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ $60 rubik's cube with a repeated corner so we can never solve it?
I take back my 8/10. The story isn't all it has going for it because it dosn't have one. A riddle isn't a story.

Thanks for clearing things up guys. The game was fun going in fresh. I would never have played it If i'd seen the video first.
Metsakurat Apr 6, 2014 @ 3:09am 
Walker never actually started the firefights. He went in to help people...all the killing they did in the game was actually self defense.
The radio man had the power to tell "his" troops to stop shooting at Walker and his men. Instead he just told 'em "Did you think you can just walk in here harr harr harr" and enjoyed soldiers getting ripped apart while sitting in a comfy chair. I blame the radio man and the other lunatics that were in the game.
There were guys killing innocents, the special ops guy who wanted to rid the town of water for no good reason...Walker and his men were, in fact, the only ones left who actually tried to help everybody.
What they got themselves into was totally out of their hand...out of their control. Sure, Walker did hallucinate but not because he was guilty of his action...no, because he was forced into doing horrible things (and he he felt guilty, he felt horrible for what he HAD to do) he never wanted to do. Walker and his men were forced into these action just as much as us, the gamers, were forced into them.

Altho the game tries to tell us that Walker is a monster and blablabla...he really isn't. Think about the game. Everything that happened...none of it really was his fault.
Last edited by Metsakurat; Apr 6, 2014 @ 5:06am
Wilm Apr 6, 2014 @ 5:40pm 
Originally posted by Metsakurat:
Walker never actually started the firefights. He went in to help people...all the killing they did in the game was actually self defense.
The radio man had the power to tell "his" troops to stop shooting at Walker and his men. Instead he just told 'em "Did you think you can just walk in here harr harr harr" and enjoyed soldiers getting ripped apart while sitting in a comfy chair. I blame the radio man and the other lunatics that were in the game.
There were guys killing innocents, the special ops guy who wanted to rid the town of water for no good reason...Walker and his men were, in fact, the only ones left who actually tried to help everybody.
What they got themselves into was totally out of their hand...out of their control. Sure, Walker did hallucinate but not because he was guilty of his action...no, because he was forced into doing horrible things (and he he felt guilty, he felt horrible for what he HAD to do) he never wanted to do. Walker and his men were forced into these action just as much as us, the gamers, were forced into them.

Altho the game tries to tell us that Walker is a monster and blablabla...he really isn't. Think about the game. Everything that happened...none of it really was his fault.

Not true.

Everyone in the game had their reasons for what they did and surpsingly they all had the best of intentions. All that Konrad, the 33rd, and the Radioman wanted to do was to help. Even the CIA felt what they were doing was for the greater good by silencing everyone in Dubai to prevent a major war that would have caused even greater suffering.

The only real villian in the game was Walker. While his intentions were noble, his misguided attempt to be the hero had severe consequences. Walker refused his original orders when he encountered survivors and decided to enter the city. Him entering Dubai resulted in the breaking of the peace treaty between the 33rd and the insurgency and caused hostilities to continue. Radioman and the 33rd didn't trust nor knew who Walker was and suspected him to be working for the CIA or other party. Walker continues to wander deeper into Dubai and commits his atrocity, albeit accidentally. Instead of owning up to his mistake, Walker's psyche breaks and he convinces himself that his hands were forced by Konrad and the 33d. Walker then meets Riggs and under the guise of saving people, he helps him eliminate all the remaining water in Dubai, dooming all the survivors. Eventually, Walker finishes off the 33rd and confronts Konrad and his little war on who he believed to be the bad guys blows up completely in his face. Walker realizes that had he never entered Dubai, none of what had happened would have happened and that Konrad was simply a manifistation of his own guilt and self-loathing.

I do agree with you on one part, Walker isn't a monster, he's just done monsterous things like murdering an entire city. As I said above, Walker like all the other characters in the game simply did what they thought was best and wanted to sincerely help people (well except for Riggs, but I can understand why he did what he did), he just went about it the wrong way. Walker is the main villian of the game, but he is a tragic and unwitting one.
Last edited by Wilm; Apr 6, 2014 @ 5:47pm
Metsakurat Apr 7, 2014 @ 12:01am 
I just finished the game the 3rd time. Walker did only ONE mistake: He didn't radio in as soon as he discovered that something was going on...something that he didn't understand. He should have radiod in and ask for guidance or for escort out.
The 2nd mistake he did was raining white phosphorus on the 47 innocent people...but that really wasn't exactly his mistake. Adams was the first one to suggest it. Walker only agreed with him...besides, they had no choice. They thought they were hostiles (and who wouldn't ? Everybody in this city up to that point tried to kill them) so we can count this under self defense aswell.

Walker started losing his mind and hallucinating after the white phosphorus incident because he felt guilty.
But really, everything up to that point was self defense. The 33rd simply started shooting everybody who had a gun...even without asking any questions or trying to reason with anyone.
33rd suspected that Walker worked for CIA ? Sure, they did. Is that a reason to open fire on Walker and his men ? No...33rds motto seemed to be: Fire first, then ask questions. 33rd were trigger happy lunatics.
Walker didn't break the treaty either...as i said: Self defense. 33rd started shooting at Walker without any reason at all. He simply returned fire. There are many moments in the game where Walker shouts: "Return fire!" They even shouted "Cease fire! We're not CIA!" or "Don't shoot! We're friendlies!" Walker and his men TRIED not to kill anyone at first but the 33rd never listened. The 33rd didn't want to talk. They wanted to kill.

We can actually blame CIA in this conflict: CIA drove the citizens against 33rd. The civz were divided after that: Some were given guns and fought with the CIA and others just tried to get help from the 33rd.
33rd and CIA + the civz that now supported CIA were now in war with each other.
Massacres were alrdy happening and would have continued even without Walker. Walker just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
33rd made the mistake of confusing Walker with the CIA. If 33rd would have used their brains instead of their guns then Walker might have ended up with the 33rd and maybe, just maybe, the water supplies would have been saved.
I blame the 33rd and CIA way more than i blame Walker.
Last edited by Metsakurat; Apr 7, 2014 @ 12:06am
Metsakurat Apr 7, 2014 @ 4:04am 
Hmmm...Walkers team also sees executed soldiers. Executed either by CIA or...maybe the 33rd themselves. It's still possible that, after Konrad died, the 33rd got divided and went war with each other. One half wanted to play god in Dubai (much like Kurtz played god in Vietnam if you've seen Apocalypse Now. It can be a temptation) and the other part just wanted to help the civz.

Gould said that the CIA went in looking for survivors but found Dubai torn in part in a warzone - This indicates that the 33rd indeed was already in war with itself.
Besides, the 33rd made truce/treaty with who ? They went rogue! They had to know that one day the army will come for them and they will go to military prison for abbandoning their duty. Furthermore, they didn't contact the U.S Army or anyone outside Dubai so they had noone to make treaty/truce with - So the "truce" ♥♥♥♥ is just either nonesense gibberish or the 33rd made truce between themselves (they went to war with each other and then maybe after awhile they made truce again).

Whatever the case, it's quite obvious that 33rd had gone somewhat insane in Dubai and they were trigger happy bastards.

EDIT: 33rd captures and tortures Gould at some point. You could also see them kill civilians. They obviously didn't have good intentions anymore.
You also run into dead civilians. Killed with white phosphorus by the 33rd. CIA didn't kill civs, they only armed them. So who did it ? The 33rd.

Walker did horrible things in the game. I totally agree. But he had no choice. He never wanted any of this to happen.
The 33rd, however, were the true monsters. Killing civilians, CIA, american soldiers...at no point did they show that they were peaceful or willing to talk and brutally executing and murdering civilians is a good example of it.

Just play through Chapter 7 again. You can see The 33rd shooting a woman in the head and execute 2 more men if you choose to rescue Gould or fail to rescue the civs.
Last edited by Metsakurat; Apr 7, 2014 @ 4:13am
Daddy Shark Apr 7, 2014 @ 9:14am 
Really, I think Walker is dead the whole time and being forced to live out his greatest mistakes over and over again. He remembers the flashback from the beginning of the game "didn't we already do this?!". Real, solid objects (wooden dummies) are placed in his path during the tripped out heavy fight.

There's something more than Walker just being nutso going on here.
CordedUberator Apr 7, 2014 @ 4:41pm 
Originally posted by Metsakurat:
Hmmm...Walkers team also sees executed soldiers. Executed either by CIA or...maybe the 33rd themselves. It's still possible that, after Konrad died, the 33rd got divided and went war with each other. One half wanted to play god in Dubai (much like Kurtz played god in Vietnam if you've seen Apocalypse Now. It can be a temptation) and the other part just wanted to help the civz.

Gould said that the CIA went in looking for survivors but found Dubai torn in part in a warzone - This indicates that the 33rd indeed was already in war with itself.
Besides, the 33rd made truce/treaty with who ? They went rogue! They had to know that one day the army will come for them and they will go to military prison for abbandoning their duty. Furthermore, they didn't contact the U.S Army or anyone outside Dubai so they had noone to make treaty/truce with - So the "truce" ♥♥♥♥ is just either nonesense gibberish or the 33rd made truce between themselves (they went to war with each other and then maybe after awhile they made truce again).

Whatever the case, it's quite obvious that 33rd had gone somewhat insane in Dubai and they were trigger happy bastards.

EDIT: 33rd captures and tortures Gould at some point. You could also see them kill civilians. They obviously didn't have good intentions anymore.
You also run into dead civilians. Killed with white phosphorus by the 33rd. CIA didn't kill civs, they only armed them. So who did it ? The 33rd.

Walker did horrible things in the game. I totally agree. But he had no choice. He never wanted any of this to happen.
The 33rd, however, were the true monsters. Killing civilians, CIA, american soldiers...at no point did they show that they were peaceful or willing to talk and brutally executing and murdering civilians is a good example of it.

Just play through Chapter 7 again. You can see The 33rd shooting a woman in the head and execute 2 more men if you choose to rescue Gould or fail to rescue the civs.

First, the 33rd made a treaty with the civilian faction that the CIA set against them.

Second, no, the 33rd were not trigger happy. They were trying to protect the civilians not fighting against them, as evidenced at The Nest and at the WP scene. In a desperate situation, they had to make some brutal and tough calls, though, they have reasoning for it, given their current situtation. They killed civilians because Gould wouldn't give up info they needed to protect the water. Water that they could deny their enemies but didn't.

The 33rd killed with WP, yes. But we can tell they are insurgents in the fact that it's to send a message, again, in a desperate situtation, though they did mercy kill the people at least. And your argument about the CIA being innocent in killing civilians? Really? They armed the insurgents and told them to fight the 33rd with the sole purpose of getting both the civilians and 33rd killed. The CIA was far from innocent and intentionally causing trouble to destroy any semblence of order. The 33rd were desperate because of the nervous truce, an uncertain friend/foe, and overall always on the verge of dying a slow painful death of dehydration and heat. It's hard to blame them without ignoring huge segments of the game and their situation.
Last edited by CordedUberator; Apr 7, 2014 @ 4:42pm
Wilm Apr 7, 2014 @ 7:20pm 
Originally posted by Metsakurat:
Hmmm...Walkers team also sees executed soldiers. Executed either by CIA or...maybe the 33rd themselves. It's still possible that, after Konrad died, the 33rd got divided and went war with each other. One half wanted to play god in Dubai (much like Kurtz played god in Vietnam if you've seen Apocalypse Now. It can be a temptation) and the other part just wanted to help the civz.

Gould said that the CIA went in looking for survivors but found Dubai torn in part in a warzone - This indicates that the 33rd indeed was already in war with itself.
Besides, the 33rd made truce/treaty with who ? They went rogue! They had to know that one day the army will come for them and they will go to military prison for abbandoning their duty. Furthermore, they didn't contact the U.S Army or anyone outside Dubai so they had noone to make treaty/truce with - So the "truce" ♥♥♥♥ is just either nonesense gibberish or the 33rd made truce between themselves (they went to war with each other and then maybe after awhile they made truce again).

Your events of the game are very skewed.

These are the actual events of the game before Walker arrives in Dubai.

Dubai is besieged by the worst sandstorms in history and thousands of civillians are abandoned by the city's goverment. Konrad volunteers himself and the 33rd to evacuate Dubai and save the survivors. Konrad and the 33rd are ordered to abandon the evac and the civillians by the US, instead they defy that order and choose to stay to help the survivors. The 33rd attempt to evac the survivors, but the stormwall has intensified and made any evac attempt impossible. Now trapped in the city, Konrad and the 33rd now faced a nightmarish situation by having to deal with not only a sandstorm of biblical proportions, but the panicked survivors and dwindling resources. To maintain order, Konrad instituted Martial Law and had to rule over the city with an Iron Fist or they would all perish. Konrad carries out atrocities throughout Dubai for the sake of order and it begins to have a toll on him and his men. Some of his men become tired of Konrad harsh rule and foolishly, but understandibly, mutiny against him. The mutineers are eventually defeated by those loyal to Konrad and the bodies are displayed about the city to prevent future mutiny (the hanging or torched bodies you see throughout the game). Konrad makes a final raido message and attempts a last ditched Evac attempt, but it ends in a complete disaster with everyone dying. Konrad reaches his breaking point and commits suicide over his failure to rescue the suvivors and extreme amount of guilt of what he had to do to for the sake of survival.

It is roughly around this time when the CIA arrives and they create and lead an insurgency made of up the civillian survivors against the 33rd for the purpose of wiping everyone out in the city. Alhough, the 33rd and the Insurgents reach a peace agreement and cease fire.

This is when Walker walks into the scene and shatters the peace treaty when he stumbles upon the Insurgents along the highway. The Insurgents believe him to be part of the 33rd to take them away to the interment camps, but before Delta can clear up who they really are, they overhear Walker and Adams conversing about how to kill them causing the Insugents to panic and open fire. The remaining Insugents misunderstand the situation as an attack by the 33rd, putting an end to the peace treaty and continuing the war once again.

Originally posted by Metsakurat:

EDIT: 33rd captures and tortures Gould at some point. You could also see them kill civilians. They obviously didn't have good intentions anymore.
You also run into dead civilians. Killed with white phosphorus by the 33rd. CIA didn't kill civs, they only armed them. So who did it ? The 33rd.

Just play through Chapter 7 again. You can see The 33rd shooting a woman in the head and execute 2 more men if you choose to rescue Gould or fail to rescue the civs.

As they had been practicing before under Konrad, the 33rd sacrificed or killed some civillians to save the rest, hostile or otherwise. The 33rd caught on to what the CIA GREY-FOX team was trying to do, kill absolutely everyone in the city. The 33rd tried to shock Gould into giving up information by killing civillians infront of him, showing Gould what he's trying to accomplish. Notice the line the 33rd Soldier says to Gould "Maybe if you understood the hell you put these people through."
Last edited by Wilm; Apr 7, 2014 @ 9:32pm
Vyse Apr 17, 2014 @ 9:21am 
Originally posted by Metsakurat:
The 2nd mistake he did was raining white phosphorus on the 47 innocent people...but that really wasn't exactly his mistake. Adams was the first one to suggest it. Walker only agreed with him...besides, they had no choice. They thought they were hostiles (and who wouldn't ? Everybody in this city up to that point tried to kill them) so we can count this under self defense aswell.

I don't think you can say that it wasn't Walker's mistake that caused the white phosperous incident nor can you call it self defence.

While Adams did suggest it Walker is in command, so he's well within his rights to disregard the suggestion and go with his own idea or a possible suggestion from Lugo. Because Walker gave the order it's his fault, regardless of what Adams or Lugo say to him prior to the order being given. You could make the argument that Walker was going to use the willy pete anyway and Adams unwittingly validated that course of action, but ultimately Walker has to answer for it. Hell he doesn't even have Lugo check to see what it is the soldiers are doing at the bridge before giving the order and it's not like they were in any imminent danger either. The soldiers didn't even know the team was there until the spotter was launched, so Walker had plenty of time to properly assess what was going on from his vantage point and possibly would have seen the civilians.

I would argue against it being self defence based on the fact that the soldiers at the bridge did neither knew about or fired upon Delta until the spotter was launched. Although the soldiers on the ground are part of the 33rd and would likely have been hostile if they had spotted Delta prior to the spotter going up that particular group didn't fire the first shot, therefore Delta are the aggressors and cannot claim self defence.
Roler42 Apr 17, 2014 @ 9:59pm 
Giving this game a third playthrough... One thing becomes clear when you pay closer attention to the enemy banter and the cutscenes... It's becoming rather clear to me that the 33rd was not really at war with itself... It was all CIA pulling the strings, who's to say agents didn't infiltrate the 33rd or that the greyfox unit didn't dress like 33rd to stir up some war between their civvies and the 33rd?

when you start fighting the soldiers one of them actually claims Delta is Grey Fox, and it also becomes clear that the fight at the hotel well... It's not different from the WP scene...
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