Too easy or too hard..

[NataliiaV]

I find that the sandbox is way too easy compared to 2PH - to the point that I just lose interest because there's zero challenge. But challenge mode is much much harder and is rendered borderline impossible by the fact that you can't send a patient home so I feel like I have zero control. Is it just me that would much rather have something in between in terms of the level of difficulty?

[Noontide]

Would heartily welcome more feedback on this from the community. Challenge mode is a response to the community's wishes but so far feedback has been a bit light on the ground.

Internally it worked quite well for us, and relies much more on utilising your tools well rather than sending people home you can't deal with. But I can see how that could be frustrating or balanced too high.

[muttala]

mutation create rush for me and money are tighter, i just wish perhaps a harder easy or an easier hard.

[FeralFerret]

I think many people, myself included, would like more granularity and settings to tailor the difficulty. Some sliders for the aspects of challenge mode would be wonderful.

[ChillPuma]

I found the story/sandbox too easy. The jump to challenge mode is very high, too high. You quickly lose control and have no chance to react. The suggestion here, more options to adjust the difficulty.

Then I would like to try again, currently I have completely failed with the challenge mode.

[Noontide]

I certainly understand the feedback and desire for more configurability in the game's difficulty. I will push for this internally.

For the moment the feedback is indicating that getting into challenge mode is quite the leap. It is intentional for it to be much harder however I'm soliciting more feedback from across the community on how people feel about challenge mode.

I would certainly love for greater configurability to be placed in the player's hands but for the moments that is not on the cards for a variety of reasons related to the technical backend. But I'll certainly bang the drum on that front.

[muttala]

if the workload is too high for this, there are 2 options

1) Just make the story harder and challenge mode easier, provided there are such a pro that can beat challenge mode

2) Simply create a in between mode that is middle average of the two by number - make things easier for you guys

[Fleshoftheinertgod]

Story mode is pretty easy as far as I've played (starting 4th hospital), although I would appreciate more accurate info on what I need to get 5 stars, something like a colour gradient for how well decorated an area is. I haven't tried challenge mode yet.

[An Angelineer]

Might be a specific problem, but I started challenge mode on a save/profile where I already completed the game.
So when I finish the "story" part of chapter 1, All the rooms and diseases "unlock" again because I am now in "sandbox", where all the stuff you seen on the save file become available.

But the space available on the first map is very small. It's hard to have two copies of every room and even by demolishing and replacing rooms constantly, it is very hard to adapt to the waves of mutated patients that keep coming.

I'm never in danger to lose, but trying to get those 5 stars is quickly (or should I say, eventually) becoming a drag. It feels like I'll have to stay on this map for hours to grind XP/craftium for my doctors and equipment in order to get that tiny bit of efficiency I need to go from 4,9 to 5 stars.
...and while doing that for a while is fair and fun, it doesn't really stay that way for 3+ hours.

Some small adjustments would be enough to remove that grind aspect while keeping challenge mode, well, challenging. Just making mood slightly easier to maintain high, or having patients die a tiny bit slower, might even be enough to strike this sweet spot where the game's hard mode is "appropriately challenging, but not too grindy".

...especially on the earlier, smaller maps. Where you just can't scale your hospital in the same way than in later maps, and that makes it hard to dodge how mutation waves will drag your rating down. I mean, it may be challenge mode, but it's still level 1! So it's kind of ironic the limited space ends up making it hard! XD
The change I talk about might not be even needed on later levels, or could even only be applied to when the "story" part is over and the map "switches to sandbox".

But don't get me wrong. A long comment like this might imply a grouchy attitude and a big problem, but it's not that big of an issue, the game difficulty is overall on point, IMHO.
There is just that grinding for 5 stars that, ideally, could be made a little shorter. It's not very interesting to go through, and when you have limited time to play each day like myself, that kind of "get upgrades slowly over hours" gameplay is slightly annoying. So my feedback is that if the grind was adjusted to be shorter, it would go from good to perfection.
And, depending on your other feedbacks, you guys can see if it's worth implementing. :)

[Noontide]

Originally posted by An Angelineer:

Might be a specific problem, but I started challenge mode on a save/profile where I already completed the game.
So when I finish the "story" part of chapter 1, All the rooms and diseases "unlock" again because I am now in "sandbox", where all the stuff you seen on the save file become available.

But the space available on the first map is very small. It's hard to have two copies of every room and even by demolishing and replacing rooms constantly, it is very hard to adapt to the waves of mutated patients that keep coming.

The next update will be making some adjustments to how the spawner works in sandbox mode. Essentially we'll be changing it so that only rooms which are unlocked by that point in the campaign will have conditions spawn if you don't have those rooms.

However you as the player can still decide to place other rooms, in which case for as long as these rooms are in your hospital conditions that have those rooms in their treatment journey can also spawn.

What this means is that in level 1 only conditions which require either the Skin Lab or the Boning Chamber can be spawned by default, but if you place a Dreamarium you'll start to see Dreamarium conditions too.

We're still experimenting on whether mutations should obey these same rules or should continue to gradually disrupt you. But at the very least limiting how the normal spawner disrupts you in this manner should alleviate a lot of the frustration.

Some small adjustments would be enough to remove that grind aspect while keeping challenge mode, well, challenging. Just making mood slightly easier to maintain high, or having patients die a tiny bit slower, might even be enough to strike this sweet spot where the game's hard mode is "appropriately challenging, but not too grindy".

I've been tweaking the rating requirements internally and loosening some of them particularly with regards to species desires, successful treatments and mood. Hopefully this should reduce the grind and keep challenge mode focussed on what it's about. Surviving long enough to win.

[An Angelineer]

Sounds like a good "tinkering angle" to mitigate/remove this issue that you have here.
Good luck with implementing it. :)

[An Angelineer]

Just to say, as I thought, getting 5 stars on challenge mode proved less tedious on the following maps. The limited space of map 1 in particular makes it hard to handle the case where all diseases are unlocked.
Now, I am playing challenge on a save on which I have beaten the game, so my consultants are high level and i even have the ohde and human "artefacts", so this is probably very tough to do by starting on challenge mode with everything at level 1... but that's probably what the most hardcore crowd out there wants.

[An Angelineer]

But now i am getting "blocked at 4,9 stars" on map 6 again. So it really seems the difficulty of "5 stars on challenge mode" quite is map-dependant.
I stay at 4.9 forever, only missing 2% mood on patients to get those 5 stars. this is very frustrating. All my rooms are upgraded. I have biostasis beacons and other devices everywhere, my doctors are very high level, and despite all that grind, I just can't get 5 stars!

...This was my original argument : it really is almost good. just make it slightly easier to maintain the mood of doctors and patients up, and the game's difficulty will be golden. But now, it is still quite too grindy on several maps :(

[Noontide]

Originally posted by An Angelineer:

But now i am getting "blocked at 4,9 stars" on map 6 again. So it really seems the difficulty of "5 stars on challenge mode" quite is map-dependant.
I stay at 4.9 forever, only missing 2% mood on patients to get those 5 stars. this is very frustrating. All my rooms are upgraded. I have biostasis beacons and other devices everywhere, my doctors are very high level, and despite all that grind, I just can't get 5 stars!

...This was my original argument : it really is almost good. just make it slightly easier to maintain the mood of doctors and patients up, and the game's difficulty will be golden. But now, it is still quite too grindy on several maps :(

In the next update there'll be a rebalance of the general requirements as well as a curve being applied to the requirements that scale based off map size. (Throughput & Finances)

Below is the numbers I have in my notes.

• Species Desires reduced by 20%
  
• Treatment Rate reduced by 10%
  
• Patient Health reduced by 6%
  
• Treatment Rate (Reduced by 10%):
  
• Patient Health (Reduced by 6%):
  
• Rebalanced the ratings requirements by campaign level for a more natural curve.

In my testing I didn't regularly get stuck on patient mood so the target score has not been adjusted. However this may actually be the result of a separate oversight being fixed.

Xil characters were not getting enough mood from their species desires as we'd removed some other mood factors from them. So if you have Xil characters in the hospital that may be a cause. In the update you'll find the Xil should receive a greater impact from their spcies desire on their mood.

[An Angelineer]

Right now, I am having the "grind problem" on map 6, "Many Me", on which everyone is an Ohde. So the Xil bug clearly isn't the issue for this particular map lol
But overall, what you're describing here sound like it's on point. Just slightly easier should be enough to remove that "4.9 to 5" grind and I'm looking forward to seeing that rebalancing in the game.
...Guess I might suspend my challenge mode playthrough and wait for that patch, then. Or maybe I'll do the maps without the 5 stars bit, and then end them after patch hits. I'm gonna see.