Double Plague Jugg hordes.

[Kyuirah]

Nightmare difficulty. AI just cant deal with Juggernauts at all. I lost a survivor cause my follower refused to run inside a building with me to hide from a Juggernaut. Later lost a survivor cause I tried to fight a red talon guy while having no meds.

But I was surviving , day 11 or so . I had maybe 7 plague hearts destroyed . Was finally getting survivors to improve my base. And a random double plague juggernaut horde decides to walk in. While we're fighting them a zombie siege starts before we even manage to kill one of them and my entire community dies (all 7 survivors at this point). Yes I could have just ran out of render distance and everything would have been fine but that felt cheap. But at the same time this was insane.

[Gustuv Wynd]

On the higher difficulties...you just can't really use followers in my experience. Though even on normal I don't think followers are worth it. I like the direct control. I want to be able to run a jugg back and forth through my guard tower's area of effect for free ammo or get them to hit other zombies by dodging and controlling their movement. Stuff like that. Bring a follower into the mix and they are going to run up and melee it in the worst place and are very unlikely to dodge and such.

I mean the only thing they are good for is helping with normal hordes and I typically take the silent path and devour them from behind with stealth kills.

[WarBucks]

When you are doing good is typically when the ramp up in difficulty happens. Those standing points accrue.and the spawn rates go up right along with it.

One thing about NM and lethal is never use the watch towers. Even with 50 cals, once the jugs start climbing the ramp thats its the character go melee and get slaughtered.

Why the watch tower has ramps Ill never know.

[Sc0rpiTr0n]

I use followers on lethal and find them very useful.

They do need bit of babysitting, human AI is not perfect.

Never arm AI survivors with crossbow, bolt action rifle or shotgun.

Here are some common weapons best suited for survivors and followers:
RTX Stormbringer
RTX Hordebreaker
Eternal Guard's Infinite Rage
B50FG
Sighted SCAR-H
M1918 BAR
Raider's AR-15

[Protectron]

The watchtower being IN the base is also idiotic.

Realistically speaking, the infected blood and guts of a zombie horde dying inside your base would render the base a biohazard until every inch has been scrubbed with chemicals. It should be a catastrophe if you get some zombies inside the base - like all facilities unusable until a cleaning (repair) action has been finished, and it should take a least 30 minutes. Maybe a "biohazard bar" that fills up as zombies are splattered everywhere.

So yes, the base should have a perimeter defense of course. The Watchtowers 50 meters outside the living space, patrolled by designated survivors, and with a destructible fence.

But as it is now, yes I agree that building a Watchtower on Lethal is pretty much a waste. Gunfire is more concentrated without it.

[Protectron]

Originally posted by Sc0rpiTr0n:

I use followers on lethal and find them very useful.

They do need bit of babysitting, human AI is not perfect.

Never arm AI survivors with crossbow, bolt action rifle or shotgun.

Here are some common weapons best suited for survivors and followers:
RTX Stormbringer
RTX Hordebreaker
Eternal Guard's Infinite Rage
B50FG
Sighted SCAR-H
M1918 BAR
Raider's AR-15

Those are good guns yes, but for base defense purposes (aka carried by your NPC survivors), there are some tiers that it is a good idea to know about:

1. The "you'll be fine for the most part but 2-3 Juggernauts + hordes and a siege may overwhelm your survivors" tier.
* Any 20+ capacity semi-automatic (or select fire) gun of 7.62 caliber power, or smaller caliber semi-automatic (or select fire) guns with Brakes (60% full Power bar or higher).
* Devgru X12 Infiltrator
* Kodiak XL

2. The "full-auto-only handguns/SMG" tier
* G18 Custom Auto (slow reload - Gunslinger recommended)
* Dillinger Pattern 1911 (slow reload - Gunslinger recommended)
* RTX Rampart
* R12 Import
* RTX Cyclone (sidearm version of the R12 Import)
* Raider's Uzi 22
* M3 Grease Gun
* MP40 Submachine Gun (currently available from the Bounty Broker)
* Model 99-50

(note that except for the Raider's Uzi22 and RTX Cyclone/R12 import, these don't sound like full-auto when used by the NPCs, but they do still spray lead)

3. The "red mist" tier
* FBI Fighing Rifle (currently available from the Bounty Broker)
* Barrow-style BAR1918
* BAR1918
* Raider's AK-47
* Raider's AR15
* AA-12 (always available from the Radio once per community... or is it called AA-20?)
* B50FG
* Timberwolf
* Spyglass Rifle (currently available from the Bounty Broker, I think)
* Otoe Howlitzer (not currently available from the Bounty Broker)
* Non-Compliant SKS (not sure if currently available from the Bounty Broker)


Many of these can be found in the Rare Weapons Cases, while others are usually found in Plague Hearts, and the rarest ones only on hostile NPCs. In other words, before you even finish the introductory "get Materials" mission, go and fuel up your car and loot the Rare Weapons Cases. That way, when you start the game, your community will let you hide and watch the fun as they deal with any siege or horde attacking the base... for free.

[Creampie Senpai]

Yeah survivors are dumb so you gotta run away, not hide. This is why I always carry some snacks or even better energy drinks. Pop one when chased by some juggs and your followers AI will try to follow you.

[King Naru The Tyrant]

Originally posted by Kyuirah:

Nightmare difficulty. AI just cant deal with Juggernauts at all. I lost a survivor cause my follower refused to run inside a building with me to hide from a Juggernaut. Later lost a survivor cause I tried to fight a red talon guy while having no meds.

But I was surviving , day 11 or so . I had maybe 7 plague hearts destroyed . Was finally getting survivors to improve my base. And a random double plague juggernaut horde decides to walk in. While we're fighting them a zombie siege starts before we even manage to kill one of them and my entire community dies (all 7 survivors at this point). Yes I could have just ran out of render distance and everything would have been fine but that felt cheap. But at the same time this was insane.

Day 11 and you dont have majority of your survivors in the base packing 50. cals or some really powerful auto shotguns/auto rifles with brakes? Do that mean you also dont have a watchtower?

Sounds like you screwed up, I never lost any survivor in a siege like that before, though I got close but only because my follower likes to run outside the base/right next to the door and get blood plague via AOE jugg floor smashing.


EDIT: I dont know what you guys above are talking about NM watchtowers still make sense. Jugg wont go up there if you aren't up there or at least trying to stay close so they prioritize you and not your group.

I have had 2 juggs wander into my base just before a siege before and I have never lost a single AI from it. The main worry is just your survivors funneling into narrow areas and dying from blood plague or the AOE damage causing them to fall to the ground, allowing for insta-death by jugg.

Which I guess could be the factor for this guy. I am curious what base he was in that allowed for his whole team to get wiped.

[Fenris]

back in the day when i was a wee lad, they had triple jug hordes. you actually had an efficient use of the artillery outpost. It just wasn't efficient to kill that many jugs any other way. a shame they got rid of it.

[The Bored Chairman]

Originally posted by Gustuv Wynd:

On the higher difficulties...you just can't really use followers in my experience. Though even on normal I don't think followers are worth it. I like the direct control. I want to be able to run a jugg back and forth through my guard tower's area of effect for free ammo or get them to hit other zombies by dodging and controlling their movement. Stuff like that. Bring a follower into the mix and they are going to run up and melee it in the worst place and are very unlikely to dodge and such.

I mean the only thing they are good for is helping with normal hordes and I typically take the silent path and devour them from behind with stealth kills.

Yeah, I only use followers as pack mules. I never take them on missions with me, they're just too unreliable.

I ensure that charging into a hostile enclave and getting immediately gunned down only happens to neutrals.

[bLunT]

just need to learn the mechanics a bit more,
basically when you stand any follower you have is on "agressive" and will engage anything in his allowed range.
and when you crouch they are on "passive" and will not fight back even if attacked.
sort of :)

you shouldn've just crouched and the follower would've followed you inside.

[Metro]

Followers are useful on higher difficulties as a lifeline if you run into a difficult situation. You basically sacrifice them and run.

[Didaibr]

I never go out with any follower, When I want to destroy a plague heart I hire someone from an enclave and use then as bait!
If things get to crazy and my follower dont want to follow me and stay to fight I just gtfo and leave him.

And 2 plague-jugg just strolling along IMO is as cheap as running away from render distance/going back to main menu!

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Metro:

Followers are useful on higher difficulties as a lifeline if you run into a difficult situation. You basically sacrifice them and run.

Yeah I think once you have a grasp of lethal followeres become useful again. If you're not comfortable on lethal you just watch your followers die, but the fact that they're dying proves they're useful and buys you time to do more useful things than fighting

[Sc0rpiTr0n]

Originally posted by Geist:

Using followers as bait and disposable mob is not the way I play. I can't reconcile that with my role-playing conscience. I'd rather not play with them at all.

I too try to keep alive all non-hostile humans for role-playing reasons.

But that does not mean you can't use followers as distraction/bait
and keep them alive at the same time.

If you are overwhelmed by zombies run to the car and
leave follower as distraction for zeds.

Then drive to nearest safe place and wait for your follower.

Unless it is against your rules to escape area/move outside zed draw distance
your follower will be just fine.

Just remember to arm your follower with automatic assault rifle or submachine gun
and have some Plague Cure on you at all times.

[Kyuirah]

Soooo Done. AI Followers are worthless, infact WORSE having them with you than going solo. Decide to stop behind barn for some gas . AI follower aggros and starts shooting a lone zombie which brings out the nearby infestation horde and a jugg to kill us both.
Sniper cover only wants to shoot the infinite regular zombies instead of the actual problem.