Winning strategies for every class

[Encomium]

Hey,

I've been really enjoying the game and after 1.0.4 hit, I went back and finished the game again with every class. Here are some thoughts about it. Card names might not be 100% accurate as I don't have the game running, but planning on fixing that.

Firstly, I have to say that, in spite of the Enough! card and the new anti-cycle enemy passives, I still feel that a heavy cycle strategy is the way to go with every class, and that has some very big implications for the tier list in the game's current state. The reason for this is that the enemy tends to have more natural draw, higher card quality and higher AP; you, on the other hand, often have a number of low quality or situational cards holding you back. While you are usually able to coast through the first two dungeons with the help of the passives from your equipment, the third dungeon will have plenty of enemies with superior natural stats as well as passives of their own; this is particularly true of the Harbinger, of course.

In theory, there are a couple of strategies to overcome these disadvantages. I will focus on the two that seem most relevant to me: sustain and cycle. A sustain strategy aims to grind the opponent out by playing powerful defensive cards such as dodge, interrupt, armour or hp gain while applying some form of consistent damage to the opponent, like bleed, ignite, etc. As I'll elaborate on below, certain classes are designed for this strategy. In my opinion, however, it is extremely risky. There are two reasons for this: firstly, so many of the Harbinger loadouts are extremely anti-sustain, and secondly, the Harbinger immunity can potentially shut down your DoT win condition, making you rely on wet noodling his face while those ignite/poison cards clog up your hand. In terms of his passives, the penitence one will pretty much destroy any sustain strategy; so will, I'm sure, the mill passive. Generally speaking, you want to end the Harbinger fight as quickly as possible, and that's not what a sustain strategy seeks to do.

The alternative is cycle. A cycle strategy aims to play low-cost cards that draw you deeper into your deck toward whatever win condition it has. That win condition might be a big bomb (Mage), incremental damage leading up to a finisher (Rogue), or building a gigantic DoT that puts your opponent on a very short clock (Berserker/Cleric). A cycle strategy can either aim for a one-turn kill, or rely on a mechanic that gives you a huge defense boost on your following turn (Knight and Ranger) or simply another turn (Mage). I've found that even the high-sustain classes do better on the Harbinger with a cycle/sustain mixture rather than all-out sustain, and this is particularly the case for the Cleric and Knight.

The most important thing to keep in mind with a cycle deck is cutting out any unnecessary card. If you have too many cards that don't draw, you risk breaking the chain mid-way through your turn with a hand full of attack cards. At the same time though, you need those damage cards eventually to win. That means you sometimes have to give up some high damage cards to ensure the deck still achieves its overall goal consistently enough, and in most cases completely cut defensive and reactive cards.

Now, Enough! was introduced to counter this strategy, and it does quite well. That doesn't change the fact that it's still the most viable strategy, and even if your cycle turn gets countered, you can just resume the turn after. I've only come across one enemy that had 3 Enough! cards in a row - a Cyclops, I think - and he was not able to do much damage to me before I eventually got the miracle turn off. It is very important to keep some cycle cards back if you expect an Enough!, so you're not left with a massive amount of AP and low cycle after casting 6 cards.

Class strategies (organized by tier). This is how I approach the classes -- there are surely other ways to win but this is how my winning runs usually end up!

Tier 1: Mage & Rogue.

Rogue
Generally regarded as the best class in the game. I think the main reason is because of how synergistic and powerful its basic cards are at executing the heavy cycle strategy. You don't need to high-roll the Altar as card upgrades are not necessary, particularly on your starting deck. The AP discount passive furthermore makes your cycle engine very, very consistent. Dagger refunds AP; card sieve is free, Focus is actually viable in rogue -- in other words, you don't need to rely on finding specific cards from treasures and merchants to assemble a deck that is capable of powering through every card in a single turn. At that point, with 20+ cards played, you obliterate your opponent with executes and backstabs. It is worth noting that a rogue deck without Execute is considerably weaker than a deck with one or more copies, but it really shouldn't be too hard to find that one card over the course of the three dungeons. In short, the rogue has access to an easy, consistent strategy.

Win condition: cycling towards a huge finisher.
Draw engine: chain attack, dagger, card sieve, dexterity, chakram.
Kill cards: Execute & backstab.
Key equipment: +1 AP on casting support cards.


Mage
I think the Mage has the potential to end up with the strongest deck out of any class. It is conceivable to lose against the Harbinger as a rogue if he has an Enough! leading into Bonebreaker. In my opinion, a good mage deck is unbeatable. The mage has the best counter to Enough! -- Time Stasis -- and is not as vulnerable to Bonebreaker, which in my opinion is possibly the strongest card in the game (particularly for the enemy). Generally speaking the mage does not cycle through the whole deck on turn 1, but instead cycles just enough to hit Time Stasis to secure an extra turn, while building up mana reserves. You generally want to cast a Time Stasis before your 6th card, as that will cancel Enough! and give you a fresh turn with the rest of your cards.

The issue with the mage strategy is that it is heavily reliant on rare cards and a key piece of equipment. In an ideal world, you'll be using an equipment that draws you a card when you use Mana Charge, spending your AP on Mana Surge, cycling through your deck with Scrying and getting an extra turn with Time Stasis, often while casting Spell Echo first. To truly break the game, cast mana reversal before all that to end up with a three-figure mana pool. You then repeat that turn after turn, until you assemble enough damage to kill your opponent. This is pretty easy, as you can get away with including just one burn card in the deck - Spell Blast, converting all of your mana into twice as much pure damage.

That kind of deck takes a while to assemble and you might not ever get it, which is why it is not as consistent at winning as the rogue is.

Strategy: Cycle through to Time Stasis, build mana reserves, repeat. Assemble enough burn to kill your opponent before they have a turn.
Draw engine: Mana Charge (with the right gear), Mana Surge, Scrying, Time Stasis, Clairvoyance.
Kill Cards: Ideally Spell Blast; alternatively high-mana cost damage/DoT spells backed up with spell echo.
Key equipment: +1 card while casting Mana Charge.


Tier 2: Berserker, Cleric & Knight

Berserker is pretty good at pulling off a cycle strategy, but you need a defensive plan as well as you are unlikely to kill the Harbinger before he gets to play out some turns. Pick up as many bleeds as you can, some card sieves and throw away those Attack cards, and you can generally speaking stack up enough bleed on the Harbinger to end things in a few turns. Backing that up with defensive companion skills, invuln potions and hp gain in the form of Shrug it off/lifedrain should get you over the finish line. It is fairly easy to get this strategy consistently working, as the Bleed cards act as both your cycle and your kill condition.

Strategy: cycle into huge bleed stacks.
Draw engine: the bleed cards, card sieve, chakram.
Kill cards: Bleeds, Thousand Cuts, supplemented by high damage attacks.
Key equipment: +AP on hit, hp/armour on playing cards.


Cleric
The Cleric has a monstrously effective strategy that involves a simple two card combo: Repent and the 5 mana card that Ignites and adds a Penitence card to you opponent's deck. Repent gives you mana, so the rest of your deck just needs to help you draw toward those cards, as well as keeping you alive while the DoTs do the work. As I suggested above, I highly recommend focusing more on the cycle cards rather than the defensive cards-- Heal does nothing until you actually take damage, and it is much better to be proactive rather than reactive in this game. Filling your opponent's deck with useless cards like Penitence is a better defensive strategy than filling your deck with life regain.

Strategy: cycle to DoT cards while diluting your opponent's cards with useless cards.
Draw engine: Card Sieve, Clairvoyance, Mana Charge, Dark Ritual
Kill cards: Repent and the 5 mana Ignite card.
Key equipment: +1 draw with Mana Charge, +armour on playing cards.


Knight
The Knight has a slightly different approach. He/she is not able to cycle as consistently as the tier 1 classes, and lacks access to the powerfully reliable DoTs of the berserker and cleric. I've found that the most effective anti-Harbinger strategy is heavily cycling into disables and high-quality damage cards. On its own Pummel is simply a bad card, because most of the time the enemy is drawing more cards than you and it is not in your interest to go 1-for-1 cardwise. That changes when you include lots of cycle cards and lots of Pummels, because you can completely disable your opponent while getting in chip damage through other means. Block and Bulwark help you mitigate the little damage left in your opponent's hands. A slow and steady strategy compared to the ones listed above.

Strategy: cycle to Pummels and high quality damage cards like Body Slam.
Draw engine: Defend, Card Sieve, Power Up, Chakram.
Kill cards: high quality damage cards.
Key equipment: +damage while playing attack cards, +AP while getting hit, +armour while playing cards, retaliation.


Tier 3: Ranger

Ranger
I honestly believe the Ranger is far and away the worst class. The problem here is that its defensive mechanism - dodge - does not work against spells, and for that reason you cannot rely on it throughout the game. Most notably, dragons, with their Fly card, high health pools and high damage spells give the ranger a tough time. The ranger does not have the defensive capabilities of the Knight or Cleric, and while it is pretty good at cycling, there is a significant difference between the Ranger and the Rogue, Mage and Berserker. The difference is that those classes cycle while improving their offensive capabilities, while the ranger cycles while improving its defensive capabilites.

This is a huge difference. The Rogue is hitting for huge amounts at the end of its cycle; the Mage has enough mana to eventually 1 shot the Harbinger; the Berserker has condemned its opponent to a bloody death over a very short amount of time. All the side benefits of the Ranger cycle is high dodge. Not only is dodge an unreliable defensive mechanic, but the ranger also has to find a way to kill the opponent. Other defensive cards like Hidden feel lacklustre. Yes, it does have a strong card in Arrow storm and can buld a poison/ignite strategy like any other class, but this issue of having unreliable defenses and a cycling mechanic with no offensive dimension makes it, in my opinion, the weakest class.

Strategy: dodge and hope, while drawing cards that hit very hard.
Draw engine: Dodge, Card Sieve, Chakram.
Kill cards: Arrow storm, other high-quality attack cards.
Key equipment: +draw when you cancel an opponent's card.

[Bwixie]

Good insight, and I agree with the tiers of the classes. It makes sense Cycling through your deck is the strongest playstyle, but there's not much that can be done to nerf it without affecting everything. What do you think could be done to improve balance?

[nerdook]

This is great, you can post this under Guides too!

[Encomium]

Thanks - I wasn't sure how complete this would be when I started, but after I fix some of the card names I'll see about posting this as a guide!

Ok, my thoughts on toning down the cycle mechanic. Firstly I think the biggest culprit is Card Sieve. Other godly draw cards like God Speed seem to be rare, but I always find at least one Card Sieve, and they start showing up in the first dungeon. Shrug it Off is a card that is pretty solid in every deck, but when played with Card Sieve it becomes completely broken. At rank 3 that's 5 cards and 10% hp for 1 AP. 1 AP! Chakram is another card that is clearly undercosted.

It's clear that the 1 AP per support card equipment will almost guarantee a winning run on most classes. I'm not sure if this is worth addressing as it seems to be rare (I check for it in every merchant), and I like the idea of certain super-rare equipment having such a powerful effect, since you lose the stuff you use on winning runs. I'm not exactly sure how rare it is but it should be among the rarest. Another effect that has a similar effect is the +draw when playing Mana Charge, which again is the single most important element to a mage winning strategy.

Maybe there aren't enough penalties to drawing every card in your deck. The fact that you reshuffle the graveyard into your deck if you have a draw effect at 0 cards means that the game doesn't hve the natural cap on the effectiveness of cycle strategies like, for instance, MtG or Hearthstone has, where 'decking' yourself basically kills you. I'm not sure if, and how, the Monster Slayers card draw mechanic could be changed. I think it's kinda silly that you can discard with Card Sieve and eventually draw those cards from your discard pile the same run, and I equally think it's weird that you can start a turn with almost a full graveyard and still draw through all of it. Because the deck is so small, however, it's not viable to introduce very severe penalties on reshuffling your graveyard back into your hand.

So, to start with, nerfing some of the cheap, neutral cycle cards would balance the game. Another idea would be to introduce some sort of banish effect for the powerful cycle cards, such as the sieve. The mage potential omnipotence can be addressed by changing Spell Echo, as that card allows you to echo the Time stops and in that way get infinite turns (Spell Echo the Time Stasis, cast both, first for an extra turn, the next for 3 cards, draw enough Mana Charges to very likely find both again).

It's a complicated dynamic, though, but the changes over the last couple of patches show that Nerdook is addressing cycle strategies, and so far the changes have been very appropriate in my opinion.

[Encomium]

Interestingly Card Sieve and Shrug has already been nerfed! I'm on a Mac and I just now got the update.

[Lucifer Nevermind]

Yup. as the game is right now, small decks with draw cards and at least one finisher is great on every class, except for a few one, draw cards should be heavy cost induced, there are those two card that, is discarted, gives you more effect and 2 free draw (the shrug it off and the one that one os companios gives you.

Card Sive level 2 could be "draw 2 discard 2" ans level 3 "draw 3 discard 2", that way you wont use they just for increase hand, but to cicle.


Also, to OP, IMHO it is not that Ranger are weak, one thing that makes rogue like games more "uniques" is the lucky factor, Ranger is one classe that, with critical and dodge mechanics, this class is more luck based than others (even more that you NEED a bow for his passive). Considering only the cards that makes ranger class, this one is strong as turn passes, i had one run where my crit got almost at 4x multiplier with 5X% of chance, but even so its about lucky chances, buuut indeed they dont have something to stop heavy magic/suport decks, maybe hidden could be only for suport and magic, or have more than one use per card. (BTW i find my Rangers run more smooth than the Berseker)


And i think that are many card that may use some chances, event Mana charge... IT SHOULD COST AP at higer level as its really easy to make one deck where you get a 4th mana charge and use everything you can to delete all attack cards, and upgrade mana charges on Captain, then you mage almost never need more than 6AP on some rounds (as you can use concentrate + some low AP cost card to draw, or even Time Stop). Also Spell Echos is too damn strong ! Not only you can get much more from Time stop, it double your finishers... for no cost, again, t least it should cost like, 3 or 4 AP !


And about cleric, he can uso some Wizard way to victory, not only the "se they repent for their sin as they burn in hell", and it based on repent for mana + bless + Randon effect card (that i fogot the name ), my last 3 or 4 games with cleric i came across at leas 2 of those 12 mana spell, even if they are random, they made game a breeze, 45 BLOCK is a huge amount, heal part is really nice, 30 damage is great and draw... makes a nice to cicle, on worst case scenario, you get life when you are full and 2 draws, that menas 12 mana for 2 card... yeah... it sucks, but every other combination may not be the best for the situation, but 12 mana is a great cost for they. (also, for me at least, the 5 mana card that gives penitence to enemie is kinda rare.... realy rare)

[razorblade02]

In my opinion the ranger can be a tier one class too. I made a build based on critical chance and canceling, I could kill the monster turn one. + 50% crit with x3 damages

[Encomium]

Hey,


I'm probably overlooking some potential of the ranger, but for me the issue is not whether it is luck-based, it is that its cycle mechanism DOES NOT contribute to an offensive strategy, whereas the cycle of the high-tier classes does. Now that some cycle cards have been nerfed, it is conceivable that the ranger is better in comparison.


I really don't see how it's tier 1 right now though. When you say 'the monster', do you mean the Harbinger? Because both tier 1 classes can kill anything in the game before it even takes a turn. Only Enough stops the rogue; the mage can go infinite with very little card investment.


Take this deck for instance. A small deck, lots of Mana Charges, with only two cards necessary for an infinity loop: Magic Echo and Time Stasis. I have an almost guaranteed chance of hitting those cards every turn, meaning I can kill anything even if I'm only doing 1 damage a turn, as I have infinite turns. My equips have +1 card on Mana Charge, plus 6 hp and 6 block. That means I negate up to 12 damage on every Mana charge cast, or 72 damage a turn. The deck would only get better if I deleted Meteor, or Got other rare cards like Mana Surge and more Time Lapses, but this simple and 'cheap' deck is enough to go infinite. I don't really see the ranger having that potential, while counteracting its weaknesses, but maybe I'm wrong.


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=894626007

[Jin]

Originally posted by Encomium:

Hey,


I'm probably overlooking some potential of the ranger, but for me the issue is not whether it is luck-based, it is that its cycle mechanism DOES NOT contribute to an offensive strategy, whereas the cycle of the high-tier classes does. Now that some cycle cards have been nerfed, it is conceivable that the ranger is better in comparison.


I really don't see how it's tier 1 right now though. When you say 'the monster', do you mean the Harbinger? Because both tier 1 classes can kill anything in the game before it even takes a turn. Only Enough stops the rogue; the mage can go infinite with very little card investment.


Take this deck for instance. A small deck, lots of Mana Charges, with only two cards necessary for an infinity loop: Magic Echo and Time Stasis. I have an almost guaranteed chance of hitting those cards every turn, meaning I can kill anything even if I'm only doing 1 damage a turn, as I have infinite turns. My equips have +1 card on Mana Charge, plus 6 hp and i think 4 block. That means I negate 10 damage on every Mana charge cast, or 60 damage a turn. The deck would only get better if I deleted Meteor, or Got other rare cards like Mana Surge and more Time Lapses, but this simple and 'cheap' deck is enough to go infinite. I don't really see the ranger having that potential, while counteracting its weaknesses, but maybe I'm wrong.


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=894626007

Some powerful card just need to be banished after being played to get rid of endless cycle/turns. Stasis when not duplicated is gone from your deck for the fight after you used it for the extra turn. And many cards should be the same. Instead of endless OTK possibilities those cards should be only usable ONCE like the consumables. Banish should mean = can't be used again in the entire dungeon, but can be used again in the next dungeon. That's why those cards are broken. You can use them every fight and even multiple times per fight.

You probably have to balance the game again after that, but a good solution would be banish = gone for the entire dungeon after being played once. If you get a broken card twice in your deck, grats free run. But it's obvious some cards can't be balanced with cost as you generally end up infinite ressources anyway with any class. So to balance them is to remove them after being played for a long time, kind of like big boss killers. Buff the bad cards and nerf the broken cards is my suggestion.

[Bwixie]

funny thing about that infinimage deck, it doesn't work for the shadow because it has no equipment or class bonuses, it just has the same deck.

tbh im kinda dissappointed i beat the shadow in my first battle without even a scratch, though to be honest i was using a knight deck with lots of roar, bonebreaker, and pummel to reduce their hand to 0 for free turns.

[Bwixie]

Originally posted by Jin:

Some powerful card just need to be banished after being played to get rid of endless cycle/turns. Stasis when not duplicated is gone from your deck for the fight after you used it for the extra turn. And many cards should be the same. Instead of endless OTK possibilities those cards should be only usable ONCE like the consumables. Banish should mean = can't be used again in the entire dungeon, but can be used again in the next dungeon. That's why those cards are broken. You can use them every fight and even multiple times per fight.

Woah calm down there buddy, there's too many banishable cards to change them like that, many would need a huge buff to be worth it.

[Encomium]

Quick update -- Infinity Mage going infinite:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=894638756


The 198 armour gain is from an equipment that gives 6 armour per Mana Charge. That's 33 Mana Charges cast in a deck with 6 of them. It goes without saying that this mage went on to crush the legendary boss before he even got to play a single card.

[Jin]

Originally posted by BaronBrixius:

Originally posted by Jin:

Some powerful card just need to be banished after being played to get rid of endless cycle/turns. Stasis when not duplicated is gone from your deck for the fight after you used it for the extra turn. And many cards should be the same. Instead of endless OTK possibilities those cards should be only usable ONCE like the consumables. Banish should mean = can't be used again in the entire dungeon, but can be used again in the next dungeon. That's why those cards are broken. You can use them every fight and even multiple times per fight.

Woah calm down there buddy, there's too many banishable cards to change them like that, many would need a huge buff to be worth it.

Well the game is kinda easy as it stands now, Dungeon 1 and 2 are just to make a foundation of your deck and dungeon 3 is avoiding hard encounters until you grab the broken card for your class. Dunno if you enjoy that but to me that's pretty bland..

There are also a few other broken things with the game. For example you can simply kill the Harbinger on Normal, leave 1 fight for after the bossfight, kill yourself there and keep the good items and then just start a all lvl 15 items run on legendary. Pretty cheese-tactics but normal and legendary mode should be seperated. No interaction from normal and using items from those runs...

[nerdook]

I think I'll rebalance the Mana Charges eventually, but as it stands will leave the Wizard alone for now.

[Encomium]

Totally, Nerdook :) Good job on changes so far, I'm really not sure what the implications are with the recent AP increases, but it definitely promises to make the game more challening. Magic Echo could also be banished after using, that way it cuts on the exploitability of it by a lot.

[nerdook]

@Jin: If you really want a challenge, I can make it so Legendary runs don't allow you to equip items unless your level matches the item's level. But that would be really tough, since you won't ever have any items above level 11!