Best Protagonist

[Chibi310]

Out of all the Ace Combat Protagonists, who do you guys think is the best one skill wise? Based on what they've done or are capable of doing.

My vote goes to Bishop, the DFM system in that game is more or less how good he is at hounding enemies, and given that he chased and shot down a NUKE (Both an ICBM AND a Cruise missile) before it detonated is another attribute (Last thing you do in the game after taking down markov). There's also his ability to get behind enemies effortlessly (again an aspect of DFM, but I consider it representative of his skill). And there's also when he shot down Illich in a Hurricane. Add on that his specific F-22A is tuned for Aggressive Close Quarters combat, I honestly believe that Bishop could be the best Ace in Ace Combat skill wise.

Trigger to me is probably best represented as the average of the Aces or above average. Although I love how officially he's supposed to be hyper aggressive (More so than any other Ace in Ace Combat history) bordering on berserk.

[King Fossil]

Bishop had a bad plane in ACI. That means he sucks.

[Useless Bunny]

Did you even play the other games?

[Chibi310]

Yes I have, care to add to the discussion?

You could say Nemo due to being an AI and his prowess in Cyber Space (Electrosphere) being something to be in awe of.

Or you could've mentioned Mobius one form the VR missions (Or Shattered Skies if you wanna be a puritan).

Or hell, I know Phoenix is among one of the best easily.

I've played most. I consider Bishop to still be the best one of the bunch. If you think otherwise, instead of questioning me, why not voice your own analysis of any protagonist you've used beforehand? Or break down why I'm wrong. I'm always happy to hear opposing opinions.

I haven't played Zero or 2.

Edit: I also haven't played Inifinite forgot to mention that. Wanted to, never got the chance.

[cyäegha]

purely based on skill alone, nemo completely trumps the others and depending on what you consider to be canonical knowing how much kono hates electrosphere, is the logical conclusion of Z.O.E. and thus comprises mihaly's data, trigger's data and possibly scarface's data

but given that nemo is an AI, and thus not technically bound by the same encumburances as a human pilot, he's disqualified

my tip would then probably go to cipher
given that the belkan air force was deemed, in universe to be 'legendary' and thus beyond compare, and that cipher more-or-less accounted for the loss of at least 142 belkan aces and a number of aces that had defected from other nations (26 according to the in-game assault records), plus a number of accomplishments not dissimilar to those faced by other player characters - the obligatory 'large carrier aircraft' and 'big superweapon' - cipher would at least rank quite highly amongst the aces

however, he and mobius are the only two aces to have had such a demonstratably profound affect on their respective wars that the effects of their actions are still being felt as of 2040

cipher's actions, along with the machinations of the gray men, effectively steered belka onto a path of self-destruction that paved the way for the plots of both AC5 and AC7
mobius' stellar combat record within the ISAF drove erusea to the brink of destruction, which not only put them in the precarious economic situation that they're in as of AC7, but also systemically paved the way for smaller privatised combat outfits like the IUN-PKF and thus UPEO to thrive in the era of megacorporations

comparatively the impacts of the other player characters are much more localized, or in blaze's case, never would have happened in the first place were it not for how the belkan war in particular played out

[628]

Mobius 1.
He never had any direct wingmen or actual squadron to lead unlike any other protagonists. The protagonists in AC games always change war situation but Mobius 1 can be considered as the only one who've done that literally single-handedly. Also he had not that good equipment unlike USAF, since ISAF was losing and evacuating. In the end he got evaluated as one-squad worthy despite of the terrible situation he was in.

Originally posted by Acepedia:

ISAF initiated an investigation into the extent of Mobius 1's abilities, which reached the astonishing conclusion that the combat effectiveness of Mobius 1 was equal to that of an entire ISAF squadron.

Inb4 "He HAD the squad members in destroying Megalith you nugget"
It can be said that was temporal, just gathering the available pilots to destroy the super-weapon, since Mobius 1 fought on Op. Katina (Arcade Mode on 5) solely again.

Originally posted by Acepedia:

The full Mobius Squadron—under Mobius 1's command—was later formed by merging several other ISAF squadrons.

[Useless Bunny]

Originally posted by chibi310:

Yes I have, care to add to the discussion?

You could say Nemo due to being an AI and his prowess in Cyber Space (Electrosphere) being something to be in awe of.

Or you could've mentioned Mobius one form the VR missions (Or Shattered Skies if you wanna be a puritan).

Or hell, I know Phoenix is among one of the best easily.

I've played most. I consider Bishop to still be the best one of the bunch. If you think otherwise, instead of questioning me, why not voice your own analysis of any protagonist you've used beforehand? Or break down why I'm wrong. I'm always happy to hear opposing opinions.

I haven't played Zero or 2.

Edit: I also haven't played Inifinite forgot to mention that. Wanted to, never got the chance.

Because you simply mentioned 2 characters out of the entire franchise in your post, picking the least favorite by the majority at that too. That's why I asked if you played the other games and in fact you haven't played 3 of them.

Nemo is the best pilot by sheer logic, it's the result of the most high tech advancement several decades after any other protagonist. Since it's not human it can't suffer from any ailments a person would suffer while flying, allowing it to push the plane to its absolute limits. (even though such things don't really exist when you play the game because it's not a sim) Nemo can also execute other things impossible to humans such as hacking equipment, switch panes mid-flight, control multiple planes at the same time in combat, going in and out of the stratosphere without any issue tied to the human body, etc. It's clearly the protagonist with most resources and least hindrances.

You say that Bishop is the best for shooting down missiles, something that probably happens in almost every single game. I don't get that.

Originally posted by chibi310:

Add on that his specific F-22A is tuned for Aggressive Close Quarters combat, I honestly believe that Bishop could be the best Ace in Ace Combat skill wise.

I also don't get this. "His plane is 'tuned for aggressive combat', therefore best", what?

Originally posted by chibi310:

Trigger to me is probably best represented as the average of the Aces or above average. Although I love how officially he's supposed to be hyper aggressive (More so than any other Ace in Ace Combat history) bordering on berserk.

What do you even mean by "officially supposed to be hyper aggressive"? Where did you get that from?

[Useless Bunny]

Originally posted by cyäegha:

purely based on skill alone, nemo completely trumps the others and depending on what you consider to be canonical knowing how much kono hates electrosphere, is the logical conclusion of Z.O.E. and thus comprises mihaly's data, trigger's data and possibly scarface's data

Saying Kono hates Electrosphere when they went out of their way to make connections to it in 7 is more than a stretch, isn't it? Also Scarface's data? Huh, why, how, when?

[Mobius1]

Me.

[Chibi310]

I wanted to go with Nemo as my original choice too. But given the nature of Elecrtosphere itself, it's kind of hard for me to tell which direction to go with.

Especially when you consider that some of the Z.O.E. AIs get shot down by other Aces later down the line. For example Hugin and Munin count as Z.O.E. AIs (you can see the Z.O.E. label printed on their Hull in some of the Skins for teh ADF-11F) and they were shot down by Trigger. But then again, being an AI means that they are not bound by normal human weaknesses like Extreme G-Force, so you could theoretically strap these AI's onto a Rocket going Mach33 and they'd still have no problem making dot turns and dog fighting.

Originally posted by BEEP BEEP BEEP MISSILE ALERT:

Originally posted by chibi310:

Trigger to me is probably best represented as the average of the Aces or above average. Although I love how officially he's supposed to be hyper aggressive (More so than any other Ace in Ace Combat history) bordering on berserk.

What do you even mean by "officially supposed to be hyper aggressive"? Where did you get that from?

Ever noticed how enemies in game pop up long before anyone mentions them? Why is this the only Ace Combat game to do that so frequently? If not that Trigger is a bit preemptive personality wise, there's even dialog for you just assaulting new targets as they appear in game before anyone gets a chance to even notice them being around or before they're even labeled as TGT. Trigger is more unfettered than your average Ace who has to wait for targets to be labeled as targets. In short, he's berserk. Which is probably why it was so easy to frame him as Harling's murderer, Trigger is a bit too trigger happy. Even his teammates in Mage, Spare, Strider, and Cyclops comment on how Trigger is a bit too eager.

As for my comment on Bishop's Jet being tuned for Close Combat, Whenever you Furrball, it's pretty much CQC at that point, having a Jet specifically tuned for CQC is the same as exploiting Post-Stall constantly but without losing your speed. And Shooting down an ICBM is commonplace, but how many pilots have sniped a cruse missile seconds after launch before detonation? The amount of precision, control, and reflexes needed to pull something like that off are borderline super human, and don't forget that he shot off the canopy of his wingman's jet to save him, again the level of super human precision needed to pull that off without killing Guts is insane. It's the fact that he can pull off this kind of Drone like skill while still being human is why I rank him so high up there skill wise.

In terms of who owns the best F-22... Honestly I don't know who's 22 is the best one, probably Triggers due to the Queen's Custom part lore wise is that the Scrap Queen's skills at maintaining a Jet is so incredible that it can theoretically push jets beyond their intended spec. And in the final mission, you're supposed to be in an F-22 maintained by the Scrap Queen, so when she mentions that your jet is at its best, she literally means that your jet IS at its best. But, then there's the F-22C later down the line which is a direct upgrade to the F-22. Which would mean that Nemo has the best F-22 spec wise. But, I don't know what Nemo's actual Canonical jet is.

And yes, I am aware as to how polarizing Assault Horizon can be, but I'm not talking about the opinions of the game itself, just the skill of the Ace "Bishop" himself. Taking into account the Mechanics of the game as attributes to his abilities, and the in game events, specific details like I mentioned previously which require more skill and focus than normal, it's why I still think he's a bit too overkill.

[Chibi310]

Originally posted by Mobius1:

Me.

Took me a moment to realize what you meant! GG, I like this comment a lot.

[Useless Bunny]

Originally posted by chibi310:

I wanted to go with Nemo as my original choice too. But given the nature of Elecrtosphere itself, it's kind of hard for me to tell which direction to go with.

Especially when you consider that some of the Z.O.E. AIs get shot down by other Aces later down the line. For example Hugin and Munin count as Z.O.E. AIs (you can see the Z.O.E. label printed on their Hull in some of the Skins for teh ADF-11F) and they were shot down by Trigger. But then again, being an AI means that they are not bound by normal human weaknesses like Extreme G-Force, so you could theoretically strap these AI's onto a Rocket going Mach33 and they'd still have no problem making dot turns and dog fighting.

Well you only shoot down AI that is supposed to be better than you because you are the player and you need to win, let's be honest here.

Originally posted by chibi310:

Ever noticed how enemies in game pop up long before anyone mentions them? Why is this the only Ace Combat game to do that so frequently? If not that Trigger is a bit preemptive personality wise, there's even dialog for you just assaulting new targets as they appear in game before anyone gets a chance to even notice them being around or before they're even labeled as TGT. Trigger is more unfettered than your average Ace who has to wait for targets to be labeled as targets. In short, he's berserk. Which is probably why it was so easy to frame him as Harling's murderer, Trigger is a bit too trigger happy. Even his teammates in Mage, Spare, Strider, and Cyclops comment on how Trigger is a bit too eager.

I think you're reading too much into it. You only get messages of that sort if you actually decide to avoid orders from the AWACS and shoot neutral targets, for example. In the early missions maybe there is a radio line like that but it's most likely due the fact the devs know your avarage player won't roleplay around, the veteran ace combat player already knows how things works. I think it makes more sense to assume that's just a little touch on their part instead of trying to create Trigger as "berserk".

Now with Cypher, on the other hand, you actively decide if you wanna destroy every single thing you see or not, if you wanna let pilots live or not, which even changes the story a tiny bit. From that logic Cypher can be the real "berserk", I guess.

[Chibi310]

Originally posted by BEEP BEEP BEEP MISSILE ALERT:

Originally posted by chibi310:

I wanted to go with Nemo as my original choice too. But given the nature of Elecrtosphere itself, it's kind of hard for me to tell which direction to go with.

Especially when you consider that some of the Z.O.E. AIs get shot down by other Aces later down the line. For example Hugin and Munin count as Z.O.E. AIs (you can see the Z.O.E. label printed on their Hull in some of the Skins for teh ADF-11F) and they were shot down by Trigger. But then again, being an AI means that they are not bound by normal human weaknesses like Extreme G-Force, so you could theoretically strap these AI's onto a Rocket going Mach33 and they'd still have no problem making dot turns and dog fighting.

Well you only shoot down AI that is supposed to be better than you because you are the player and you need to win, let's be honest here.

Originally posted by chibi310:

Ever noticed how enemies in game pop up long before anyone mentions them? Why is this the only Ace Combat game to do that so frequently? If not that Trigger is a bit preemptive personality wise, there's even dialog for you just assaulting new targets as they appear in game before anyone gets a chance to even notice them being around or before they're even labeled as TGT. Trigger is more unfettered than your average Ace who has to wait for targets to be labeled as targets. In short, he's berserk. Which is probably why it was so easy to frame him as Harling's murderer, Trigger is a bit too trigger happy. Even his teammates in Mage, Spare, Strider, and Cyclops comment on how Trigger is a bit too eager.

I think you're reading too much into it. You only get messages of that sort if you actually decide to avoid orders from the AWACS and shoot neutral targets, for example. In the early missions maybe there is a radio line like that but it's most likely due the fact the devs know your avarage player won't roleplay around, the veteran ace combat player already knows how things works. I think it makes more sense to assume that's just a little touch on their part instead of trying to create Trigger as "berserk".

Now with Cypher, on the other hand, you actively decide if you wanna destroy every single thing you see or not, if you wanna let pilots live or not, which even changes the story a tiny bit. From that logic Cypher can be the real "berserk", I guess.

I'll admit that I do read into it a bit much. But that's why I love paying attention to games. It's those subtle details that make me question just what kind of person I'm controlling. Like with Phoenix in Assault Horizon Legacy, how he has that whole 1 button I'm now behind you maneuver, makes me think of Mihaly since it's almost 1:1 of what he does. So I would match Mr.X's skill with Phoenix's on that alone. But, there are more subtle details that make them unique between each other. Like how Phonex doesn't really enjoy torturing their enemy (Ignoring Player Choices of course), and how Mihaly is also like Trigger in that he LOVES to fly and fight.

As for Trigger being eager, it's acknowledge even in between some of the missions near the end of the game, like when Huxian comments on how he's the only one who looks like he wants to get out there and just start fighting, despite the low morale of everyone else due to the loss of communications. Even the requirements for unlocking some of the named aircraft, demand you play like a complete Berserker! Being berserk doesn't not mean you're just someone who wants to kill for the sake of killing, being berserk means you fight without a care for your own safety. For example, Annihilate all enemies within 3 minutes? Officially Trigger shot down all those named Aces, meaning to get a feel for trigger's fighting style, look at the requirements to make the Aces appear. Trigger loves to fly and fight! Just look at the requirements for Stonehedge Defensive, there's 3 of them and one of them is to fly between the ruins of the railguns, you would only do that if you're just having fun. These background details is how you ascertain the personality of silent protagonists.

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by chibi310:

In terms of who owns the best F-22...

Either MB1 or Reaper F-22 is the best, depending on what specials you want.
On that note Reaper is probably the most aggressive pilot given that he has a plane that's designed to be faster than usual just so he can kill steal better.