torpedos are all duds

[Boombaxx]

I have fired 10+ torpedos everyone of them has been a dud. I thought distance it was not arming in time or something. What am i doing wrong

[Savage117]

I have noticed game wise T1 and T2 have roughly the same dud rate if not pre-heated, in real life though T2s were particularly horrible. The real-life equivalents were a little more complex than the ones in game.

T1s in real life were faster (40 Knots) and had a higher max range (7200m) than the T2s and I think T3s. They also left a very visible wake when traveling through the water making them easier to avoid with a watchful crew and skilled captain, this also showed everyone watching which direction the torpedo came from. This is modeled in game, I have had many ships go into alarm mode when a T1 got close to them, so far only corvettes consistently dodge them, but I have had a couple merchants avoid them on a clear day, calm seas, and a semi-bad solution. Not sure if escorts can follow it back to you though, may not be modeled yet.

T2s were slow (30 knots) and realistically had a very short range (3000m) compared to the others, but they leave no wake and are practically silent, meaning your target has no idea they are under attack until it clangs on the hull as a dud or puts a large hole in the hull. Although I like the speed of the T1s I have missed several ships because their friends saw the torpedo on its way and warned the others in time for my target to avoid it. Only way to counter this is to be close and risk being detected.

T3s were better than T2s in many ways, they still only got to 30 knots, but had a longer max range of 5000m, they also had a much lower chance of a dud. They also had a proximity fuse meaning they were able to do more damage to a target than the impact fuse torpedoes like the T1s and 2s, because science! They could sink a ship with a single torpedo versus the two or three needed with T1s and 2s. They also were able to program running patterns into the torpedoes, meaning they could swim a pre-programmed route through a convoy and maximize the chance they would hit something, even if they missed their initial target. I believe this was either a kind of zig zag pattern or a go to certain distance and circle pattern. In game they seem to be faster than T2s but slower than T1s and they seem to do more damage, probably because the devs are trying to mimic the proximity fuse on the real one. But they seem to have a higher dud rate than the others, I have fired about 12 or 13 so far and about 60% have been duds even when pre-heated, I have only fired three non-pre-heated, for testing purposes, and all were duds. Although one of the test T3s actually exploded prematurely close enough to the target to damage it, unlike the other duds that just clanged off the hull.

@CelNav The reasons they fired in salvos wasn't just because of inaccurate shots or low damage due to impact triggers, it was mostly because of how often the torpedoes were duds, if you fire two or three your chance of doing fatal damage went up by a large margin, it also was good for convoys because you still had a chance of hitting something even if one or two missed your initial target. Salvos were especially needed with warships considering the redundancy and armoring of their hulls, meaning they could still fight even after a direct hit.

Personally, I don't mind the way the torpedoes are modeled currently, although, dud rates should at least be decreased for the T3s. What I don't like is how easy it is to be accurate every time, even if you are firing the rear tube at a target in front of you the torpedo happily does a 180 degree turn with no loss in accuracy. In real life the more a torpedo had to turn after leaving the tube the more inaccurate the shot would be. IMO this should be put in the game, maybe make it so you can only get a certain max solution percentage depending on the torpedoes projected course, only able to get 100% when the projected course of the torpedo is straight ahead.

[wolf310ii]

Originally posted by CellNav:

I'm thinking that the term "heat" was more of a reference to the electric torpedoes because they sat in the cold tube for so long they got "cold" (so to speak).

Preheat and cold means really temperature, for max performance batteries need a specific temperature

[wolf310ii]

Originally posted by Savage117:

I have noticed game wise T1 and T2 have roughly the same dud rate if not pre-heated, in real life though T2s were particularly horrible.

In real life, T1 and T2 had the same dud rate. It only looks like the T2 had more duds, because u-boats had more T2 than T1 on board

This is modeled in game, I have had many ships go into alarm mode when a T1 got close to them,

I saw videos on YT where escorts get hit by a torpedo, and no one cares, not even the escort who get the hit.

T3s were better than T2s in many ways, they still only got to 30 knots, but had a longer max range of 5000m, they also had a much lower chance of a dud. They also had a proximity fuse meaning they were able to do more damage to a target than the impact fuse torpedoes like the T1s and 2s, because science!

The T1 and T2 had also a proximity fuse (wich was one of the reason for the high dud rate)

They also were able to program running patterns into the torpedoes

Not in the standard T3, only in T1 FAT, T1 LUT, T3 FAT, T3 LUT

[Kyrah Abattoir]

Another bit of food for thoughts, torpedoes where guided with a purely mechanical gyroscope. Part of the firing solution is to decide how much "twist" to give the gyro to steer the torpedo in the right approach with the enemy vessel.

After a set travel time, the gyroscope would be released from its brake and would assume control of the torpedo steering. If a "twist" was given to it before launch, this will cause the torpedo to turn one side or the other until it reaches the angle the gyro was twisted to.

This also takes time, and your ship is never perfectly in line with the target, so some steering always happens.

[Boombaxx]

Sunk 6 ships all close range less than 1km i was not preheating the torps. Luckily they were all disarmed. Not so sure about the deck gun it's liks trying to hit a moving target with someone nudging you in the back all the time. Really hard it is WW2 and i suppose thats what it was like. I cannot find the ventilator though where is it.

[Sneaky_Bugger]

There is a perk for engineers that makes them heat torps 25% or so slower but they wont be duds and that is guaranteed. Actually a nice perk to have but then I can´t remember a fish failing when I pre-heated it.

[chksix]

Only electric torpedoes needed heating. Hopefully the dev removes the requirement on the T1’s

[Savage117]

Originally posted by chksix:

Only electric torpedoes needed heating. Hopefully the dev removes the requirement on the T1’s

I'm not sure of this but I heard from somewhere, that "pre-heating" a T1 was just a slight misnomer. It meant a last minute maintenance check of the torpedo and pre-heating of the oil in the engine before launch. It was done to be sure the torpedo functioned at peak efficiency. So technically there was still a procedure done to the torpedo before launch to improve its chances of a good hit.

Technically neither torpedo type "required" "pre-heating" but the sailors that used them found that it helped lower the chances of a dud due to failure of the torpedoes engine and moving parts. Unfortunately none of this lowered the chance of it being a dud due to failure of the trigger and explosive mechanism both the T1 and T2 used.

Here's an interesting bit of history that made me cringe in sympathy for this U-boat captain concerning the frequent failure of the T2s. "the British battleship HMS Nelson managed to survive almost certain destruction when three torpedoes from U-56 struck on her keel, two broke upon hitting and the other failed to explode. Captain Wilhelm Zahn of U-56 was so depressed by the evident futility of his efforts that he needed to be briefly relieved of duty by Admiral Karl Dönitz in order to compose himself." Sheesh, it sounds like that moment practically broke one of the U-boat captains, a group famed for their bravery and toughness in the face of long odds. I'm surprised he was depressed instead of extraordinarily angry at the leadership who consistently blamed the duds on operator error when it was obvious it was a design issue.

[Savage117]

Originally posted by wolf310ii:

Originally posted by Savage117:

I have noticed game wise T1 and T2 have roughly the same dud rate if not pre-heated, in real life though T2s were particularly horrible.

In real life, T1 and T2 had the same dud rate. It only looks like the T2 had more duds, because u-boats had more T2 than T1 on board

Sorry I was a bit ambiguous with that one, I meant "particularly horrible" as in, the torpedo as a whole was worse than the T1 with the added disadvantage of having the same poorly designed trigger and exploding mechanism of the T1s.

Originally posted by wolf310ii:

Originally posted by Savage117:

This is modeled in game, I have had many ships go into alarm mode when a T1 got close to them,

I saw videos on YT where escorts get hit by a torpedo, and no one cares, not even the escort who get the hit.

Yes, it is rather buggy, I have had the same thing happen multiple times where they don't seem to care. But I'm very sure it is modeled in game, according to the game they had no other reason to go into alarm, I was still undetected and no one had been hit by a torpedo yet, and it only ever happened to me with the T1s.

Originally posted by wolf310ii:

Originally posted by Savage117:

T3s were better than T2s in many ways, they still only got to 30 knots, but had a longer max range of 5000m, they also had a much lower chance of a dud. They also had a proximity fuse meaning they were able to do more damage to a target than the impact fuse torpedoes like the T1s and 2s, because science!

The T1 and T2 had also a proximity fuse (wich was one of the reason for the high dud rate)

I got much of this information from Wiki, it implied that the proximity trigger on the T3s was much less prone to duds and a new feature. It didn't go into great detail as to why T1s and 2s were duds, only saying that it was an inadequately tested "mechanical/magnetic exploder". So I guess it was both an impact and proximity trigger? Funnily enough the Americans had pretty much the same problems with their Mark 14 torpedo during WW2 including the political issues of the leadership telling them it was because of operator error that the torpedoes were failing.

Originally posted by wolf310ii:

Originally posted by Savage117:

They also were able to program running patterns into the torpedoes

Not in the standard T3, only in T1 FAT, T1 LUT, T3 FAT, T3 LUT

Yep missed that part on the Wiki.

[BlackSeed_CH]

FYI:

https://uboat.net/technical/torpedoes.htm

happy reading

[Moose Trot Actual]

I know which Uboat skipper Cellnav is talking about but i cannot think of the name. that being said, if its the skipper i think it is, he died rather horribly, as his leg got cut off when a ship rammed the conning tower of the sub when they were trying to fire from inside the convoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUgxDZ4jCcs&fbclid=IwAR1hfRm2XeQ4ohs5ziKS6iERJ42rdShhYXS0mi6kky8fWVbgoei5bVoB4nw

[El Rushbo]

Catching the earlier arguments about distance, most ideal torpedo attacks were done closer than 1000m. While the torpedoes were capable of longer range, the probability of a miss was high, especially if the torpedo was spotted or the convoy decides to spontaneously turn while the torpedo is in transit. Closer range lessens that possibility. The skill of a submarine ace is not in aiming a long range shot, but by getting in close without being detected. Advances in technology and changes in escort tactics made this much more difficult later in the war thus necessitating the development of pattern running and acoustic homing torpedoes to increase the chance of a hit from a distance. As far as a massive amount of duds go, maybe there's a saboteur in port?

[wolf310ii]

Originally posted by El Rushbo:

As far as a massive amount of duds go, maybe there's a saboteur in port?

The T1 and T2 were not propelerlly tested in devolopment befor they put them into service.
they testet the torpedos mainly from landbased stations and never under combat conditions on a u-boat

[El Rushbo]

True, but a good number of those issues were identified and corrected, especially by 1941.

[SpiritFire]

while i shoot mine average at around 2-3km (3k tops) away... ive shot quite a few at 1k but i feel more comfortable at 2-3. i shoot at around 95%+ ident.

i just wanted to help with the 'dud' issue.

if you leave your torpedo guy awake and busy, he will do periodic 'maintenance' to reduce the risks of a 'dud'. he is basically the only officer i never force to sleep.

If your trying to use someone that isnt a torpedo engineer, im not sure you can do this. You can only warm them up and load them, and then have to do it manually.
Ive very very rarely have had a dud.
As for my shooting from 2-3km.. i almost never get a miss if they do not have an alarm sounded yet. I tend not to throw more than 2 either at a time, becuase the ship gets hit by the first one, then suddenly stops.. a second one migfht hit the end of the ship and third will fly on past and miss usually.
I also will hold salvos until they go back to a course heading after an alarm.
I stay underwater otherwise they will usually try to turn away.