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The goal with TotF2 is to make it as realistic as I can possibly achieve with the resources available to me. I expect it to be a huge step up from TotF1. It would be amazing if competition boxers found it useful enough for training, but it's hard to say at this point if that's a realistic possibility.
Absolutely none at all. When I first made TotF I had never even watched a boxing match. I just thought boxing sounded like a good fit for VR, did a lot of research, and listened closely to user feedback.
I think what's kind of missing for your next installment of TotF are tutorials and training. Something I really want to see which would be quite interesting is a double end bag with a full 360 room coverage (technically there is one but it's only focused on evading).
I'm not sure how you'll handle body shots, but it takes a load of body shots to take someone down (though once they do go down, it's very easy to knock them down 1 round later unless it's Artist on Normal and lower).
I definitely want to have in-game training that actually teaches you what you should be doing, and I want the mechanics to be realistic enough to force you to actually use real-world technique in order to succeed.
Basically, I think TotF1 achieved the ability for people to take what works well in the real world and apply it successfully in game. However, it doesn't do the opposite - just because you find something that's successful in game doesn't mean that it's something that would work in the real world. For TotF2, my primary goal is to fix that and have it be realistic enough that anything that works in the game is going to work in the real-world, too. No matter what, that's something I'll be aiming to achieve.
It's too early to say what else is going to make it into TotF2, but actual guided training is a high priority to me.
TotF2 is going to be similar to TotF1 in some respects since I was also trying to make TotF1 feel realistic, but TotF is not going to be based on TotF1. Don't think about anything in TotF2 in terms of TotF1, as it's all going to be rethought from scratch.
I'm glad you're enjoying it! That's a good amount of room to play in.
I never set out specifically to make TotF into an exercise game, but it does make me really happy to hear how it's encouraged many people to be active. One of the core design principles I adopted early on was that I wanted the player to progress by improving themself in the real-world and not through something artificial like assigning stat points to your avatar or anything like that. I think it's an amazing aspect of VR how you can take a real-world thing that people wouldn't normally choose to do or be able to do and give players the opportunity and encouragement to do it.
Would be great to choose a fun boxing nick name for myself. Especially when TTOTF2 will have multiplayer mode.
Anyway heres my advice
1. Uppercuts, most of the times i throw short tight uppercuts that would land in real life, it gets caught on the body which just feels weird
2. Damage of a punch. You got the main spots right, e.g clipping a chin to knock someone out, liver, solar plexus etc but one thing that feels lacking that i'm not sure if you know, although those are the best places to hit, you can still rock someone or even drop someone with punches higher up on the chin/cheek, it's almost like my punches do nothing unless i get it right on the button, but in real life although those punches are much more effective, punching in other places can do a lot.
3 Ai needs a lot of work, i understand you're a sole developer and you've done great, just trying to tell you how you can make the best game possible, i know you won't be able to do all this, anyway the AI just feels basic and not very smart, e.g a soft jab to the body and they drop their hands exposing your chin, in real life it doesn't work like this, you need to land one, or many hard body shots to get them to drop their hands, this is just an example. Also maybe they can pick ups on habits you have, specifically bad ones, and punish you for it
4 wearing your opponent down. It seems almost impossible in this game, this amplifies this point i was making about only certain shots seeming to do something while others just seem to score, this is also amplified for me as i like to wear my opponents down over rounds
5 infighting. Seems impossible in this game and just doesn't really work, if you wanna know a bit about in fighting watch maybe some breakdowns on Duran, one of the greatest in fighters in history, here are two i like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv_tGIpsfD4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbVHQHpHWqw
6 footwork, i'm not sure how possible this is, again idk about game development, but it seems the opponents in thrill of the fight one just seem to go backwards, forwards, and maybe sometimes circle a bit, it would be nice if you could get them moving around, pivoting and creating new angles so they can open you up.
7 little things don't seem to work, for example in real life i like to sometimes throw a short hook to my opponents shoulders while i'm in close, this does a few things, can block their shots, and moves them off balance, both completely taking away power from the punch they have thrown and opening them up for me to punch. Just the little things in boxing that just don't really work so far, there are hundreds more examples
8 it would be nice if you could add a smart ref that could break up clinching, take away points for cheating etc etc, it would also be cool if you could add an option to randomise the ref so they enforce rules differently, e.g one ref will let clinching go on for like 20 seconds plus where as another ref would break up clinching automatically. Just to randomise the game play and make it feel more real, a different fight every time.
9. Body shots, they are just weird in this game, don't seem to work right at all, i'm not sure if you know this but in real life a body shot hurts a fair bit more than a shot to the face
10. Styles, it would be nice if you could have opponents with different styles, like you could do the 3 basic styles, like the boxer, swarmer, puncher, and if you wanted you could delve into even more styles, here is some knowledge on that https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/the-different-styles-of-boxing.556543/
it would also be nice if possible if you could have some more unconventional styles
e.g maybe a wild puncher that is super strong but wild and doesn't know how to box like Wilder
a bob and weave style like say marciano or frazier
a peekaboo style like iron mike
a boring but technical style like klitchko
someone who likes to dance on their feet like ali
a master of never getting hit and just scoring like mayweather
a infighter like duran
etc etc
11. maybe be able to put in your weight class in the game and adjust the opponents accordingly, e.g a heavyweight will have a lot harder, more powerful hits, but a slower work rate and a lot slower punches where as a light weight will have to hit you a lot more but will be 10 times as fast and punch way more
12. Maybe have it so in the different weight classes the weight of the gloves is different e.g lower weights use 8 ounces, higher weights use 10 ounces, which will again affect the speed, but also maybe the size of the gloves so different punching can sneak through the guard.
13. Maybe have like an amateur and pro class with refs enforcing the rules differently like it is in real life.
14. i'd personally like it if realistic was the hardest mode where the opponents are actually at or near the level of high level boxer or as close as you can get, either way the hardest you got. cause the most realistic i found was maxing out everything in custom settings except the chin/pain resistance.
15. If you are going to add multiplayer, i feel setting up tournaments and competitions would be cool, and actually have it so other people can watch and spectate, hell even have actual belts in the vr world that people can hold and fight each other for, serious, imagine having a VR title, or a couple different level titles, where people can watch the big vr fights, to me this would be absolutely amazing and would bring the game to a whole new level, hell if you really wanted to get into it, you could make mandatory fights so opponents aren't cherry picking, making it a full 12 round title fight. Have this on top of standard quick play, and for these mandatory fights that are actual events actually have a record and stuff that people could view with each player having stats, like for example box rec in real life, rip off that, if you could do this i'd easily pay 50 dollars more srs, cause this would make multiplayer more than just a gimmick. Hell even have ring walks and chit, this would really immerse everyone into the boxing world in the vr game.
16. This one would be really far future but vr boxing gloves, say you got rich one day making all this and are still making these games, vr boxing gloves would be a sweet idea, gloves that are in the shape of gloves, feel like gloves, in the weight of gloves, but are controllers.
17. Graphics. To me this is by far the least important thing, hell i'd be happy to downgrade the graphics if we got even half the stuff i've mentioned.
I may have gone a bit off the rails at the end their, But seriously apart from physics and game mechanics, if you are gonna add anything, 15 to me sounds like the coolest thing ever while i'm still working on getting their in real life myself.
I'm seeing a lot of people talking about adding tutorials and in depth training. personally i think that's just silly, as whatever you'll learn in the game you'll be able to learn off youtube, and if you actually want to know how to box anyway, you should be going to a real gym. But maybe i'm Bias.
I know i've said a lot here, and i know their is no way you'll even get half the stuff in the real game, but i'm just trying to spew out new ideas and dream about my ideal vr boxing game.
And overall your first game was great, but i seriously recommend you read everything i put as apart from a few things, i feel like 99 percent of it is good insight and helpful, again i've only played an hour or the game and haven't ventured out from the first opponent, so many of my points could be useless.
If you have any questions to ask me about my ideas or real boxing, feel free i wanna help as much as i can.
On a side note THE BIGGEST THING i think would help your game, is spending 2 months in a real, good ol fashioned boxing gym. Also spar, spar as much as you can, trust me you'll learn so much you never knew and never even thought of from watching boxing, to some real good ole sparring, seriously though i can't stress enough how big of a thing that is.
Lastly you've done great with your first game and whatever you come out with will be great.
seriously though number 15. seems like a great idea.
I appreciate the feedback. I agree with pretty much everything you've said and in a perfect world it will all be in TotF2. But in a perfect world, it would also all have already been in TotF1, too. A lot of stuff is the way it is in TotF1 not because it's the way I thought it should be, but because it was what I was able to achieve with the resources I had. For example, for your #7 each and every one of these hundreds of things needs to be identified and accounted for individually, whereas I spent most of my development time for TotF1 just trying to get the bigger picture stuff in a reasonably acceptable place. This is also why the AI is as uncapable as it is (regarding #3 and #14).
On top of that, when certain areas fell short, other areas needed to be warped a bit to make up for it. For example, the fact that the AI isn't very capable means they'll land less hits and be much easier to hit. To make up for that somewhat, the focus on hitting weak areas was exaggerated a bit and they were made intentionally challenging to hit reliably. If the opponent had great footwork, distance keeping, and defense the weak areas could be a little easier to hit and the landing a big hit just generally to the side of the head could be more effective as well.
There are also some things like #6 that were done intentionally in consideration of users generally having small play areas and corded headsets.
The whole point of TotF2 is to start with a blank slate and with more resources and a better foundation to try to capture some of these things you're mentioning. I think it will be a huge step up from TotF1, but it's still going to fall short in many areas just due to the nature of it being a commercial project with a limited budget and development timeline. At this point, I'll consider it a big milestone if it even gets made at all!
My suggestion will be some kind of Career mode . I am a stats geek so I like to keep track of things. I dont think it can be that hard to have a generic career mode
You climb up fictional rankings for example 40-30 (ranked) can be pretty much same model fighter. Then it changes for 30-20 a harder version . Then you go 20-10 again something more generic and you can actually have "real" fighters for top 10 that you gotta beat to climb up.
once you beat the champion you do defenses against the same top 10 players
It could be added in TF 1 I guess use the 12-15 boxers we have and we can make it happen
It can become more complex in time for example
Doing great it training drills before fight can give you some boost (survive a ko , increased punc modificer by 0.10 for the next fight , take more dmg without getting knocked down)
Its just nice to keep track. I mean going 30-0 and then winning a title then trying to you put harder mode and try to climb the rankings and win the title again.
It will give u a sense of goal/rtack purerly cosmetic u can do it in your mind also but its better to see it
What can we do to help? I would really love to see where this could go. Are you working on any other projects at the moment? I'm sure you could use a break hahaha, but I'm really looking forward to your next title. Whatever it is, I'd buy it just because you have been a solid developer. That is hard to come by nowadays. Keep us posted!
I appreciate the encouragement!
At the moment I'm trying to find the right partners and getting the costs figured out. If it looks like I'll need some sort of funding in order to get the project off the ground then I'll probably do some form of fundraising. Otherwise, just sit tight, and I'll try to get some form of beta out as soon as I have something I feel is worth releasing.