Help with Mission 5 (444)

[Pumathang]

This is my very first time playing a game like this, so I'm playing on easy, but after 9 hours I still can't get through Mission 5. I've tried using all the planes available and the different special weapons, and I've watched several youtube videos so I know what I'm supposed to be doing... I just can't. Any tips or advice? Or suggestions for a different game I should play first before attempting one that clearly was not meant for beginners? (I have no experience with the genre so I don't even know what the choices are.)

I usually target the ones with TGT exclusively, which seems to get me further, and I seem to do better with the cockpit camera view. Sometimes I get to the point where there are only 2 or 3 left, but always fail the mission even when I kill them as fast as possible.

Most of the time I get shot down by a missile, since there was really no good tutorial about how to avoid them, and all the strategies I've seen involve turning... which means I lose the targets and it takes quite a while to find them and catch up if I do. (I can see exactly where the targets are on the radar, but it's not very helpful for finding their altitude or figuring out if I'm close enough to lock on.) Sometimes I just fly away from them and point myself in a direction to make the targeting arrow appear in the center of the screen, which seems to help, but I can't do that every time a missile targets me.

Clearly the clouds are the problem, interfering with the targeting system, which seems to be a common complaint... but how do you avoid the clouds when you have to be in a specific area to shoot down the closest incoming targets before they take out the control tower? I tried cranking the gamma way down in hopes of making the targeting system visible more often, which helped a little bit, but not enough.

I had no trouble whatsoever with the first four missions... the only thing I thought was hard about the game was trying to keep the various country and location names straight, but the learning curve for a brand new player is like a solid wall here. Obviously I suck at this, but you'd think after 9 hours even a newbie should be able to beat the level on easy...

[dohh]

I have the exact same issue. Stuck on mission 5 for well over a week. Due to various issues I usually can't play for more than 20 min at a time, 30 at most. And most of these missions so far seem to be at least that long. I wish there was the ability to leave the game and have it resume where you left off, instead of having to restart a mission. I've had to quit out, and start chapter 5 for well over a week, and no matter how well I SEEM to be doing, the mission ALWAYS fails. And I"m playing on easy, as well (as least I THINK I am...would be nice to be able to see those things in a menu without have to restart the storyline all over again to make SURE).
Watched tutorials for this chapter, using the best jet and weapons available. Doesn't mater. Chapter 5 mission always fails.
I also wish the DEVS had put a free mission (or at least a free fly-around) for ALL 20 missions so one can fly around each area without having to beat the mission first. Many games I've played allow free roam (so to speak) without always having to go through a storyline FIRST. THat and an auto-save from where one left off would be a nice thing. I'll NEVER get through 20 missions, let alone 10, at this point. Not every gamer (let alone one who might have family commitments or health issues) can spend 2 or 3 hours at a time in front of a computer. I LOVE this game but apparently even on easy it's NOT...easy, that is.

[Pumathang]

I usually don't have time to play for very long either, so I get frustrated by games that don't have a "quick save" option... at least this one lets you skip all the cutscenes, and it looks like some of the missions have checkpoints so you at least wouldn't have to start from the very beginning if you died... but not Mission 5. Have to start from the beginning every time I die, which just makes it incredibly boring, doing the same thing over and over with no idea whether I've improved (sometimes it just seems like I've gotten worse when I try harder, and sometimes I get just as far by flying around the map at random and shooting whatever I see). I have the entire dialog memorized, and most entertaining part of the entire mission is the variance in what phrase someone uses when Trigger blows up... lol.

I wish the game would give you an option to give up and skip a mission after you die 100 times so you can continue the campaign and at least (hopefully) get better at playing...

[Hammer Of Evil]

what aircraft are you using?

try using one with SP weapon that has much longer range.

if you navigate to the aircraft tree, buy some upgrades for missile range or sp weapon capacity up.

supertomcat features a very long range hard hitting missile (which is no longer manually tracked, wtf, i used to love that from ac6)

if you're on controller, and you have missile alert - hit your afterburner and watch for where the missile was launched. check your close range radar to see the incoming projectile direction. most will track from behind but rare ones will lance you in the radar cone or wing.

if in front of the aircraft, pull up, left, or right very hard by aiming your movement in that direction, and then pull both triggers to do a high g turn. after turning 45-90 degrees, the missile should stop tracking. if it doesnt (like from a sam site) hit your afterburner and you will outrun it. staying in the high g turn too long will cause you to lose too much speed, and it probably will catch your tailpipe.

if behind the aircraft, hit your afterburner (you have infinite fuel, be wasteful.) and make a long turn left, or long turn right. you can out run it if its far. if its close, high g turn left or right, afterburner out of the turn.

press in a movement stick to launch flares if you can't shake it and its way too close.

your ideal way to move is such that your enemy cannot lock your aircraft. if they lock your aircraft you are already losing the fight. verbal cues from your wingmen will point it out (Trigger! bandit on your six! etc)

if you're being too greedy and not dodging missiles when you hear the alert, this is bad. stop this.

yes, you lose the target, but bear in mind where it is in relation to your turn. practice this spatial awareness.

as soon as the bombers appear, break off whatever you're doing and afterburner directly at the bombers. head high altitude to lose your pursuers.

use your right stick to shoulder check when you have a moment.

be very careful going into a dive if your altitude is too low.

you can also move behind ground obstacles to lose missiles.

set difficulty lower if you are dying too often.

[Mystère]

if you want to stay canon and use the f-16, that's fine, but i think the best way to do mission 5 and get a good rank, or any mission in general, is to use any plane with PLSL, like the F-15, MIG-31, or SU-57

[dohh]

How can you set difficulty lower? I thought once you start your story (with chapter one),and pick a difficulty level, then you're always stuck on that difficulty level (without starting storyline/chapter 1) all over again. Am I wrong?

[Hammer Of Evil]

Originally posted by dohh:

How can you set difficulty lower? I thought once you start your story (with chapter one),and pick a difficulty level, then you're always stuck on that difficulty level (without starting storyline/chapter 1) all over again. Am I wrong?

yes, but im saying, if you cant beat it on expert, you're going to sit there doing the same mission over and over again with a steep learning curve.

if you're only on mission 5, that is a half hour or so to get back there if you reduce to easy or smth, and have a chance at learning.

[dohh]

Fair point. PErsonally, I"m pretty sure I started the story on easy mode. Not going to start all over again w'/ mission 1 just to check which diff. mode i'm in. Unfathomable to me that a player can't check to see which diff. mode he's in (as a reminder) before beginning each chapter. Or that you can;t change it from mission to mission. Or that you have to start missions all over again from scratch if you have to leave the game. This one is definitely for the kids who can stay with a game for an hour at a time since they have no life distractions. If I'd have known that I probably would have avoided this one.

[Hammer Of Evil]

Originally posted by dohh:

Fair point. PErsonally, I"m pretty sure I started the story on easy mode. Not going to start all over again w'/ mission 1 just to check which diff. mode i'm in. Unfathomable to me that a player can't check to see which diff. mode he's in (as a reminder) before beginning each chapter. Or that you can;t change it from mission to mission. Or that you have to start missions all over again from scratch if you have to leave the game. This one is definitely for the kids who can stay with a game for an hour at a time since they have no life distractions. If I'd have known that I probably would have avoided this one.

thats also fair.

i think its part of how PA makes their code for this game, a lot of stuff is preloaded in the game menu, and i think thats why you can't change the difficulty, cause it all gets pre-assets when you select the difficulty before running story missions.

and to be frank theres probably a more convenient way to do it, but then it results in much longer loading times.

all that being said, i'd be happy to stream you a clear on this mission, maybe watching another player handle the objectives will help you out. i'd outfit my aircraft with whatever you had available in yours, and demonstrate it.

theres also video for beginner clears for most missions, and ideal aircraft loadouts at different stages of the game.

also, theres no harm in backing out of the story missions, start a free mission (meaning you can just select any mission you've cleared so far) and just farm $$$ there so you can buy more upgrades or aircraft, and that'll probably help you clear the story mode easier.

[Pumathang]

I started on the lowest difficulty setting, so there is no lowering it... lol. Thanks @Hammer of Evil for the tips... I will try them out and hopefully make some improvements. Since I have no previous experience, I think part of the issue is that I'm just not very good at multi-tasking with the radar, environment, and making sense of the constant yammer of my companions. Apparently they expect new players to magically learn and master all these things on their own sometime between mission 4 and mission 5? Or maybe they never expected new players to start with this game in the first place?

I have seen the missiles on the radar (at least I'm pretty sure that's what they are) but they're really hard to see at a glance because they're so tiny.

I didn't realize there was a tactical purpose for the right stick... I thought it was just for people who wanted a cool view.. I've accidentally touched it a few times out of habit, and all I've ever done is disorient myself... my brain just hasn't learned to work that way yet lol.

Is there an indicator on the radar if you've locked on to a target? Maybe I've just missed it because there's so much going on. In the first missions I just relied on the green box turning red... so I am completely at a loss for what to do when you can't see the targeting boxes.

[Hammer Of Evil]

Originally posted by Pumathang:

Is there an indicator on the radar if you've locked on to a target? Maybe I've just missed it because there's so much going on. In the first missions I just relied on the green box turning red... so I am completely at a loss for what to do when you can't see the targeting boxes.

radar indication: targeted object will flash. start or select on your controller changes the radar 'zoom.' careful with this. if you change it, it wont auto-switch to the close range threat detector to show you where missiles are.

when the radar turns red, that means 'projectile incoming'

missiles are small white lines that flash when the radar hud is red. yes it is hard to pick out, and the missile might not always be behind you. the enemy aircraft will just say 'lol i have a bad angle, oh well FIRE MISSILES'

what do i mean by 'bad angle' ? 'MSL' in this game is a heat guided warhead. you want to be behind the aircraft you're locked on to, and when you're following their flight path, the MSL has the optimal tracking angle. a small dialogue green box will also say 'FIRE' when you're in the right position. try to aim for this sweet spot when you're trying to down an aircraft. it sends a missile at mach 6 right into their turbine =D

no problem. it is 100% an experience thing. just keep practicing. you have to somewhat 'map out' what the other aircraft are up to, and where they're going to be when you're done dodging a missile.

and yes, there is a ton of chatter. i believe you can turn the voices off entirely, but some hidden verbal cues won't have any captions for you to read. theres a lot of 'npc' chatter, where like.. ok

you have say, bandog talking. he sometimes warns you, but hes more of a 'main character'. but the one friendly aircraft on your left flank that doesn't have a name, might also yell 'TRIGGER BREAK RIGHT' thats another cue that's generally on point.

if they start giving you cues, and 'warning' starts flashing on your hud, its time to hit your afterburners because they're about to send ordnance your way.

i could have sworn there was a 'tutorial' mode or something to that effect. if that's not the case then fair enough.

[Pumathang]

Originally posted by Hammer of Evil:

i could have sworn there was a 'tutorial' mode or something to that effect. if that's not the case then fair enough.

I didn't see one, but if there's one buried somewhere in the menu, somebody should point it out to me lol. The game does tell you how to do basic things like accelerate and take off in the beginning so I assumed it was built into the missions.

I did finally manage to beat it, but... I kind of cheated. I changed my monitor settings to be super dark (making it very hard to read this forum at the moment) and loaded up the game again. This allows the targeting boxes, speed, altitude, and directional arrow to be visible 90% of the time, so I don't have to rely on the radar for everything. The environment is still visible, just a lot darker... but given the choice, I'd take a black backdrop with visible targeting over the most beautifully rendered environment any day... at least for this mission. I can imagine it well enough thanks to the past 100 or so failed mission attempts.

I'll keep practicing, but I get the feeling I might be better off trying a game with a more forgiving learning curve (and fewer clouds) before I'll be able to beat this one... lol.

[deathspeed]

Originally posted by Pumathang:

I did finally manage to beat it, but... I kind of cheated. I changed my monitor settings to be super dark (making it very hard to read this forum at the moment) and loaded up the game again. This allows the targeting boxes, speed, altitude, and directional arrow to be visible 90% of the time, so I don't have to rely on the radar for everything. The environment is still visible, just a lot darker... but given the choice, I'd take a black backdrop with visible targeting over the most beautifully rendered environment any day... at least for this mission. I can imagine it well enough thanks to the past 100 or so failed mission attempts.

I'll keep practicing, but I get the feeling I might be better off trying a game with a more forgiving learning curve (and fewer clouds) before I'll be able to beat this one... lol.

Congrats on beating the mission! And you stumbled upon a trick that many others have used. I asked on reddit if there was any way to make the target indicators stand out more against the clouds, and the responses I got were "make the monitor darker."

I bought my first computer in 1999 to play FreeSpace and the like, and long before that I played StarMaster on the Atari 2600, Star Raiders and F-15 Strike Eagle on the Atari 1200XL, and F-15 Strike Eagle II and Wing Commander on SNES. I literally grew up playing flight/space combat games. I'm trying to think of some others to help you get some experience in the genre, but to be honest AC7 has one of the more forgiving flight models. You might check out Jane's Advanced Strike Fighters, or H.A.W.X - H.A.W.X 2, for similar mission based, arcade-style jet combat. YOu can also play around in War Thunder and World of Warplanes, or in earlier-era games like Combat Wings - Battle of Britain. There is also a demo for the upcoming Project Wingman, but I have not tried it yet.

Goof luck and glad to see you sticking with this!

[Hammer Of Evil]

Originally posted by Pumathang:

Originally posted by Hammer of Evil:

i could have sworn there was a 'tutorial' mode or something to that effect. if that's not the case then fair enough.

I didn't see one, but if there's one buried somewhere in the menu, somebody should point it out to me lol. The game does tell you how to do basic things like accelerate and take off in the beginning so I assumed it was built into the missions.

I did finally manage to beat it, but... I kind of cheated. I changed my monitor settings to be super dark (making it very hard to read this forum at the moment) and loaded up the game again. This allows the targeting boxes, speed, altitude, and directional arrow to be visible 90% of the time, so I don't have to rely on the radar for everything. The environment is still visible, just a lot darker... but given the choice, I'd take a black backdrop with visible targeting over the most beautifully rendered environment any day... at least for this mission. I can imagine it well enough thanks to the past 100 or so failed mission attempts.

I'll keep practicing, but I get the feeling I might be better off trying a game with a more forgiving learning curve (and fewer clouds) before I'll be able to beat this one... lol.

oh man. no i get you.

the contrast sharp whites over greens is very hard to distinguish.

my guy, i think there are mods on nexus to retexture or soften contrasts, or even change hud colors. check that out when you get a chance.

red/green colorblind guys are going to suffer. i will suffer more as i age, as im losing some light greens and yellow greens as i go here. =p

[a passerby]

make sharp turns any time you see the missile near you. Alternatively,, you can also keep flying around in circles and it's rather unlikely that you'll get hit.

As for aircraft, the F14-D with LAAM and F/A-18F with QAAM are probably your best bets. The LAAM is the best air-to-air weapon in the game in my opinion, since you're almost guaranteed to hit your target if you fire it from a long distance away

[dohh]

THank you for all the helpful tips and general good attitude, Hammer of Evil! HOnestly, I play with M/KB only so no stick or controller. I find the game operates just fine, including missile firings, viewpoints,radar, etc. ONly issue I have with mission 5 is I have NO idea what to DO or where to GO. EVERY target says "next" (especially when there seem to be multiple enemies in the air at various mission 5 points), so if there are specific enemy targets I'm supposed to go after, except for the instances where my direction-arrow points them out to me? Yikes. WHen there are multiple red-enemy arrows on the radar I just go after ones I can get to quicker. The mission briefings are overly complicated so I watch them but then just wing it (no pun intended) and listen to the audio instructions as I play the missions. IN the case of this mission 5, over and over again so much that I have ALL the dialogue memorized.
I'm obviously not good at these games, though ever since the 90s with the Star Wars and other flight games (IL 2 Sturmovic, etc) I've always played them and LOVED them. I'm pretty sure I'm on easy mode right from the beginning, and after many tries I got through missions 1 through 4.
It's just this mission 5. I've lost count at this point. I've seen a video playthrough of mission 5 online. Hard to "memorize" a mission that's over a half hour long for tips.
I wish to heck that the DEVS would have a free flight for each mission for non-experts to fly around in to get familiar with territory. Or at the VERY least, the ability to take up where you left off if you need to stop playing the game, rather than having to start all over again w/ mission. But there isn't ,so my whining isn't going to make that happen. And I can't "cheat" and load one of the few complete game saves online because this game uses cloud saves dependent on each player's game.