Ace Combat 6 was better

[Android994]

While i enjoyed Ace Combat 7, by the end i couldn't shake the feeling that Ace Combat 6 was a better game. Here are some reasons why:

• More coherent story. While AC7's story definitely gets off to a much stronger start with better dialog and voice acting, it gets progressively stupider in its third act from the moment you capture Farbanti all the way up until the end (seriously, what's up with the whole space travel sub-plot that gets introduced 5 minutes before the end?). While AC6's story starts off pretty stupid with incredibly cringy dialog and stiff voice acting, it gets better as the plot progresses and is more coherent overall.
  
  
• More options during gameplay. The ability to tackle objectives in any order gives the game more replay value, and it's really cool how putting off an objective for too long can get you into a tight spot later when you finally get around to tackling it. Being able to give orders to your wingman gives you more tactical options during combat, and i would have liked them to expand upon that system instead of ditching it entirely.
  
  
• Cooler missions. This is probably subjective, but i think that AC6 had cooler missions overall. While AC7's severe weather missions are super awesome (such as flying through a thunderstorm and a sandstorm) the missions without weather aren't nearly as cool. The last mission of AC7 has you dogfighting a couple of drones and flying through a tunnel, while the last mission of AC6 literally has you flying down the barrel of a giant gun that is aimed at your country's capital city.
  
  
• Better music. This is definitely subjective, but other than AC7's amazing main theme that plays during missions 1, 15, and 19, the rest of the music is kinda forgettable. AC6 not only had the extremely memorable Fires of Liberation theme, but several other memorable tracks as well, such as those from the missions "Sipli Field," "Siege on Silvat," and the final mission "Chandelier".
  
  
• Aigaion is basically a bigger, cooler Arsenal Bird. While they're both large carrier aircraft that launch enemy fighters and cruise missiles at you and your allies, Aigaion is bigger, more powerful, and also serves as the home base for the awesomely named Strigon Squadron that serves as the game's main antagonists.
  
  
• More balanced selection of aircraft. While AC7 has more aircraft, from what i can tell they are mostly fighters, with only a handful of multiroles and two attackers. AC6 may only have 15 aircraft, but it has three attackers (one more than AC7), with the rest split fairly evenly between fighters and multiroles. I would much rather have an extra attacker or two than three different variations of the F-15.

EDIT: I would like to make it clear that i don't dislike AC7 at all. Even the worst Ace Combat games still tend to be good games, and i don't even think that AC7 is a bad Ace Combat game, just a bit of a step backwards from AC6. Hell, i even like Assault Horizon and think it's generally a pretty good game, despite it being considered one of the worst games in the series (although i absolutely hate the on-rails turret sections, which completely suck). I really hope that AC7 succeeds, because i really want to see an Ace Combat 8 (hopefully it won't take 12 years this time). Maybe if it does well enough Bamco will grace us with PC ports of 4, 5, 6, and Zero, although that seems pretty unlikely.

[Android994]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

I would have liked for it to have been in a few more missions. Maybe have an aircraft carrier off shore to return to or something.

Another thing that i miss from AC6 are the missions where the runway was right in the middle of the combat area, so if you had to resupply you would need to manually lower your landing gear and dodge enemy fire while making your descent.

Fair, but I don’t think it was really needed in most of the missions that it wasn’t in. Hell, most of the missions it is in can be done without using it if you’ve got the right setup.

Yeah, that was another thing 6 has over 7. Those runways were pretty fun.

Also keep in mind that i don't dislike AC7 at all. Even the worst Ace Combat games still tend to be good games, and i don't even think that AC7 is a bad Ace Combat game, just a bit of a step backwards from AC6. Hell, i even like Assault Horizon and think it's generally a pretty good game, despite it being considered one of the worst games in the series (although i absolutely hate the on-rails turret sections, which completely suck).

I really hope that AC7 succeeds, because i really want to see an Ace Combat 8 (hopefully it won't take 12 years this time). Maybe if it does well enough Bamco will grace us with PC ports of 4, 5, 6, and Zero, although that seems kinda unlikely.

[aG| Wardog]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Fair, but I don’t think it was really needed in most of the missions that it wasn’t in. Hell, most of the missions it is in can be done without using it if you’ve got the right setup.

Yeah, that was another thing 6 has over 7. Those runways were pretty fun.

Also keep in mind that i don't dislike AC7 at all. Even the worst Ace Combat games still tend to be good games, and i don't even think that AC7 is a bad Ace Combat game, but rather a bit of a step backwards from AC6. Hell, i even like Assault Horizon and think it's generally a pretty good game, despite it being considered one of the worst games in the series (although i absolutely hate the on-rails turret sections, which completely suck).

I really hope that AC7 succeeds, because i really want to see an Ace Combat 8 (hopefully it won't take 12 years this time). Hell, if it does well enough maybe Bamco will grace us with PC ports of 4, 5, 6, and Zero, although that seems kinda unlikely.

Yeah, I getcha. I'm the same with 6. I think it's highly underappreciated. I think more or less the same of AH. It's not a good AC game imo, but it's not a bad game in it's own right.

Yeah, PC ports of previous games would be amazing, but at least we can emulate 4, 5 and Zero until then, if it happens.

[Android994]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

Also keep in mind that i don't dislike AC7 at all. Even the worst Ace Combat games still tend to be good games, and i don't even think that AC7 is a bad Ace Combat game, but rather a bit of a step backwards from AC6. Hell, i even like Assault Horizon and think it's generally a pretty good game, despite it being considered one of the worst games in the series (although i absolutely hate the on-rails turret sections, which completely suck).

I really hope that AC7 succeeds, because i really want to see an Ace Combat 8 (hopefully it won't take 12 years this time). Hell, if it does well enough maybe Bamco will grace us with PC ports of 4, 5, 6, and Zero, although that seems kinda unlikely.

Yeah, I getcha. I'm the same with 6. I think it's highly underappreciated. I think more or less the same of AH. It's not a good AC game imo, but it's not a bad game in it's own right.

Yeah, PC ports of previous games would be amazing, but at least we can emulate 4, 5 and Zero until then, if it happens.

The thing with Assault Horizon is that it should never have been called Ace Combat, as it has nothing to do with the rest of the series. If they had simply called it something else, i think that Ace Combat fans would have received it more warmly.

[aG| Wardog]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Yeah, I getcha. I'm the same with 6. I think it's highly underappreciated. I think more or less the same of AH. It's not a good AC game imo, but it's not a bad game in it's own right.

Yeah, PC ports of previous games would be amazing, but at least we can emulate 4, 5 and Zero until then, if it happens.

The thing with Assault Horizon is that it should never have been called Ace Combat, as it has nothing to do with the rest of the series. If they had simply called it something else, i think that Ace Combat fans would have received it more warmly.

Agreed. I think that was the main problem. It didn't meet the general expectations that come with the title, and add DFM on top of that, and it just didn't go too well.

[Android994]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

The thing with Assault Horizon is that it should never have been called Ace Combat, as it has nothing to do with the rest of the series. If they had simply called it something else, i think that Ace Combat fans would have received it more warmly.

Agreed. I think that was the main problem. It didn't meet the general expectations that come with the title, and add DFM on top of that, and it just didn't go too well.

If it had been published by Ubisoft as H.A.W.X: Assault Horizon (as unlikely as that would have been) i feel like it would have gone down much better. It would be remembered as the best game in the H.A.W.X. franchise instead of the worst game in the Ace Combat franchise.

[aG| Wardog]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Agreed. I think that was the main problem. It didn't meet the general expectations that come with the title, and add DFM on top of that, and it just didn't go too well.

If it had been published by Ubisoft as H.A.W.X: Assault Horizon (as unlikely as that would have been) i feel like it would have gone down much better. It would be remembered as the best game in the H.A.W.X. franchise instead of the worst game in the Ace Combat franchise.

Yeah, though that speaks volumes to how meh HAWX was XD

[Android994]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

If it had been published by Ubisoft as H.A.W.X: Assault Horizon (as unlikely as that would have been) i feel like it would have gone down much better. It would be remembered as the best game in the H.A.W.X. franchise instead of the worst game in the Ace Combat franchise.

Yeah, though that speaks volumes to how meh HAWX was XD

I remember being super excited for HAWX at the time because i was a big fan of both Ace Combat 6 and Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, and then being pretty disappointed that it completely failed to capture the magic of either of those games.

[Android994]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

Also keep in mind that i don't dislike AC7 at all. Even the worst Ace Combat games still tend to be good games, and i don't even think that AC7 is a bad Ace Combat game, but rather a bit of a step backwards from AC6. Hell, i even like Assault Horizon and think it's generally a pretty good game, despite it being considered one of the worst games in the series (although i absolutely hate the on-rails turret sections, which completely suck).

I really hope that AC7 succeeds, because i really want to see an Ace Combat 8 (hopefully it won't take 12 years this time). Hell, if it does well enough maybe Bamco will grace us with PC ports of 4, 5, 6, and Zero, although that seems kinda unlikely.

Yeah, I getcha. I'm the same with 6. I think it's highly underappreciated. I think more or less the same of AH. It's not a good AC game imo, but it's not a bad game in it's own right.

Yeah, PC ports of previous games would be amazing, but at least we can emulate 4, 5 and Zero until then, if it happens.

Have you had any luck emulating the PS2 games? As i stated in an earlier comment, I'm currently emulating AC4 because i don't have access to my PS2. I followed the tips given by the guy who made this video and was able to get it running decently.

https://youtu.be/oBtdtMhJEYU

However, unlike that guy's video, the textures on my aircraft loadout screen are totally glitched to the point where i can't see anything (thankfully this issue doesn't carry over to gameplay). I also have an issue where if i don't manually restart the renderer after beginning a mission, the sun appears glitched, and one where the aircraft appears out of focus during night missions when rendering at higher that native resolutions.

[aG| Wardog]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Yeah, I getcha. I'm the same with 6. I think it's highly underappreciated. I think more or less the same of AH. It's not a good AC game imo, but it's not a bad game in it's own right.

Yeah, PC ports of previous games would be amazing, but at least we can emulate 4, 5 and Zero until then, if it happens.

Have you had any luck emulating the PS2 games? As i stated in an earlier comment, I'm currently emulating AC4 because i don't have access to my PS2. I followed the tips given by the guy who made this video and was able to get it running decently.

https://youtu.be/oBtdtMhJEYU

However, unlike that guy's video, the textures on my aircraft loadout screen are totally glitched to the point where i can't see anything (thankfully this issue doesn't carry over to gameplay). I also have an issue where if i don't manually restart the renderer after beginning a mission, the sun appears glitched.

This video explains it best.

https://youtu.be/H-z4rt3TRGA

For AC4, it’s pretty much either black planes or the glitched sun, but AC5 and Zero emulate pretty much perfectly with that guide.

If you want, I could send you through the .isos for 5 and Zero, if you don’t have them already. Finding safe ones can be a real pain now that emuparadise shut down.

[Android994]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

Have you had any luck emulating the PS2 games? As i stated in an earlier comment, I'm currently emulating AC4 because i don't have access to my PS2. I followed the tips given by the guy who made this video and was able to get it running decently.

https://youtu.be/oBtdtMhJEYU

However, unlike that guy's video, the textures on my aircraft loadout screen are totally glitched to the point where i can't see anything (thankfully this issue doesn't carry over to gameplay). I also have an issue where if i don't manually restart the renderer after beginning a mission, the sun appears glitched.

This video explains it best.

https://youtu.be/H-z4rt3TRGA

For AC4, it’s pretty much either black planes or the glitched sun, but AC5 and Zero emulate pretty much perfectly with that guide.

If you want, I could send you through the .isos for 5 and Zero, if you don’t have them already. Finding safe ones can be a real pain now that emuparadise shut down.

I have a Tampermonkey script for Google Chrome that allows me to download from emuparadise. The files are still on their servers, they just disabled the download links.

As for having to choose between black planes and a glitchy sun, check the video i posted. That guy clearly managed to find a workaround somehow.

[aG| Wardog]

Ah right, I'll have a look into that.

[BrySkye]

AC6 always had a bit of a harder time than it really deserved, which I've always suspected was at least in part due to it being an Xbox 360 exclusive, when the series had been so closely associated with the Playstation brand for so long.

The story also got a bit of a hard shake as well.
It might not be the deepest thing, but honestly? I wouldn't say its any more cheesy or 'gringe' inducing than Ace Combat 5.
That game gets a hell of a pass and has been put on a pedestal that, honestly, I don't think it really deserves. Over time, and revisiting its PS4 remaster, a lot of its writing and performances are very ham fisted to the point that I can find my squad mates to be both annoying and hypocritical at times in their messages.

What AC6 had going for it was a larger sense of scale that's still unmatched.

Almost all the AC games will introduce one-off characters and little light hearted moments between your AWACS/Squadron and other allies in the stage. That's a series staple.
I think AC6 deserves credit for expanding on that picking up characters along the way, and them sticking with you.
The likes of Sky Kid, Avalanche, Windhover, AWACS Ghost Eye and Shamrock are with you throughout basically the entire game, and this builds up a sense of comradery that stands out in the series.
I can remember Warlock, Steel Gunners and the Dragon Busters, and that's impressive when you can remember ground units.

I still think Weapons of Mass Destruction has one of the greatest moments in the series, the sheer amount of enemies it throws at you.
Normally this is a setup for a forced "run away" situation, but no. You get cornered and have to "face the music".
Only for you allies to eventually show up whilst the Fires of Liberation theme kicks in.
That, for me, is some peak Ace Combat. The game over-using a cheesy catchphrase isn't going to ruin that.

AC7 has... a number of small issues, I'd say. Coherency is a problem, but it also just has so many ideas that it generally fails to execute very well combined with just a bit too much fanservice or pandering for its own good (looking at you, Mission 4).

Think about it. AC7 has us bounce between wingmates and allies quite often.
Count is the only character that is with you for more than 50% of the game. About 75%.
Yet almost all of his character development is done in the final 25% (following the death of Wiseman and the realisation that Trigger was innocent all along)

Talking about poor execution, let's look at the narrative tool that is a character death -
Take Wiseman. Count sums it up when he says Wiseman died for nothing.
I don't think anyone could try to claim his death, or that of Brownie, Champ, Full Band or Tabloid, can hold up to the likes of Chopper or even PJ. Nor the suspected death of Shamrock.
Our time with these characters is generally too limited to build up a sufficient connection for their deaths to really be significant.
Heck, Wiseman isn't even there with you on missions 13 and the preceding mission 14.
His death is MEANT to be a huge deal. The catalyst for Count changing and growing, even though he's spent most of the game prior to that being both cocky and whiny.
But it doesn't really come across as any more impactful than the 3 other pilots we've flown with that have already died by this point.

Ultimately, AC7 has a bit of a problem with lots of stuff happening, but only mentioned in passing, which makes it feel rushed. Sometimes even nonsensical.
The Kestrel II is mentioned in a briefing, only to next be mentioned in the debriefing that it sank. Whoop-de-do. That is blatantly obvious fan service that, ultimately, adds nothing.
One of the worst offenders IMO is Cossette's supposed death. Her dramatic jump from the space elevator that was part of the very first trailer, the explosion and her damaged helmet flying out of it for a brief few frames.
*Only for her to suddenly start talking to you, literally out of NOWHERE during the final mission.*
So wtf was the point of that cutscene?

That said, 6 did have a narrative problem with Strigon squadron. It did something very unusual in the series.
You can actually shoot down numerous Strigon pilots in the very first mission.
This is kind of a problem, in the sense that they never felt like the massive threat other rival aces have been. They just weren't a big deal. They never felt special.
AC04 ultimately remains the master of the enemy ace squadron.

[Android994]

Ursprungligen skrivet av BrySkye:

AC6 always had a bit of a harder time than it really deserved, which I've always suspected was at least in part due to it being an Xbox 360 exclusive, when the series had been so closely associated with the Playstation brand for so long.

The story also got a bit of a hard shake as well.
It might not be the deepest thing, but honestly? I wouldn't say its any more cheesy or 'gringe' inducing than Ace Combat 5.
That game gets a hell of a pass and has been put on a pedestal that, honestly, I don't think it really deserves. Over time, and revisiting its PS4 remaster, a lot of its writing and performances are very ham fisted to the point that I can find my squad mates to be both annoying and hypocritical at times in their messages.

What AC6 had going for it was a larger sense of scale that's still unmatched.

Almost all the AC games will introduce one-off characters and little light hearted moments between your AWACS/Squadron and other allies in the stage. That's a series staple.
I think AC6 deserves credit for expanding on that picking up characters along the way, and them sticking with you.
The likes of Sky Kid, Avalanche, Windhover, AWACS Ghost Eye and Shamrock are with you throughout basically the entire game, and this builds up a sense of comradery that stands out in the series.
I can remember Warlock, Steel Gunners and the Dragon Busters, and that's impressive when you can remember ground units.

I still think Weapons of Mass Destruction has one of the greatest moments in the series, the sheer amount of enemies it throws at you.
Normally this is a setup for a forced "run away" situation, but no. You get cornered and have to "face the music".
Only for you allies to eventually show up whilst the Fires of Liberation theme kicks in.
That, for me, is some peak Ace Combat. The game over-using a cheesy catchphrase isn't going to ruin that.

AC7 has... a number of small issues, I'd say. Coherency is a problem, but it also just has so many ideas that it generally fails to execute very well combined with just a bit too much fanservice or pandering for its own good (looking at you, Mission 4).

Think about it. AC7 has us bounce between wingmates and allies quite often.
Count is the only character that is with you for more than 50% of the game. About 75%.
Yet almost all of his character development is done in the final 25% (following the death of Wiseman and the realisation that Trigger was innocent all along)

Talking about poor execution, let's look at the narrative tool that is a character death -
Take Wiseman. Count sums it up when he says Wiseman died for nothing.
I don't think anyone could try to claim his death, or that of Brownie, Champ, Full Band or Tabloid, can hold up to the likes of Chopper or even PJ. Nor the suspected death of Shamrock.
Our time with these characters is generally too limited to build up a sufficient connection for their deaths to really be significant.
Heck, Wiseman isn't even there with you on missions 13 and the preceding mission 14.
His death is MEANT to be a huge deal. The catalyst for Count changing and growing, even though he's spent most of the game prior to that being both cocky and whiny.
But it doesn't really come across as any more impactful than the 3 other pilots we've flown with that have already died by this point.

Ultimately, AC7 has a bit of a problem with lots of stuff happening, but only mentioned in passing, which makes it feel rushed. Sometimes even nonsensical.
The Kestrel II is mentioned in a briefing, only to next be mentioned in the debriefing that it sank. Whoop-de-do. That is blatantly obvious fan service that, ultimately, adds nothing.
One of the worst offenders IMO is Cossette's supposed death. Her dramatic jump from the space elevator that was part of the very first trailer, the explosion and her damaged helmet flying out of it for a brief few frames.
*Only for her to suddenly start talking to you, literally out of NOWHERE during the final mission.*
So wtf was the point of that cutscene?

That said, 6 did have a narrative problem with Strigon squadron. It did something very unusual in the series.
You can actually shoot down numerous Strigon pilots in the very first mission.
This is kind of a problem, in the sense that they never felt like the massive threat other rival aces have been. They just weren't a big deal. They never felt special.
AC04 ultimately remains the master of the enemy ace squadron.

I don't really have a problem with being able to shoot down enemy aces as long as doing so is sufficiently difficult. I think it's weird how in some of AC4's missions the Yellows will basically always evade your missiles no matter how well you line up your shot (although it's possible that they can be shot down and i am just doing it wrong).

[Android994]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

I only ever played a bit of AC4 many years ago, and unfortunately i don't currently have access to my PS2 so i can't finish playing the campaign from where i left off. However, i did recently install an emulator on my PC and started playing from the beginning. It's okay, but it seems pretty light on story in comparison to later games.

4 has one of the best stories in the franchise imo, same with the other PS2 titles, 5 and Zero. Going back to them now is a little hard though, since the gameplay feels pretty dated after playing through 6 and 7.

Okay, so I'm not a huge fan of AC4's story, and here's why. As i stated before, i am currently playing through AC4 using emulation as i don't have access to my PS2 at the moment. I recently started the mission "Tango Line," and it suddenly occured to me that i have definitely played this mission on my PS2 before. This means that i played through over half of AC4's campaign on my PS2 several years ago, and was so unmoved by it that i completely forgot about ever having done so.

[Android994]

Ursprungligen skrivet av REDi1R REC Wardog:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Android994:

So why did they occupy countries that they weren't actively at war with?

I don't think they were occupying them. Osea simply couldn't get forces through the areas covered by the defensive range of the Arsenal Birds. I'm not amazing at explaining all this, and I haven't dug really deep, but I never had anything that seemed overly confusing that I can think of.

I just double checked. Erusea totally did invade the entire continent. This is explained in the briefing for mission 2.