Floating gloves on Oculus and a fix

[Barney "630" Garrison]

EDIT: I came up with a much better fix that works great. See imgur album how-to here: https://imgur.com/a/QrfrZ

I've been having the 'floating right glove' issue on Oculus a fair amount, especially when the fight gets intense. Long story short, I think I've found the cause and a fix.

In my case, the force of throwing punches actually seems to be compressing the spring in the battery compartment of the touch controller, causing momentary power losses/brownouts to the touch controller. This is because when the spring compresses, the positive terminal of the AA battery (the 'bump' side) stops making solid electrical contact with the controller terminal. Sometimes this just makes the tracking go weird for a moment, but in rare cases I've even had it cause the controller to completely lose sync until I pulled the battery out for several seconds and re-inserted it.

The way to fix it is that you need to shim the battery to create more compression in the spring. (Note that I take zero responsibility if you somehow mess this up and short out your controller--if you have no idea about how electronics work then maybe you shouldn't attempt this.)

Ok, disclaimer aside, all you need is a thin piece of something electrically conductive that you can insert between the spring and the negative (flat) side of the battery. For my test I used a piece of aluminum foil that I'd folded a number of times to give it some thickness. It should be very close to the same size and shape as the end of the battery. If it's too big, it'll create friction or bind inside the battery cutout of the controller and may make the problem worse.

The correct thickness should be just enough that you can still get the battery in and out without extreme force. This will create less room for free play of the battery and also provide more force from the spring since it is compressed further.

After testing this mod I've had zero floating glove issues and in general my right hand punches now track noticeably more consistently than in the past. It's gone from a frustrating experience to a much more enjoyable one.

There are probably better ways of implementing this fix than my folded tin foil experiment. An aluminum disc the same diameter as the end of the battery and about .030" thick would probably be ideal.

[traden1976]

@Peek: thanks! I'll give it a try.

Here are the 3 scenarios I've encountered:

1) Both the glove and controler disappear, usually get stuck somewhere.

2) I still have rotation, but no translation tracking.

3) Glove disappears but controller remains.

You're probably right in thinking it's all related to the battery. With just rotation, I'm asssuming the accelerometer kicks in first. The third is the rarest, I'm assuming it's when tracking is lost during a physics step. I have the ai's punch speed set to 135%, not sure if that has an effect.

[Ian (Sealost)]

Originally posted by traden1976:

@Peek: thanks! I'll give it a try.

Here are the 3 scenarios I've encountered:

1) Both the glove and controler disappear, usually get stuck somewhere.

2) I still have rotation, but no translation tracking.

3) Glove disappears but controller remains.

You're probably right in thinking it's all related to the battery. With just rotation, I'm asssuming the accelerometer kicks in first. The third is the rarest, I'm assuming it's when tracking is lost during a physics step. I have the ai's punch speed set to 135%, not sure if that has an effect.

You know, I had just assumed you were using an Oculus Rift since that's the topic of the thread, but I never did confirm. What headset are you using?

The reason I ask specifically is because #1 and #2 were happening for another user who was using a WindowsMR headset, and it was being caused by Bluetooth interference. In their case, the controller would snap to the floor at their feet (and the glove would follow), but would continue to mimic the rotation of their hand. They started using a USB bluetooth dongle instead of what was built into their motherboard, and it fixed the issue.

I'm actually not sure how the battery loss issue from the OP appears when it happens, as I haven't triggered it first-hand. I think I've heard users say sometimes the glove freezes in air and the controller disappears, while sometimes the controller and gloves drift off together.

#3 might be happening as a result of the glove getting stuck under the floor after it drifts off or something like that. I will look into having the gloves teleport it back to the controller position if they end up too far away.

During the physics step, the glove just drives to the current position of the controller, so if tracking was lost between physics steps, the glove would drive to wherever SteamVR/Oculus is telling the game the controller is currently at. If you were to shut off a controller, the target being tracked would stop having its position updated, so the glove would freeze in place at the last tracked location.

[traden1976]

@fyiandev: You are correct. I'm using the oculus rift with 2 sensors. I have the opponent set to front facing so I don't have issues with occlusion. 80% of the time tracking is lost in my left hand controller, but I'm assuming it's because I throw alot of jabs and left hooks.

"During the physics step, the glove just drives to the current position of the controller, so if tracking was lost between physics steps, the glove would drive to wherever SteamVR/Oculus is telling the game the controller is currently at. If you were to shut off a controller, the target being tracked would stop having its position updated, so the glove would freeze in place at the last tracked location." - Ah, makes sense, thanks!

I'm running in Oculus rift mode which helps. When I lose tracking I pause the game, shake the controllers a bit and it eventually snaps back.

But to be honest, the Rift was never tested for these levels of exercise and strain. You can tell by how bad the default foam in the headset absorbs sweat, I had to purchase the VRCover ones that can be wiped down with Lysol wipes because the regular foam would stay gross for hours.

People talk about Beat Saber and Box VR(I own both) as being good workouts, and I kinda chuckle a bit. I've lost 30lbs with diet + TOTF, I hop in BoxVR and it takes 30 min just to break a sweat now.

Cheers.

[myvroommail]

Hi dev,
Since recently (may 2018?) I have a problem with flying gloves. I captured it on video, butyou can see on this vide only "soft case" of flying gloves, usually I lose gloves for several seconds...
I used to enjoy this game as a perfect work out game but can not do it anylonger(
I am using HTC Vive and I am not sure that is my hardware problem since I have no problems with other games.
Thanks!
Link to video: https://youtu.be/IGQKS_X9IMA (start at 0:40)

[Ian (Sealost)]

Originally posted by myvroommail:

Hi dev,
Since recently (may 2018?) I have a problem with flying gloves. I captured it on video, butyou can see on this vide only "soft case" of flying gloves, usually I lose gloves for several seconds...
I used to enjoy this game as a perfect work out game but can not do it anylonger(
I am using HTC Vive and I am not sure that is my hardware problem since I have no problems with other games.
Thanks!
Link to video: (start at 0:40)

Hello!

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but from the video it looks like you are on the default/main branch of the game and are not opted into the beta. The main branch hasn't had any changes since mid-April. That might help us narrow down on if it was a change that came with an update to the game or if it must be caused by something else.

Thank you for providing video footage - that is helpful for troubleshooting. If you can, please record with the controller outlines turned on (through the in-game settings menu). If your computer can handle it without performance issues, turning the third-person camera on through the in-game settings menu will also provide a better look at what's going on.

The controller outlines are positioned directly by the SteamVR plugin code. If those controller models are drifting off like your gloves are, then that suggests its a problem outside of the control of TotF. This means it could be a problem with the SteamVR Unity plugin, the SteamVR runtime, or with your hardware or setup. If you're not experiencing the problem in other games, then it's likely because the other games aren't putting as much physical stress on your controllers. For example, this thread is about a user discovering that throwing full-force straight punches was causing the battery's in his controllers to lose connection. Not many games would exhibit that problem. The Vive controllers don't have loose batteries like that, but there are other internal components that may be affected by high speeds or sudden, extreme changes in acceleration. If I jar my Vive controller by bumping it against my palm, I get noticeable jitter and drifting from the controller. From the video, it looks like you throw very fast straight punches that might be jarring some components in a similar way. If you intentionally slow your movements slightly, do you still notice tracking issues?

If it has been a long time since you have gone through SteamVR room setup, you might want to try going through it again. I was having tracking issues at one point and this fixed my issues. It seems that maybe very small movements from the lighthouses (maybe the mounts settling and moving very slightly) cause tracking to get worse over time, and re-running room setup adjusts everything to the new positions.

You may also want to try opting into the SteamVR beta branch (or out of it if you're already in it) to see if that makes any difference.

You could also try opting into TotF's beta branch, but that likely won't make a difference unless this is a side-effect of a performance issue, in which case the beta version of the game might have slightly better performance.

[Tallica]

Hi dude, is there a way to prevent the gloves on WMR ending on the other side of the ring and not tracking well?

[Ian (Sealost)]

Originally posted by Tallica:

Hi dude, is there a way to prevent the gloves on WMR ending on the other side of the ring and not tracking well?

Hi!

WMR poses some unique tracking problems with TotF due to the camera positioning and FoV. You won't be able to hold your hands too high or too close to your face without things going a little crazy. Because of that, I've intentionally not marked support for WMR on the Steam page and have a section in the game's Steam description about WMR stating such.

With that said, though, I have plenty of happy WMR players, and I'd love to help troubleshoot however I can.

First off, make sure the controller outlines are turned on in the game's settings, as they can be used to debug problems. The controller outlines are positioned directly by SteamVR and should be exactly where SteamVR thinks your controllers are. If the controller outlines aren't lining up with your real-world controllers, then there's something causing problems beyond the game's code. Noting how the controllers are misbehaving can shed some light on what the problem might be, though.

One WMR user here on the forums was having an issue where their controller would snap to the floor and only show rotational movement before returning to the right location a few seconds later. This user was using the on-board Bluetooth radio built into their motherboard or as an add-on card (with a little antenna on the back of their computer) which was causing the problem. They changed over to using a USB Bluetooth dongle and it fixed this issue.

Other WMR users have reported the same problem as outlined in the original post of this thread - throwing some types of strong punches can make the battery lose contact and quickly cut the power to the controller, causing it to freeze or skip. Those users were able to fix the issue in the same way the the original post recommends.

If you hold your hands too close to your headset or too high (above about cheek level for my Lenovo Explorer), then the tracking cameras won't be able to see your controller rings. This usually results in the controllers freezing in place where they lost tracking and maybe drifting around a bit through whatever back-up tracking algorithms Microsoft has in place. Less common, but still potentially an issue would be throwing a punch and looking away from it so that it goes outside of the tracking cameras' FoV. I don't think this is a common case, but I'm not sure what might happen - the controller may still try to travel based off the accelerometer data and may travel farther than your fist does.

Let me know if any of that helps.

[Ian (Sealost)]

Originally posted by traden1976:

I've lost 30lbs with diet + TOTF, I hop in BoxVR and it takes 30 min just to break a sweat now.

I wanted to make sure to say congratulations, man! That's awesome!

[YoeyYutch]

1. Get a third sensor. Everything works better with a third sensor. Use a USB 2.0 repeater cable if you are going to extend the length.

2. Get the Sensor Bounds app. It's free in the Oculus store. It is very helpful for optimizing your sensor alignment, whether or not you want to get the third sensor.

3. Try changing your controller grip. I think someone else pointed out too.

I'd try those things before messing with the battery compartment, which might work but might have unintended consequences.

[Lazarus {FATE}]

Originally posted by yoeyyutch:

1. Get a third sensor. Everything works better with a third sensor. Use a USB 2.0 repeater cable if you are going to extend the length.

2. Get the Sensor Bounds app. It's free in the Oculus store. It is very helpful for optimizing your sensor alignment, whether or not you want to get the third sensor.

3. Try changing your controller grip. I think someone else pointed out too.

I'd try those things before messing with the battery compartment, which might work but might have unintended consequences.

The 3rd sensor doesn't change fact that the battery moves and loses connection causing the controller to go dark and stop tracking, I tried 4 sensors and it didn't change anything either.
The only decent fix would come from oculus itself with an integrated battery pack that locks in place or thicker (stronger) springs.
The conductive foil and anything to keep the battery from moving, besides glue, of course won't harm anything. I had someone make me a few copper spacers and they work like a charm.


Nice heads up for sensor bounds though

[chreas]

Can confirm the OP. Used aluminum foil and my hands track a lot better now for my oculus. It feels like I don't have nearly as many performance drops either, potentially because my computer isn't trying to resync the controllers everytime I swing too hard.

[FreakoFreako]

Another fix is to put a bigger spring over the default one. I used Ace Hardware's #86 cone spring. Credit goes to ragesaq IIRC

My punches would track at 500 frequently due to the battery issue. But after getting the spring, I didn't get any false numbers/tracking

[Barney "630" Garrison]

Hey, that's a great idea! I didn't even think to just add a bigger spring. Thanks for the tip!

[CrOwen]

Thank you so much this fixed my issue immediately. I have played thrill of the fight recently and had ended up resetting my sensor setup. I thought I messed something up with the angles, but never suspected it was the batteries! I noticed while playing beat saber on expert I’d miss when I know I didn’t, or the hand would ‘stick’. Also happened a lot on Pavlov, which never happened to me before. I googled hands stuck oculus and this is the first thing that looked salient. Thank you again for this intuitive fix!!!

[Ian (Sealost)]

Originally posted by CrOwen:

Thank you so much this fixed my issue immediately. I have played thrill of the fight recently and had ended up resetting my sensor setup. I thought I messed something up with the angles, but never suspected it was the batteries! I noticed while playing beat saber on expert I’d miss when I know I didn’t, or the hand would ‘stick’. Also happened a lot on Pavlov, which never happened to me before. I googled hands stuck oculus and this is the first thing that looked salient. Thank you again for this intuitive fix!!!

Just to note, this battery issue can happen on the original Rift, the new Rift S, and the Quest. However right now the most recent Oculus software update is causing a new tracking problem on the original Rift (not the Rift S or the Quest). If you're using the original Rift, you might also notice some tracking problems with very fast hand movements. It's easy to trigger this new problem in TotF with fast hook punches. I'm hoping they have a fix out for it soon.