it should add a way for deleting 5th skill(community)

[stmac571]

it make sense for able to delete 5th in the responding spot site, for an example, u can learn gardening on food market or alike spot, the game should also provide the same way for ppl to delete gardening with owned food market or alike spot. it can speed up and easily for ppl to learn different 5th community skill for current needed at the time. and it make sense for being able to do this. the cost can be little higher than learning of the skill in that site, but don't cost too high or it lost the meaning of adding such function

[WarBucks]

you can always get rid of a character to take in a new one.

They decided long ago that those skills arent going to be removable. its a matter of having to make choices that stick

[Heartbre4ker]

you can delete it by using community editor

[Scorp721]

Originally posted by stmac571:

but don't cost too high or it lost the meaning of adding such function

It costs like 1500 Influence for the Retraining Books (for Cardio, Wits, etc) and the trader that sells them is pretty rare. Why should we be so easily, and cheaply, able to change 5th skills on a whim? Especially considering 5th skills affect the entire Community, where things like Wits and Cardio really only affect a single person.

Plus a big part of the gameplay loop is calling in Enclaves, doing quests to raise your rep with them, and fielding potential recruits. Or fielding recruits from the many random missions that pop up. If you could fully customize anyone, anywhere, at any time, you cut out a big part of that loop. Deciding to recruit someone or let them go is supposed to be a meaningful choice, with what you're asking it wouldn't be. You'd just grab the first 5 or so people you run across without a thought and change everything around.

Though as others have said, you can do that with the Community Editor, and that's fine with a mod, but it shouldn't be in the vanilla game.

[Soy Mutant]

Originally posted by WarBucks:

you can always get rid of a character to take in a new one.

They decided long ago that those skills arent going to be removable. its a matter of having to make choices that stick

This is such a st*$%d point - it does nothing but forces you out of immersion and into treating characters like code lines with numbers instead of personalities.

"Just get rid of him, don't care" - that's just sad.

[Tax evasion]

Originally posted by TheIconicThinkingGamer:

Originally posted by WarBucks:

you can always get rid of a character to take in a new one.

They decided long ago that those skills arent going to be removable. its a matter of having to make choices that stick

This is such a st*$%d point - it does nothing but forces you out of immersion and into treating characters like code lines with numbers instead of personalities.

"Just get rid of him, don't care" - that's just sad.

You would get rid of survivors for having useless/negative traits, would you? Why not do the same with survivors that have useless 5th skills?

[stmac571]

Originally posted by Heartbre4ker:

you can delete it by using community editor

i dont want to use mod for that purpose

[stmac571]

Originally posted by Scorp721:

Originally posted by stmac571:

but don't cost too high or it lost the meaning of adding such function

It costs like 1500 Influence for the Retraining Books (for Cardio, Wits, etc) and the trader that sells them is pretty rare. .........

it is so random to see them to sell this item . that why i am asking for this.

[bunny de fluff]

Because rolling for a semi good looking character is so damn hard, or else why would anyone has second thought kicking any character out? Why such obvious things needed to be said, sigh.

[Tax evasion]

Originally posted by bunny de fluff:

Because rolling for a semi good looking character is so damn hard, or else why would anyone has second thought kicking any character out? Why such obvious things needed to be said, sigh.

Are you being serious? There are plenty of head covers you can use to hide the survivors face. I have 2 survivors who look absolutely hideous but have excellent traits, 1 of them has unbreakable (+45 health and immune to injury), takes power naps (+20 stamina and -1 bed used) and has hygiene as her 5th skill from hygiene book. The other one has blood plague survivor (immune to blood plague), indefatigable (+30 stamina and -40 fatigue severity) and has lichenology as her 5th skill from lichenology book. And i make these two to wear wielding masks to hide their faces while i enjoy their traits.

[senillosa]

Community editor is not a cheat code ?

[Soy Mutant]

Originally posted by Tax evasion:

You would get rid of survivors for having useless/negative traits, would you? Why not do the same with survivors that have useless 5th skills?

I care about traits even less - ultimately, even having 30-50 more or less health or stamina means nothing in a long run.

Personally, I have made a mod that removes all skill blocking traits (ones that prevent skills from leveling) and useless quirk skills from traits and enjoying the game much better than before, when even creating a fresh community meant rolling through hairdressers and musicians.

Now the only thing that makes me avoid recruiting a stranger is when his 5th skill is already present at my community - and that IS a problem that should have been solved long ago.

I understand that in theory the idea was to make "hard choices", but in reality it simply doesn't fit the gameplay - when you have 7-8 survivors in your community recruiting becomes about finding a survivor that doesn't have a skill you already have - and that process is very tedious.

The game should have an option to unlearn the 5th skill for a high cost to IMPROVE immersion - it will make managing community better, because you could actually attach to characters and not treat them as abstractions first.

Although, I have to admit that right now you can safely remove the survivor by simply sending them to legacy pool, while in the old times there was only one choice - to whack them! Which were much less humane than what we got now.

[tenser-spencer]

The game is all about consequences and choices. If you play it as intended (no cheat mods), the various mix of skills and traits of the survivors, makes you adjust your strategies depending on the mix.. It all about trade-offs and finding the balance of morale and function. There is no bad 5th skill. Everyone is useful. The only people to send packing are the negative trait whiners, complainer, and fight starters. You don't want a "might waste ammo" negative trait in your community, unless, they offer their 5th skill of "hacking" or "demolition" , then you put up with it, because the benefit compensates for the negative effect.

and for the record, gardening and then agriculture is absolutely one of the essential 5th skills to keep in a community. Along with construction, mechanic, medicine. Utilities, those are the nut and bolts traits to have a functioning base.

[Tax evasion]

Originally posted by TheIconicThinkingGamer:

Originally posted by Tax evasion:

You would get rid of survivors for having useless/negative traits, would you? Why not do the same with survivors that have useless 5th skills?

I care about traits even less - ultimately, even having 30-50 more or less health or stamina means nothing in a long run.

Personally, I have made a mod that removes all skill blocking traits (ones that prevent skills from leveling) and useless quirk skills from traits and enjoying the game much better than before, when even creating a fresh community meant rolling through hairdressers and musicians.

Now the only thing that makes me avoid recruiting a stranger is when his 5th skill is already present at my community - and that IS a problem that should have been solved long ago.

I understand that in theory the idea was to make "hard choices", but in reality it simply doesn't fit the gameplay - when you have 7-8 survivors in your community recruiting becomes about finding a survivor that doesn't have a skill you already have - and that process is very tedious.

The game should have an option to unlearn the 5th skill for a high cost to IMPROVE immersion - it will make managing community better, because you could actually attach to characters and not treat them as abstractions first.

Although, I have to admit that right now you can safely remove the survivor by simply sending them to legacy pool, while in the old times there was only one choice - to whack them! Which were much less humane than what we got now.

I used to think no one in the world would become emotionally attached to sod2 characters, since sod2 is not really a story-driven game and there is barely any story for each survivors that you're using. But you proved me wrong, and more power to you if you feel that way i guess.

[V Hubris LOL]

Originally posted by TheIconicThinkingGamer:

Originally posted by WarBucks:

you can always get rid of a character to take in a new one.

They decided long ago that those skills arent going to be removable. its a matter of having to make choices that stick

This is such a st*$%d point - it does nothing but forces you out of immersion and into treating characters like code lines with numbers instead of personalities.

"Just get rid of him, don't care" - that's just sad.

Yeah we get it. Some people can handle games having rules and want to be able to do whatever they want all the time in game.

All of this is OK but choices matter as well as survivors in this game.

Use books, or certain outposts to teach suvivorsnthe fifth skill u want.

Why do you need or want more than 8 survivors? Just something to think about

Permadeath. Permaskills. Unique traits are all what lures players to sod. The dev ain't gonna add what ur asking for.

This isn't a problem that needs to be fixed, you just want it changed and that's OK. Dev ain't gonna do it.

And if skill swapping is in sod3 I will hate it

[Soy Mutant]

Originally posted by V Hubris LOL:

Permadeath. Permaskills. Unique traits are all what lures players to sod. The dev ain't gonna add what ur asking for.

This isn't a problem that needs to be fixed, you just want it changed and that's OK. Dev ain't gonna do it.

And if skill swapping is in sod3 I will hate it

Permadeath is a logical punishment for reaching extreme failure state - it enchances the gameplay, giving weight to the core elements like dangers and player actions, because it fits.

Permaskill is just a restriction - and the only thing it does is occasionally (in the late game - often) forces you to not recruit a survivor AFTER you spent effort (completed a mission or allied the enclave) to get the chance, effectively making that time partially wasted.

I see people use "hard choices" as a saving grace in their arguments, but what exactly is stimulating about a choice between discarding the time spent on getting to be able to recruit a character and having a character with useless 5th skill slot? "Hurray, I get to waste more time on finding other recruit" - is that what you feel?

In fact, there is no choice - the point of community and other survivors is exactly in the 5th skills they bring to the base management - if you aim to have a fully functional advanced community you have to avoid all recruits that have unusable 5th skills, that's all!

On top of that, it's illogical - why can't a character discard his knowledge in order to learn the other? I get that for a difficult field expert like chemistry or programming it would be psychologically hard to switch to other field (which is why the in-game action would have a high cost), but music and arts?

How is character not being able to learn a skill crutial for the survival of his community because he already knows hairdressing NOT supposed to be immersion breaking?

Sorry, pal, but your position has literally no feet to stand on - you just got powned by intellectually superior intellectual.