Clarification on what happens during the story! (Chapter 8, spoilers)

[K-ralz]

I just finished the game, about to replay it on FUBAR difficulty for the achievements, and I enjoyed it. Gameplay was kind of garbage, but the story was really interesting. However, one part kind of confused me, and that is Chapter 8 - The Gate.

So that's the part when you use the phosphorus and accidentally kill those civiliians. The 33rd soldiers that you wipe out....were they the ones you had been fighting the entire time? Were they actually trying to evacuate those civillians? Or were they just holding them prisoner? Were these the prisoners that the good members of the 33rd were trying to evacuate from the nest back in Chapter 4?

That's the only part of the story that was confusing to me. From how I understand it, the 'good' members of the 33rd, meaning the the ones who didn't follow Konrad's craziness, were actually trying to help the refugees, and had transported them to a safe place. Then, Delta saw those soldiers, and just assumed they were all bad, so they killed them etc. and the rest of the story continues. (The rest of the story makes sense to me.)

[Dingo]

They were trying to keep civillians safe, i believe one of the injured actually does say "why, we were helping these people."

I also think, it is not neccessary or possible to identify, who belongs to whom. That is kind of the whole issue to begin with. You constantly get caught between sides which on their own behalf, make bad calls regarding your allegiance. It is a mess, mistakes are being made, everyone gets caught in the crossfire. Welcome to Dubai - You A**hole.

[K-ralz]

Originally posted by Dingo:

They were trying to keep civillians safe, i believe one of the injured actually does say "why, we were helping these people."

I also think, it is not neccessary or possible to identify, who belongs to whom. That is kind of the whole issue to begin with. You constantly get caught between sides which on their own behalf, make bad calls regarding your allegiance. It is a mess, mistakes are being made, everyone gets caught in the crossfire. Welcome to Dubai - You A**hole.

Hmm, interesting. I would like to know who those 33rd were though. Because there was obviously SOME 33rd/American soldiers that were bad, but clearly, those ones with the civilians weren't. And if those WERE the civilians from the level in the Nest, then it makes me even more confused.

[Bite]

They are the 33rd you fight all the time, the point of that scene was to make you question who were you really killing and why, the 33rd aren't "evil" or "bad" as you put it.

Yes, those are the civies from the Nest, the 33rd was never going to kill them, your squad simply assumed that out of nowhere and decided to fight the 33rd back at the Nest.

[K-ralz]

Originally posted by Bite:

They are the 33rd you fight all the time, the point of that scene was to make you question who were you really killing and why, the 33rd aren't "evil" or "bad" as you put it.

Yes, those are the civies from the Nest, the 33rd was never going to kill them, your squad simply assumed that out of nowhere and decided to fight the 33rd back at the Nest.

Then how come the radioman was saying all that bad stuff during that scene during the Nest? And clearly the civillians were distraught?

[Bite]

Originally posted by K-ralz:

Originally posted by Bite:

They are the 33rd you fight all the time, the point of that scene was to make you question who were you really killing and why, the 33rd aren't "evil" or "bad" as you put it.

Yes, those are the civies from the Nest, the 33rd was never going to kill them, your squad simply assumed that out of nowhere and decided to fight the 33rd back at the Nest.

Then how come the radioman was saying all that bad stuff during that scene during the Nest? And clearly the civillians were distraught?

The Radioman didn't say anything about killing them though, just about them breaking the Truce and having to relocate them, as he says, "Send them off stage", but you can clearly see the Refugees didn't want to to be "saved" as they very noticeable disagree with Walker, since he killed the ones who were helping them and on top of that destroyed the Nest, which seemed like a solid place to survive in middle of a sandstorm. Naturally the 33rd could seem a bit rough, if you know military protocol it's not all sunshine and flowers even when it comes to protecting or evacuating civilians, but even then, if they have their orders then they have their orders, and even by that point, the 33rd were still trying to help.

[K-ralz]

Originally posted by Bite:

Originally posted by K-ralz:

Then how come the radioman was saying all that bad stuff during that scene during the Nest? And clearly the civillians were distraught?

The Radioman didn't say anything about killing them though, just about them breaking the Truce and having to relocate them, as he says, "Send them off stage", but you can clearly see the Refugees didn't want to to be "saved" as they very noticeable disagree with Walker, since he killed the ones who were helping them and on top of that destroyed the Nest, which seemed like a solid place to survive in middle of a sandstorm. Naturally the 33rd could seem a bit rough, if you know military protocol it's not all sunshine and flowers even when it comes to protecting or evacuating civilians, but even then, if they have their orders then they have their orders, and even by that point, the 33rd were still trying to help.

But there WERE some bad 33rd right? Why else would the CIA have gone there?

[Bite]

Originally posted by K-ralz:

Originally posted by Bite:

The Radioman didn't say anything about killing them though, just about them breaking the Truce and having to relocate them, as he says, "Send them off stage", but you can clearly see the Refugees didn't want to to be "saved" as they very noticeable disagree with Walker, since he killed the ones who were helping them and on top of that destroyed the Nest, which seemed like a solid place to survive in middle of a sandstorm. Naturally the 33rd could seem a bit rough, if you know military protocol it's not all sunshine and flowers even when it comes to protecting or evacuating civilians, but even then, if they have their orders then they have their orders, and even by that point, the 33rd were still trying to help.

But there WERE some bad 33rd right? Why else would the CIA have gone there?

They weren't "bad"...that's the whole point of the game, to make you question what it means to be a hero/good guy.

What happened with the 33rd is that, after a failed evacuation attempt that resulted in the death of thousands of civilians and soldiers, (which caused Konrad to commit suicide) the 33rd split between those that wanted to keep trying to leave (Exiles), and those that wanted to stay and survive (Damned) (The whole MP portion of the game revolves around this conflict), in the end, the Damned take over Dubai and finish off the Exiles (or so is hinted).

And the CIA went there because they needed to cover up Konrad's failed attempt to evacuate the city aswell as the whole 33rd Civil War, would that information reach other cities in the area it would provoke a war with the US, seeing how North American Troops took unauthorized control over an Emirate State, so the CIA weren't there "hunting bad guys".

In the end, IMO, neither the Exiles or the Damned could be considered "evil" at all, naturally in that situation you'd want to take your best chances with what you think is right for surviving, the Exiles wanted to leave, the Damned wanted to stay, and for what it's worth the Damned always preached peace unless provoked, as was the case with the CIA or the insurgents, but regardless they never stopped trying to protect the civilians, in the end it is Walker and his team (techincally with a lot of help from the CIA) the ones who ultimately doom everyone in Dubai, in contrast to the seemingly stable order the 33rd had already established in the area.

[K-ralz]

Okay, that makes sense now. I feel kind of dumb, but I dunno, not everything was super apparent I guess.

There's only one more thing that I noticed (I'm replaying right now) and the chapter where you have to 'decide' which prisoner to kill (right after the gate), if you kill one of them, the four snipers just run away. If you don't, they'll shoot you. Why would they run if you shoot a corpse?

[Bite]

Originally posted by K-ralz:

Okay, that makes sense now. I feel kind of dumb, but I dunno, not everything was super apparent I guess.

There's only one more thing that I noticed (I'm replaying right now) and the chapter where you have to 'decide' which prisoner to kill (right after the gate), if you kill one of them, the four snipers just run away. If you don't, they'll shoot you. Why would they run if you shoot a corpse?

It's an illusion made up by Walker, we can't be sure of what actually happens in that scene, for all we know Walker and his team could've spotted the snipers while the snipers didn't spot them, hence making them edgy, or perhaps they simply weren't there, we can never be sure about that.

Here's a detail, the game has two kind of transitions from one scene to another, when there's a white screen, it means Walker is hallucinating the current events, when there's a black screen, the events are shown exactly as they happened in reality. When the scene with the corpses hits in, there's a very clear white transition.

[K-ralz]

Originally posted by Bite:

Originally posted by K-ralz:

Okay, that makes sense now. I feel kind of dumb, but I dunno, not everything was super apparent I guess.

There's only one more thing that I noticed (I'm replaying right now) and the chapter where you have to 'decide' which prisoner to kill (right after the gate), if you kill one of them, the four snipers just run away. If you don't, they'll shoot you. Why would they run if you shoot a corpse?

It's an illusion made up by Walker, we can't be sure of what actually happens in that scene, for all we know Walker and his team could've spotted the snipers while the snipers didn't spot them, hence making them edgy, or perhaps they simply weren't there, we can never be sure about that.

Here's a detail, the game has two kind of transitions from one scene to another, when there's a white screen, it means Walker is hallucinating the current events, when there's a black screen, the events are shown exactly as they happened in reality. When the scene with the corpses hits in, there's a very clear white transition.

Yeah I know the whole hallucination sequence stuff, it was just the sniper thing that was weird because, that's like an actual firefight.

[Qwar]

There was never Konrad's craziness, there was no "bad" 33rd. You've been killing them because you wanted to be a hero. You bastard.