Ten Million Relief Plan

[Chibi310]

Anyone else feel like that mission is complete bullsh** in terms of difficulty?

Look I love hard missions, I've S ranked every mission on Ace difficulty in the game.

But, when playing that one specific mission, it doesn't feel like my skill matters even slightly. I started to pay attention to my missiles in that mission, and they just randomly give up tracking enemies for no apparent reason, no flares go off, nothing. Missile just stops turning and locks a vector before even getting close to passing an enemy. And that's with the tracking and turning enhancements active. It all seems completely random if I hit them or not with missiles. If I use the TLS or Railgun no problem, they go down instantly because the weapons are dumb fired.

All the other aircraft there feel like they're just there as decorations and nothing more, they don't take down a single UAV or enemy, they don't even damage the UAVs at all, I watched my wingmen hit a UAV with 3 Missiles from 3 different aircraft and the UAV shrugged them off like it was nothing! While only 1 of my missiles takes them down. Worst of all the SACS and SLUAVS just ignore them completely as if they aren't even there. At least in other missions I can see the enemies attack my friendlies or hound them, and I see my friendlies following of trying to take them down. But in this mission, my allies might as well not exist, they don't even form up normally around me, they just wander around ignoring enemies and the specters and maybe sometimes engaging an enemy to make it appear like they're doing something. I played this mission a LOT paying particular attention to all this strange behavior just to be sure that I wasn't insane.

The SLUAVs themselves, they can go from cover to cover of the map in milliseconds while I take a full 3 Minutes to cover the map with something like an F-22, by the time I arrive at the Specter that I need to protect it's already yelling "Mayday" and going down. Despite being swarmed by friendlies before I even arrive.

Every mission before hand (including normal missions) enemies would be evading like crazy and my missiles would hound them until they actually miss and pass the enemy. But, in this one, almost on launch my missiles track for a few milliseconds then "MISSED" pops up and the missiles just ignores the enemy. And all the enemy has to do is just nudge themselves to the side just slightly, no effort and my missiles are like "Okay, enemy is a God at evasion I can't touch this" and miss.

Another example was when I was attacking the Alicorn directly, I launched two missiles at the Railguns, made sure to lock on fully, launched the two missiles lock on did not lose, as I turn to not crash I watched my missiles just stop tracking the stationary RAILGUNS and hit the side of it instead prompting a "missed" message. Or when I was targeting a SAM from the side, I launched the missiles and the vector clearly was going to hit the SAM, but all of a sudden they just swerve to the side as if they're in clouds and land in the water (WITHOUT there being a FOG or the jammer active!).

What is going on, seriously, was this mission intentionally designed with you being utterly crippled from the get go? Because this is my least favorite mission, simply because no mater what I do it just seems like it's luck if my shots land or not. Like my victory isn't a matter of skill but a matter of luck.

I've beaten it, but I don't understand what is going on whenever I play it, it has this level of "Unreal" difficulty that doesn't make any kind of sense to me. When I fight Hugin and Munin I don't see any bullsh** aside from their physics breaking agility, which I accept, same when fighting Sol Squadron and Mister X, I love seeing them just make those point turns to evade me, makes me enjoy trying to attack them even more. But the enemies in here don't even do anything spectacular or entertaining to out maneuver me, they just do simple movements and my missiles agree to miss.

Or worst of all, if I'm doing excellent all of a sudden, my missiles are hitting enemies no problems, I'm thoroughly thrashing them, Alicorn is getting obliterated part by part because of my aggression and my missiles aren't missing. Damage levels at sub-30, then out of the blue I get a Missile warning with no missile in the radar and I blow up in 1 hit! And that's with me launching flares because I don't know where the missiles are coming from, I also forgot, flares do NOTHING in this mission either, it's pure luck if they stop oncoming missiles or if enemy missiles just choose to ignore my flares.

[Useless Bunny]

I don't think our missiles are nerfed in this mission. Single player parts are just garbage overall. Allies always were useless to me, even though some people say they are actually better in those DLC missions, lol.

[Det.Bullock]

Missiles have limited turn rates, if you launch them at the wrong angle or too close (or both) they will miss ground targets, doubly so for targets that aren't exposed from all sides like the components of the Alicorn which also has some AA guns shooting them down IIRC.

[Chibi310]

I don't think I was clear. I have over 160 hours logged, and I play single player WAY more than multiplayer (Actually I stopped playing MP when I finished getting all the Achievements for it), I am very well aware of how weak the Single Player parts are when compared to the multiplayer parts. I've hunted down every Ace in the game, and enjoy trying to absolutely clean up entire maps of enemies before the timer runs out like in Lighthouse. I understand exactly how the missiles work and how to use them. I am by no means a newbie, I even have the Guns only and Perfect No Damage awards for every stage in the game (Except for Ten Million Relief Plan).

The problems that I've listed seem to only be in this single level, every other level in the game, I do not run into any of these problems at all. I am very familiar with the mechanics of the game, and even understand the subtle differences in what each Single player component does from just how much I've swapped out the parts. My ability to annihilate entire hoards of enemies in record time in Ace mode while suffering no damage is why I asked the question, because it's just so alien how this is the only mission where I for some reason have no ability to actually harm enemies without it being pure luck.

[Eclipse]

I think its more related to the pathing that AI uses when dodging missiles than the missiles themselves. or the AI planes have some kind of Missile Jammer upgrade similar to the one that players can use.

ive had the same issue where Ive chased a plane that shouldve been downed 3 times, into me chasing them and using over 10 missiles, some of them bad shots but no more than 2. feeling like my lock on just doesn't work at full potential or like my missiles are nerfed.

no where near as experienced as you, but i always notice that normal difficulty is more like Campaign Hard mode plus a little more during the DLC missions, especially the 1st and 2nd levels of the DLC, mission 3 is REALLY easy imo.

[Chibi310]

Originally posted by Eclipse:

I think its more related to the pathing that AI uses when dodging missiles than the missiles themselves. or the AI planes have some kind of Missile Jammer upgrade similar to the one that players can use.

ive had the same issue where Ive chased a plane that shouldve been downed 3 times, into me chasing them and using over 10 missiles, some of them bad shots but no more than 2. feeling like my lock on just doesn't work at full potential or like my missiles are nerfed.

no where near as experienced as you, but i always notice that normal difficulty is more like Campaign Hard mode plus a little more during the DLC missions, especially the 1st and 2nd levels of the DLC, mission 3 is REALLY easy imo.

That's the weird part to me. If they would've mentioned that the drones and SACS are using ECM, I wouldn't be asking if the missiles are nerfed in that mission. Because in the first mission, I usually end with about a minute left and the only enemies remaining are the ones that spawn eternally for the sake of giving you something to fight while you wait for the Alicorn to move.

In the second mission, it's pretty much the same issue, I clean up the entire harbor and annihilate the airbase along with the fleet that comes in some time mid mission. leaving me to deal with just the SLUAVs that are guiding the Railgun shots, until the timer runs out for Scream and Rage to pop up.

And in both missions, Rage and Scream go down in record time for me (their ECM is easy to deal with once you understand it and their stealth missiles are a joke).

All in Ace mode too!

But in SP Mission 03, all of a sudden my missiles just do not function with no indication as to why. If David didn't know about the ECM on the drones, then why isn't there any radio chatter mentioning that the enemy is using ECM, like when the Alicorn Deploys its Jamming field, Lanza would yell out that his HUD is messing up. So if the drones are using ECM someone would point it out mid mission. But there is no hint of any kind of interference beyond the Jamming Buoys and the Jamming System on the Alicorn.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by chibi310:

Originally posted by Eclipse:

I think its more related to the pathing that AI uses when dodging missiles than the missiles themselves. or the AI planes have some kind of Missile Jammer upgrade similar to the one that players can use.

ive had the same issue where Ive chased a plane that shouldve been downed 3 times, into me chasing them and using over 10 missiles, some of them bad shots but no more than 2. feeling like my lock on just doesn't work at full potential or like my missiles are nerfed.

no where near as experienced as you, but i always notice that normal difficulty is more like Campaign Hard mode plus a little more during the DLC missions, especially the 1st and 2nd levels of the DLC, mission 3 is REALLY easy imo.

That's the weird part to me. If they would've mentioned that the drones and SACS are using ECM, I wouldn't be asking if the missiles are nerfed in that mission. Because in the first mission, I usually end with about a minute left and the only enemies remaining are the ones that spawn eternally for the sake of giving you something to fight while you wait for the Alicorn to move.

In the second mission, it's pretty much the same issue, I clean up the entire harbor and annihilate the airbase along with the fleet that comes in some time mid mission. leaving me to deal with just the SLUAVs that are guiding the Railgun shots, until the timer runs out for Scream and Rage to pop up.

And in both missions, Rage and Scream go down in record time for me (their ECM is easy to deal with once you understand it and their stealth missiles are a joke).

All in Ace mode too!

But in SP Mission 03, all of a sudden my missiles just do not function with no indication as to why. If David didn't know about the ECM on the drones, then why isn't there any radio chatter mentioning that the enemy is using ECM, like when the Alicorn Deploys its Jamming field, Lanza would yell out that his HUD is messing up. So if the drones are using ECM someone would point it out mid mission. But there is no hint of any kind of interference beyond the Jamming Buoys and the Jamming System on the Alicorn.

i just replayed it again today, and I noticed I got highscores for mission 1 and 2, same results as you describe, while ten million relief played more like how you described. maybe i wasnt paying attention before. so weird tho

[Startome]

Sorry to dig it up, but it's a current issue and I'm curious if OP has any updates they remember from a couple years ago. I've been trying once a day the last week to S rank this on Ace, and I haven't observed any issues with the missiles. That said, the drones have some crazy pitch speed and can change directions in a true heartbeat, leaving the missiles woefully incapable or keeping up.

So far I've found the best way to beat them is time it when I know which target they're pursuing, and angle my aircraft well into a "lead" before firing the missile, or going notably faster than them and dropping it from what feels like a few meters away so they have no time to react. It takes good planning, where the missile doesn't really need to maneuver itself much because you dropped it on the drone's tailfin, but it works.

[Chibi310]

Originally posted by Startome:

Sorry to dig it up, but it's a current issue and I'm curious if OP has any updates they remember from a couple years ago. I've been trying once a day the last week to S rank this on Ace, and I haven't observed any issues with the missiles. That said, the drones have some crazy pitch speed and can change directions in a true heartbeat, leaving the missiles woefully incapable or keeping up.

So far I've found the best way to beat them is time it when I know which target they're pursuing, and angle my aircraft well into a "lead" before firing the missile, or going notably faster than them and dropping it from what feels like a few meters away so they have no time to react. It takes good planning, where the missile doesn't really need to maneuver itself much because you dropped it on the drone's tailfin, but it works.

Oh, it's been a while. I can't even remember if I managed to snag that S rank in that mission or not anymore. I haven't played that mission in a good while, so I don't know if the missiles are still derpy enough to ignore the SLUAVs if they just nudge themselves 1 Micron to the side. I'll test it out right now and see what I get.

[Rastrelly]

you need something like LAAMs for this mission, I suppose. drones dodge much worse from a distance. plus buff missile reload and homing. you need to wipe out the entire sky fast to get an S in this one. alternatively, you can try some kind of multi-missile setup to make many shots in order to increase your chances. some free drones are in missile search section, for example, and 4aam can help wiping them.

[Chibi310]

Originally posted by Rastrelly:

you need something like LAAMs for this mission, I suppose. drones dodge much worse from a distance. plus buff missile reload and homing. you need to wipe out the entire sky fast to get an S in this one. alternatively, you can try some kind of multi-missile setup to make many shots in order to increase your chances. some free drones are in missile search section, for example, and 4aam can help wiping them.

The issue isn't about what the Victory parameters are, it's about how the Drones and SACS seem to be immune to or extremely resistant to the Missile homing capabilities. Almost as if your missiles are nerfed for this mission and this mission alone. The aberrant missile behavior is what this discussion is about.

[Chibi310]

Originally posted by Startome:

Sorry to dig it up, but it's a current issue and I'm curious if OP has any updates they remember from a couple years ago. I've been trying once a day the last week to S rank this on Ace, and I haven't observed any issues with the missiles. That said, the drones have some crazy pitch speed and can change directions in a true heartbeat, leaving the missiles woefully incapable or keeping up.

So far I've found the best way to beat them is time it when I know which target they're pursuing, and angle my aircraft well into a "lead" before firing the missile, or going notably faster than them and dropping it from what feels like a few meters away so they have no time to react. It takes good planning, where the missile doesn't really need to maneuver itself much because you dropped it on the drone's tailfin, but it works.

Well, I managed to get an A rank (48k points), but that was due to my own incompetence. Missiles now actually hit their targets. It's been patched. My set up was an F-22 with Agility Mods, and Standard Missile DMG, Homing, Flight Speed, and Time, with QAAMs as my SP Weapon. I'll go for the S rank eventually now that I know my weapons work.

[Scarface Gunhoard]

Use LACM or SFFS, problem solved. LACM's probably better if the VLS missiles are consistently nailing you. For S rank, let a couple waves of drones and Rafales spawn, kill them, then murder the sub. Not that it matters much anyway, there's no prize for S rank in the DLC missions.

[Rastrelly]

Originally posted by Chibi310:

Originally posted by Startome:

Sorry to dig it up, but it's a current issue and I'm curious if OP has any updates they remember from a couple years ago. I've been trying once a day the last week to S rank this on Ace, and I haven't observed any issues with the missiles. That said, the drones have some crazy pitch speed and can change directions in a true heartbeat, leaving the missiles woefully incapable or keeping up.

So far I've found the best way to beat them is time it when I know which target they're pursuing, and angle my aircraft well into a "lead" before firing the missile, or going notably faster than them and dropping it from what feels like a few meters away so they have no time to react. It takes good planning, where the missile doesn't really need to maneuver itself much because you dropped it on the drone's tailfin, but it works.

Well, I managed to get an A rank (48k points), but that was due to my own incompetence. Missiles now actually hit their targets. It's been patched. My set up was an F-22 with Agility Mods, and Standard Missile DMG, Homing, Flight Speed, and Time, with QAAMs as my SP Weapon. I'll go for the S rank eventually now that I know my weapons work.

Ah. No, I don't think missiles were nerfed for this mission. I was playing it around June 2020 for the first time, so more or less at the same timeframe, and I remember no abnormalities in missile behaviour.

[Chibi310]

Originally posted by Scarface Gunhoard:

Use LACM or SFFS, problem solved. LACM's probably better if the VLS missiles are consistently nailing you. For S rank, let a couple waves of drones and Rafales spawn, kill them, then murder the sub. Not that it matters much anyway, there's no prize for S rank in the DLC missions.

I prefer EMLs, their dumb fired nature eliminates any quirk of the enemy and just eviscerates them immediately, as well as TLS with range and power extension mods. Makes dealing with the CIWS and defensive systems of the Alicorn a cake walk. So I guess Rockets can help out too if you're brave enough to bring any specifically for the Alicorn.

[Scarface Gunhoard]

EML fires too slow and can only hit one target at a time, and TLS is kinda garbage against anything that isn't a far off clump of planes. LACM and SFFS both deal lot of damage and have huge splash radius, so they're far and away the most effective at clearing out all the Alicorn's weapon emplacements. With decent-ish aim and reload speed parts, you can wipe all four ballast tanks before it can even dive again. Doing that will likely screw you out of an S rank though, since the requirements in this mission demand both speed and a lot of kills. It's likely the hardest S rank in AC7, and your reward for it is a whole lot of nothing. Go figure.