ACE COMBAT™7: SKIES UNKNOWN

ACE COMBAT™7: SKIES UNKNOWN

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Kerag Oct 29, 2020 @ 2:00pm
Jesus! Add VR Support already!!!
I's not that hard to add a free observation mode and stereoscopic 3D in the game..we dont need specific controls or anything..do what Elite Dangerous did! Just add headset support..thats it!
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Showing 31-45 of 64 comments
bingbean Nov 1, 2020 @ 4:40am 
Originally posted by Kerag:

Not in this case... AC needs to add only stereoscopic effect and throw view axis to the helmet..add couple of resolutions and FOV and thats it..people already doing it..VorpX does it...

It is not so easy, because AC7 use not full 3D cockpits. If you try free camera mod you will notice that the cockpit in AC7 is something like 2,5D texture as an additional layout of HUD.
It is not 3D objekt in 3D world. So if they want add VR support they have to revork all cockpits what is lot of work.
Kerag Nov 1, 2020 @ 5:08am 
Originally posted by bingbean:
Originally posted by Kerag:

Not in this case... AC needs to add only stereoscopic effect and throw view axis to the helmet..add couple of resolutions and FOV and thats it..people already doing it..VorpX does it...

It is not so easy, because AC7 use not full 3D cockpits. If you try free camera mod you will notice that the cockpit in AC7 is something like 2,5D texture as an additional layout of HUD.
It is not 3D objekt in 3D world. So if they want add VR support they have to revork all cockpits what is lot of work.
If cockpits are 2D then how come side views work..and you still can see the internals and stuff? I tried it via VorpX and didnt have any issues regarding that..the only thing is that radar doesent work etc..but that is already made also in VR prtion for PSVR..they just need to move its UI to all cockpits.
Last edited by Kerag; Nov 1, 2020 @ 5:09am
JtDarth Nov 1, 2020 @ 5:09am 
Originally posted by bingbean:
Originally posted by Kerag:

Not in this case... AC needs to add only stereoscopic effect and throw view axis to the helmet..add couple of resolutions and FOV and thats it..people already doing it..VorpX does it...

It is not so easy, because AC7 use not full 3D cockpits. If you try free camera mod you will notice that the cockpit in AC7 is something like 2,5D texture as an additional layout of HUD.
It is not 3D objekt in 3D world. So if they want add VR support they have to revork all cockpits what is lot of work.
Ding!

That's why the PSVR exclusive stuff is....separate. That's why there are a limited number of planes available. The missions were also specifically downgraded in scale to account for the additional hardware limitations provided by VR.


I also highly doubt they will add VR to AC for another reason:
Version parity. Kinda sus to have PC get a whole new shebang that consoles don't, and the community tends not to like it. As demonstrated by the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about the exclusitivity of the PSVR stuff.

AC7 will almost certainly not receive VR support, for a multitude of reasons. AC8, if consoles have full VR by that point, could conceivably have it.

In the meantime, you want 'AC but with VR support'? Pick up Project Wingman when it comes out. Last I checked it runs VR.
It's also basically 'Dev got tired of waiting for AC and decided to make his own', so it feels very much like AC in almost every way, gameplay wise.
JtDarth Nov 1, 2020 @ 5:14am 
Originally posted by Kerag:
Originally posted by bingbean:

It is not so easy, because AC7 use not full 3D cockpits. If you try free camera mod you will notice that the cockpit in AC7 is something like 2,5D texture as an additional layout of HUD.
It is not 3D objekt in 3D world. So if they want add VR support they have to revork all cockpits what is lot of work.
If cockpits are 2D then how come side views work..and you still can see the internals and stuff? I tried it via VorpX and didnt have any issues regarding that..the only thing is that radar doesent work etc..but that is already made also in VR prtion for PSVR..they just need to move its UI to all cockpits.
You can easily fake stuff and make it look real when restricting to certain angles of view. Just look at literally any movie set from, say, the LoTR trilogy (the OG, not Hobbit). Some very tricky but neat things going on in the background there, a great deal of which only function because the camera only has certain angles for the shot.


'they just need to do x'
Did you make AC7? If no, then don't be commenting on the easiness or lack there of relating to adding/changing things. Because we VERY much don't know how the backend structure looks, and it IS a lot more complex to change things than you claim. We already know that the PSVR exclusive stuff was developed separately from the main game and used different assets and mechanics.
Kerag Nov 1, 2020 @ 5:27am 
Originally posted by JtDarth:
Originally posted by Kerag:
If cockpits are 2D then how come side views work..and you still can see the internals and stuff? I tried it via VorpX and didnt have any issues regarding that..the only thing is that radar doesent work etc..but that is already made also in VR prtion for PSVR..they just need to move its UI to all cockpits.
You can easily fake stuff and make it look real when restricting to certain angles of view. Just look at literally any movie set from, say, the LoTR trilogy (the OG, not Hobbit). Some very tricky but neat things going on in the background there, a great deal of which only function because the camera only has certain angles for the shot.


'they just need to do x'
Did you make AC7? If no, then don't be commenting on the easiness or lack there of relating to adding/changing things. Because we VERY much don't know how the backend structure looks, and it IS a lot more complex to change things than you claim. We already know that the PSVR exclusive stuff was developed separately from the main game and used different assets and mechanics.
The fact that its already done by injection already means that its not hard to them... that was done without even source files... this means that its even easier for them. I've done games in my time.. I know what I say...
JtDarth Nov 1, 2020 @ 5:53am 
Originally posted by Kerag:
Originally posted by JtDarth:
You can easily fake stuff and make it look real when restricting to certain angles of view. Just look at literally any movie set from, say, the LoTR trilogy (the OG, not Hobbit). Some very tricky but neat things going on in the background there, a great deal of which only function because the camera only has certain angles for the shot.


'they just need to do x'
Did you make AC7? If no, then don't be commenting on the easiness or lack there of relating to adding/changing things. Because we VERY much don't know how the backend structure looks, and it IS a lot more complex to change things than you claim. We already know that the PSVR exclusive stuff was developed separately from the main game and used different assets and mechanics.
The fact that its already done by injection already means that its not hard to them... that was done without even source files... this means that its even easier for them. I've done games in my time.. I know what I say...
'done by injection means it's not hard'
VorpX doesn't do it well. You yourself admitted it had problems, and even said it was 'hell' to get set up. You are contradicting yourself here.
What VorpX does is force VR like effects on top of the normal space and link camera inputs to look direction, iirc. That's a far cry from proper support, which is much more complex. If you'd 'done games in your time' You would KNOW that.
Kerag Nov 1, 2020 @ 5:59am 
Originally posted by JtDarth:
Originally posted by Kerag:
The fact that its already done by injection already means that its not hard to them... that was done without even source files... this means that its even easier for them. I've done games in my time.. I know what I say...
'done by injection means it's not hard'
VorpX doesn't do it well. You yourself admitted it had problems, and even said it was 'hell' to get set up. You are contradicting yourself here.
What VorpX does is force VR like effects on top of the normal space and link camera inputs to look direction, iirc. That's a far cry from proper support, which is much more complex. If you'd 'done games in your time' You would KNOW that.
It had problems related to mouse. When you are in a free view it has a stick effect to the center..you need to drag mouse more to look around... in VorpX mouse input used to simulate head turning... so this stick effect spoils it. It has nothing to do with 3D injection.
VorpX doesent apply effects on top of default ones... it actrually does its own rendering, with multiple ways. And yeah..its a pain to set it up. You have to play around with different settings in order to make it right. However it is possible for a stubborn bystander... we are talking about developers here. To them its a piece of cake.

PSVR has only few missions not because entire game wasnt initially made with VR in mind..but because of PS4 limited performance... those few levels are pretty simple and have no additional props... main compaign does... PS4 cant handle double render on those... we are talking about PC here... if you have enough money to buy a descent VR headset... that means that you also must have enough money to upgrade PC in order to handle that 2xRender.
AC7 VR portion was successfull enough to get a lot of positive feedback on the internet... they should have used that chanse.
Last edited by Kerag; Nov 1, 2020 @ 6:09am
JtDarth Nov 1, 2020 @ 6:48am 
Originally posted by Kerag:
Originally posted by JtDarth:
'done by injection means it's not hard'
VorpX doesn't do it well. You yourself admitted it had problems, and even said it was 'hell' to get set up. You are contradicting yourself here.
What VorpX does is force VR like effects on top of the normal space and link camera inputs to look direction, iirc. That's a far cry from proper support, which is much more complex. If you'd 'done games in your time' You would KNOW that.
It had problems related to mouse. When you are in a free view it has a stick effect to the center..you need to drag mouse more to look around... in VorpX mouse input used to simulate head turning... so this stick effect spoils it. It has nothing to do with 3D injection.
VorpX doesent apply effects on top of default ones... it actrually does its own rendering, with multiple ways. And yeah..its a pain to set it up. You have to play around with different settings in order to make it right. However it is possible for a stubborn bystander... we are talking about developers here. To them its a piece of cake.

PSVR has only few missions not because entire game wasnt initially made with VR in mind..but because of PS4 limited performance... those few levels are pretty simple and have no additional props... main compaign does... PS4 cant handle double render on those... we are talking about PC here... if you have enough money to buy a descent VR headset... that means that you also must have enough money to upgrade PC in order to handle that 2xRender.
AC7 VR portion was successfull enough to get a lot of positive feedback on the internet... they should have used that chanse.
So, again, nothing to actually counter the statement of 'VR isn't easy to implement' beyond the repetition of 'it's a piece of cake'? Yep. Totally someone with no understanding of game development or programming. Injection by layering and shifting viewpoints based on reading the Z-buffer of the game's original render, does not indicate ease of proper support. It indicates a hackjob that still takes a ton of work from the end user to get working, that works outside of the game's actual structure. One that also majorly increases system requirements, as far as I can tell.

Then this second portion just makes me laugh so damn hard, as you somehow managed to miss literally EVERYTHING I said regarding the PSVR missions. They were a lot of work to make, and, in the end, I highly doubt that they substantially drove sales. Then there's version parity and the backlash over PS getting exclusive VR mode.
'a lot of positive feedback'
From the already tiny and non-representative overall PSVR crowd and the massive number of media outlets who would call literally ANYTHING vr on a console amazing.

The game literally only has them because Sony payed out the ass for them, the development team, prior to adding them, had stated they didn't think VR was a good fit for AC due to issues with motion sickness and such, and, after working with it to get PSVR in, that it was 'problematic' to implement.
Version parity is an important factor. How often is it, exactly, that PC versions of multiplayer games get drastic functionality or content differences? Basically never, beyond access to better graphics settings. VR is a lot more than just a graphics setting.
Useless Bunny Nov 1, 2020 @ 7:07am 
Originally posted by Kerag:
And yet valve releases HL(one of the best VR games) game completely based off VR... looks like those 2% actually mean something...

It's not like we are sticking VR in your face.. we are asking for support of VR... not taking the game away from you.. cant understand your BS behaveour..

its like "oh noes..they want to play with a gamepad? No...they must play with a mouse!!! Because I play with a mouse and I dont want them to play with a gamepad!" ..

you guys are a waste...
I want you to read my comment again. Very slowly and very calmly and then think about the kind of reply you gave me.
Useless Bunny Nov 1, 2020 @ 7:19am 
Originally posted by seph13x:
What does what percentage of users using something have anything to do with whether it's better or not?

It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ amazing how you guys type without thinking first.

What does either having VR or not has anything to do with whether it's better or not?

Originally posted by seph13x:
Saying something is better just because it has VR is completely logical as this literally puts you in the cockpit (as far as your perception is concerned) and makes the entire experience completely different. With racing and flying games VR is the perfect medium to make these become more than a niche. You were probably one of those guys 100 years ago saying what's the point of television when you can just listen to the radio.
That's the thing you people just can't understand and you guys are always extremely entitled about. It's YOUR preference. You're picking up a simulator component of realism and saying it's better when in ace combat's case, people might prefer for it to be more arcadey. God knows that VR in Ace Combat's multiplayer would be absolutely unplayable, for example, VR would destroy the PSM factor in the game because people need 3rd person view for that.

Of course giving the OPTION would be fine, I'm just pointing out to you that your claims here of "VR BETTER THEREFORE VR" is not really a fact, it varies from people to people and the fact the technology is absurdly expensive still doesn't help a bit.

Originally posted by seph13x:
I'm not saying Star Wars Squadrons is a better game by itself compared to Ace Combat, I'm saying Star Wars Squadrons having full VR support puts it in an entirely different league before we take anything else into account.
Except you did. Here, let me quote you again:
Originally posted by seph13x:
As short as it is Star Wars Squadrons is a far superior game then AC7 because of the excellent VR support.
Saying that game is short points out you only played the single player mode of that game too.

Originally posted by seph13x:
If Ace Combat also had full VR support then it's also in the same league and could be considered a better game. Literally every new flying game coming out now has VR support as a standard feature. It's such a shame that Ace Combat has dropped the ball here.
That's another thing you guys don't understand: developing VR was a very slow process for the team that made this game. The only 3 very short and basic missions that are available on the PS4 took them almost an ENTIRE YEAR to finish, it actually delayed the game's release. This amount of resources and time for just an absurdly niche market is just not worth it in the big picture. Maybe the devs sucks, who knows, I don't know how it works but I 100% would rather have more normal content than VR delaying things again.
KillerDuck Nov 1, 2020 @ 8:50am 
Originally posted by Kerag:
Originally posted by KillerDuck:
Because they spent hundreds of dollars on a pair of goofy looking goggles to strap to their face so they think everything should cater to them. (I also own a VR headset for disclosure)
Google cardboard? If you would have tried AC7 in VR..youd be begging ...just as i do.
It's not about hundreds of dollars.. it's about the way its played..and in vr AC7 is is outstanding.
You say that as if I HAVEN'T tried it in PSVR. It was good. But 3 short ass missions were not worth what could have been had without them. In the time it took them to do that they could've fixed some of the more IMPORTANT issues this game has such as difficulty balancing, multiplayer balancing and modes, the poorly translated mess of a story, the lack of options in the pc version for graphics settings... any of those being addressed would have made the game overall a better one but instead Sony paid Bamco an assload of money to have a "killer app" for their VR headset. VR IS fun, it IS immersive. However it is NOT worth it if games are going to be lesser experiences for it. It's also just not for everyone and for some people it is completely unplayable (physical disabilities, motion sickness, etc) .

It would be different if they could pull it off without losing anything in the process for AC8 and who knows, maybe they will but PA is a small team of devs and NAMCO has seemingly been doing everything in it's power to justify giving this series the axe for a while now. If VR is going break into a wider market then it needs more than what is essentially a bunch of very immersive and pretty, but hamstrung tech demos with like 10 actually worthwhile experiences among them. I don't think AC7 ever had a chance in hell of being anything more than that. Again though, maybe AC8 will be different if it ever happens.

Also I'm not a dog "begging" for a feature in a video game is kinda pathetic.
Last edited by KillerDuck; Nov 1, 2020 @ 8:58am
bingbean Nov 1, 2020 @ 9:57am 
Originally posted by Kerag:
Originally posted by bingbean:

It is not so easy, because AC7 use not full 3D cockpits. If you try free camera mod you will notice that the cockpit in AC7 is something like 2,5D texture as an additional layout of HUD.
It is not 3D objekt in 3D world. So if they want add VR support they have to revork all cockpits what is lot of work.
If cockpits are 2D then how come side views work..and you still can see the internals and stuff? I tried it via VorpX and didnt have any issues regarding that..the only thing is that radar doesent work etc..but that is already made also in VR prtion for PSVR..they just need to move its UI to all cockpits.
I have no idea how it works, i only tried free camera mod to do better POV with track IR but it don't work because the cockpit view is place on screen as part of HUD. It is hard to explain how it looks like in free camera mod if you don't see it.
I found some videos where some guy try VorpX and he say the cockpit is flat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD_vijtqRnE
Olympic Fighter Nov 1, 2020 @ 12:01pm 
Originally posted by JtDarth:
Originally posted by seph13x:

What does what percentage of users using something have anything to do with whether it's better or not? Saying something is better just because it has VR is completely logical as this literally puts you in the cockpit (as far as your perception is concerned) and makes the entire experience completely different. With racing and flying games VR is the perfect medium to make these become more than a niche. You were probably one of those guys 100 years ago saying what's the point of television when you can just listen to the radio.

I'm not saying Star Wars Squadrons is a better game by itself compared to Ace Combat, I'm saying Star Wars Squadrons having full VR support puts it in an entirely different league before we take anything else into account. If Ace Combat also had full VR support then it's also in the same league and could be considered a better game. Literally every new flying game coming out now has VR support as a standard feature. It's such a shame that Ace Combat has dropped the ball here.
That's the thing, VR doesn't inherently make games better. It depends on how much value you place on VR 'immersion'. Even then, a good game that's locked to VR is still a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ game because over 90% of the market can't access it, and that's before getting into the games that do the 'exclusive hardware' BS and only support certain headsets for no real reason.

VR is still in it's infancy, and is still VERY expensive for consumers. People harping on about how VR is 'so much better' and how games suck for not having it, come across as entitled snobs. Same with the UW users.

VR takes additional work to support, especially when one didn't design the game functions in a way that supports it from the start.

I'll try my best to be fair here:

1. You claim that VR doesn't inherently make games better..........I couldn't disagree more BUT I don't think I could prove my claim. In theory if you prefer to play looking at flat screen there is nothing I can say to that as it's a manner of preference. Maybe you really enjoy playing games in black and white too, who am I to judge. So I would argue that most people once they try high end vr (ps vr almost doesn't meet this criteria to be honest as graphics are horrible) would prefer it by a mile but I can't prove it.

2. You claim that the value depends on your value of immersion as if immersion is the only thing VR offers like a fancy rumble pack or something. The depth of view and ability to quickly look around at your surroundings is an actual gameplay changer. All you have to do is join Star Wars Squadrons multiplayer to see the absolute slaughter of non-vr players to vr players. Aiming is more intuitive, keeping track of enemy ships is easier, the depth perception and ability to look in any direction or lean up in your seat makes your judge of any situation far superior. Hell the multiplayer there died out a ton over the intial weeks as VR players blew non-vr players to hell to make them give up on it. They really should have added an option to separate VR from non-vr players in the matchmaking.

3. You say those of us harping on about VR are entitled snobs, I would say there is a spectrum that varies from you being jealous to me being entitled. If I was advocating that any of these games should be VR exclusive and not allow players without VR headsets to participate because it's not worth it without VR then yes I would be entitled. My self and others in this thread are arguing that VR should be fully supported IN ADDITION to non-vr. We fully get it that VR costs a small fortune and not everyone is able or comfortable to game in VR. In this genre we need to be as inclusive as possible. You constantly going on about how expensive it is and how entitled we are makes you just come across as jealous or something. We're not arguing to take anything away from you, you are arguing to not add something that we would like because you don't want us to have it out of spite (or so it comes across)

4. I'll end by giving you your best point in that VR really needs to be supported from the start and that it isn't necessarily easy to just add after the fact. Yes it shouldn't be that hard to implement the head tracking and viewpoint for VR but this might completely not work with the way the gameplay was set up. I think someone mentioned also the cockpits aren't rendered properly for it amongst other issues that would take time and funds to fix. Perhaps at this point our best hope is native support from the start in AC8 while still fully supporting non-vr as well.

Kerag Nov 1, 2020 @ 1:23pm 
Originally posted by KillerDuck:
Originally posted by Kerag:
Google cardboard? If you would have tried AC7 in VR..youd be begging ...just as i do.
It's not about hundreds of dollars.. it's about the way its played..and in vr AC7 is is outstanding.
You say that as if I HAVEN'T tried it in PSVR. It was good. But 3 short ass missions were not worth what could have been had without them. In the time it took them to do that they could've fixed some of the more IMPORTANT issues this game has such as difficulty balancing, multiplayer balancing and modes, the poorly translated mess of a story, the lack of options in the pc version for graphics settings... any of those being addressed would have made the game overall a better one but instead Sony paid Bamco an assload of money to have a "killer app" for their VR headset. VR IS fun, it IS immersive. However it is NOT worth it if games are going to be lesser experiences for it. It's also just not for everyone and for some people it is completely unplayable (physical disabilities, motion sickness, etc) .

It would be different if they could pull it off without losing anything in the process for AC8 and who knows, maybe they will but PA is a small team of devs and NAMCO has seemingly been doing everything in it's power to justify giving this series the axe for a while now. If VR is going break into a wider market then it needs more than what is essentially a bunch of very immersive and pretty, but hamstrung tech demos with like 10 actually worthwhile experiences among them. I don't think AC7 ever had a chance in hell of being anything more than that. Again though, maybe AC8 will be different if it ever happens.

Also I'm not a dog "begging" for a feature in a video game is kinda pathetic.

Yeah...u'r just a dog barking on the internet... calm down and gfurslf
and for the record... I didnt even read a half of your barking. There is nothing usefull.
Last edited by Kerag; Nov 1, 2020 @ 1:25pm
Kerag Nov 1, 2020 @ 1:29pm 
Originally posted by seph13x:

I'll try my best to be fair here

Dont waste your breath... it's just a bunch of schoolgirls who dont know any better... they even will defend holes in their socks... especially if you'll demonstrate them your new pair of shoes...
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Date Posted: Oct 29, 2020 @ 2:00pm
Posts: 64