My God that Tunnel on Mission 20.

[Kameraden]

Being a Vet of the series the tunnel is barely large enough for an Su-27-57 to fit into it.

I've never had problems with tunnel flying on these games in the past, maybe I'm just getting old. lol

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by MidoriFox:

what I find astonishing, is how ds2 controllers had sensitive pressing on all shoulder and face buttons, while the ds4 and xbox controllers only have two triggers on the shoulders (You may notice it especially in Ace combat, the square button zooms the map according to the pressure, and so does the l1/r1 when accelerating and decelerating).

Programming drivers to take advantage of pressure sensitive face buttons was more complex, most games didn't take advantage of it, and it made manufacturing the controllers a lot more expensive per unit.
That's why they stopped doing it. It saw rather limited use, and complicated manufacture of the controllers.

[Kameraden]

Originally posted by MidoriFox:

what I find astonishing, is how ds2 controllers had sensitive pressing on all shoulder and face buttons, while the ds4 and xbox controllers only have two triggers on the shoulders (You may notice it especially in Ace combat, the square button zooms the map according to the pressure, and so does the l1/r1 when accelerating and decelerating).

In an age of multiplatform games. There is little room for 'unique' oddities.

There is a reason the XBox controller most notably the 360 and up controllers are basically Playstation controllers but with different plastic molds, D-Pad/Left Joystick swapping positions and the L2/R2 being replaced with Triggers. It was done so for the sake of easy of cross platforming because Microsoft also wanted the XBox Controller to dominate the PC gaming Market as well, and most PC controllers at the time were modeled after the very Successful Sony Dualshock design at the time. It would also help convince often Playstation Exclusive titles to be multiplatform titles more easily as they wouldn't have to redesign the game's controls to a unique controller.

To be honest, despite being done so for selfish reasons Microsoft's decision to do this was likely one of the better decisions in modern gaming, as the age of multiplatforming you see today has benefited all brands including the increase in PC games which were normally left to Consoles.

As much as I prefer the Playstation Dualshock controller, it's nice that you can very easily get one to work on PC being almost all games that use controllers have nearly identical controls/button arrangements because of Microsoft's decision. It isn't like comparing a N64 to a PS1 controller anymore, controllers are literally identical beast these days.

That being said. Being Microsoft never implemented Pressure Sensitive Buttons, nor has Nintendo, no game developer making say a GTA Game or COD Game, BF Game etc will never use them because they multiplatform their products. By the end of the PS3/360 era you can argue that almost no games used it anymore. Sony pretty much decided to drop it entirely. Even when you use a PS2/PS3 controller on PC you will rarely ever get the chance to use that feature as well sadly, even when emulating.

[Det.Bullock]

The thing is that pressure sensitive buttons are kind of dumb, throttling up and down on Ace Combat 4 tended to hurt my fingers and might as well be digital buttons when it comes to intermediate values between on and off. Analog triggers are just much better.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Det.Bullock:

The thing is that pressure sensitive buttons are kind of dumb, throttling up and down on Ace Combat 4 tended to hurt my fingers and might as well be digital buttons when it comes to intermediate values between on and off. Analog triggers are just much better.

Travel length is important for analog controls. It's why gamepads never supplanted flight sticks for fine control in proper sims. I recently replayed 05 on my PS2, and ran into the problem of some of the missions being rather painful because of the analog face buttons interfering with my ability to map navigate the radar zones.
If pressure sensitive buttons were standard, it wouldn't be a problem, because we'd have adapted the fine pressure control needed for it, but they aren't so it's awkward and uncomfortable.

[deathspeed]

I had trouble finding the tunnel entrance the first time I played, because I did not pay enough attention to the cutscene. Then the tunnel itself was so narrow that I switch to 3rd person from my default cockpit view. For me the most challenging part though was finding my way into the central shaft at the end. The first time I made it that far I got lucky and entered the shaft fine, but I was damaged and brushed a wall with the end in sight. I looked like a firework exiting the shaft and exploding. I wish I had grabbed a screenshot - I was beautiful.

[Kameraden]

Originally posted by warriorx:

op never played AC4 or 5.. that was hard

Ace Combat games played.
Air Combat (PS1)
Ace Combat 3 (PS1)
Ace Combat 4 (PS2) Tunnel was a straight line, multiple times the size of the aircraft so I dunno how it could be harder than either 5 or 7's tunnel runs. Heck I remember the Su47 Ace you could shoot down if you kept going outside after leaving the first tunnel. lol
Ace Combat 5 (PS2)
Ace Combat Zero (PS2)

[Det.Bullock]

Originally posted by Kameraden:

Originally posted by warriorx:

op never played AC4 or 5.. that was hard

Ace Combat games played.
Air Combat (PS1)
Ace Combat 3 (PS1)
Ace Combat 4 (PS2) Tunnel was a straight line, multiple times the size of the aircraft so I dunno how it could be harder than either 5 or 7's tunnel runs. Heck I remember the Su47 Ace you could shoot down if you kept going outside after leaving the first tunnel. lol
Ace Combat 5 (PS2)
Ace Combat Zero (PS2)

That's weird, I played AC4 a month before 7 and I remember having to switch to the A-10 because with all the other planes it was incredibly easy to hit the walls of the tunnel. AC7's tunnel is just a bit too narrow at the entrance but once you are in I find it's pretty smooth sailing compared to that.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Kameraden:

Originally posted by warriorx:

op never played AC4 or 5.. that was hard

Ace Combat games played.
Air Combat (PS1)
Ace Combat 3 (PS1)
Ace Combat 4 (PS2) Tunnel was a straight line, multiple times the size of the aircraft so I dunno how it could be harder than either 5 or 7's tunnel runs. Heck I remember the Su47 Ace you could shoot down if you kept going outside after leaving the first tunnel. lol
Ace Combat 5 (PS2)
Ace Combat Zero (PS2)

Megalith's tunnels are actually pretty hard with some of the later planes in the game, they get a little too twitchy and a single course correction means a mission restart. There is also the issue of the user's TV to consider. I had to play on a modern HDTV fairly recently and discovered that it was literally too dark to see what I was doing, not just in that mission, but in a few others (san salvacion and the mission with the missiles comes to mind. San salvacion I was literally playing by instrument in an AC game). AC5/AC0 had the issue to a somewhat lesser degree and was more playable. When I swapped from the expensive large tv to a cheap 150 dollar off-brand tv (which was still a modern flat-panel HDTV) that was in my room, rather than the living room, it was literally like comparing night and day, and megalith and other 'dark' missions got a lot easier.

[Kameraden]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Originally posted by Kameraden:

Ace Combat games played.
Air Combat (PS1)
Ace Combat 3 (PS1)
Ace Combat 4 (PS2) Tunnel was a straight line, multiple times the size of the aircraft so I dunno how it could be harder than either 5 or 7's tunnel runs. Heck I remember the Su47 Ace you could shoot down if you kept going outside after leaving the first tunnel. lol
Ace Combat 5 (PS2)
Ace Combat Zero (PS2)

Megalith's tunnels are actually pretty hard with some of the later planes in the game, they get a little too twitchy and a single course correction means a mission restart. There is also the issue of the user's TV to consider. I had to play on a modern HDTV fairly recently and discovered that it was literally too dark to see what I was doing, not just in that mission, but in a few others (san salvacion and the mission with the missiles comes to mind. San salvacion I was literally playing by instrument in an AC game). AC5/AC0 had the issue to a somewhat lesser degree and was more playable. When I swapped from the expensive large tv to a cheap 150 dollar off-brand tv (which was still a modern flat-panel HDTV) that was in my room, rather than the living room, it was literally like comparing night and day, and megalith and other 'dark' missions got a lot easier.

Being a PS2 game I would assume it would have some kind of contrast/brightness options? Which were very common on those games because not all CRT TVs were the same, some even having brightness issues. But I've not played Ace Combat 4 in I would say well over a decade. So honestly, all I remember from it was I rarely if ever crashed on Megalith. Even though it had what 4 tunnels? Not sure if one of them was used or not, I even learned how to come from the back on a few of them which was fun. But i never experienced it on a HDTV so.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Kameraden:

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Megalith's tunnels are actually pretty hard with some of the later planes in the game, they get a little too twitchy and a single course correction means a mission restart. There is also the issue of the user's TV to consider. I had to play on a modern HDTV fairly recently and discovered that it was literally too dark to see what I was doing, not just in that mission, but in a few others (san salvacion and the mission with the missiles comes to mind. San salvacion I was literally playing by instrument in an AC game). AC5/AC0 had the issue to a somewhat lesser degree and was more playable. When I swapped from the expensive large tv to a cheap 150 dollar off-brand tv (which was still a modern flat-panel HDTV) that was in my room, rather than the living room, it was literally like comparing night and day, and megalith and other 'dark' missions got a lot easier.

Being a PS2 game I would assume it would have some kind of contrast/brightness options? Which were very common on those games because not all CRT TVs were the same, some even having brightness issues. But I've not played Ace Combat 4 in I would say well over a decade. So honestly, all I remember from it was I rarely if ever crashed on Megalith. Even though it had what 4 tunnels? Not sure if one of them was used or not, I even learned how to come from the back on a few of them which was fun. But i never experienced it on a HDTV so.

I had altered the in-game settings for brightness and such as best as I could. It was partly a brightness issue, partly a contrast one. A lot of the higher end modern big screen HDTVs have rather inconsistent quality when it comes to deciphering signal from composite or component cables, assuming you can even find one with the jacks for it. I've seen the issue a LOT when it comes to using older consoles on modern tvs. Even beyond the 'low resolution on a larger screen' problem, they have noticeable issues with sharpness and color interference.
To put it bluntly, the megalith tunnels get a LOT harder when you can't really see the section where it angles up, because all the colors are washing into each other and it's dark.
Some of the late game planes are also super twitchy, so unless you are used to very gentle micromovements on the stick, you wind up with an overcorrection wobble issue that leads to crashing in an enclosed space.

[Bobotmeister]

did it the second time with a mig-21 and mgps for the medal... actually had an easier time.