Opponent gets too close, punches through guard. Plus other bugs.

[unwaveringresolve]

Hello. I recently start playing this game for the exercise, and so far it's been great. But I'm having issues with opponents getting so close to me they apparently get the ability to punch through my guard.

Of the fighters I've faced so far, this has happened with Joe and Spider, but not with the Trainer or Duffy. (I can't speak for Duke or anyone who might follow him, I haven't faced them yet. )

With my hands up in front of me, they still punch through. With Spider, this works both ways - I found I was able to beat him by getting very close to him and then jabbing continuously at his head and abdomen simultaneously with either hand, even though he was covering his head.

(*comments on realism redacted*)

Also, I have experienced a glitch where I automatically go from a fight with some other enemy to the fight with Zombie Joe. This has happened with Headless Duffy and the Trainer.

[Diabolic]

Sometimes boxers are up in each others face and very little space is needed to throw a punch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ad3QHs4Cwc
Just found a random video to demonstrate, close range is not unrealistic at all, and I like the close range battles.

[unwaveringresolve]

Look carefully at how those people are positioned - leaning in like that, their heads are close together, but they're still almost an arm-lenth apart. They'll also lean away to throw straight punches. But the blokes in The Thrill of the Fight only ever stand straight up, and I don't do much leaning either. But let's leave off arguing about the realism.

That doesn't resolve my core issue - how somebody can literally punch *through* my gloves, or how I can punch through theirs.

[Diabolic]

I'm arguing realism since I prefer it in this case, and they don't get too close to me. Also they aren't aren't at arm lenght, some of they time they a very close to each other. They create the distance they need to throw other punches sometimes, but there are plenty punches from the inside. I'm not just arguing, I'm right. Preferably it should be different for each fighter though, with staying at range. I'm just voicing my opinion since I don't want it so they never get close.

If you can clip through their guard that's a real problem though.

[Ian (Sealost)]

Thanks for the feedback!

unwaveringresolve の投稿を引用：

But I'm having issues with opponents getting so close to me they apparently get the ability to punch through my guard.

Are you on the beta branch? The current live version of the game does have an issue were certain types of punches from certain boxers can brute force their way through the physics system and pile-drive between your gloves, but the current beta detects when that happens and counts the hit as blocked anyway.

unwaveringresolve の投稿を引用：

Also, I have experienced a glitch where I automatically go from a fight with some other enemy to the fight with Zombie Joe. This has happened with Headless Duffy and the Trainer.

This is happening because your glove happens to touch where the poster for Zombie Joe is during the loading screen transition. This is fixed in the beta branch of the game because the game more intelligently positions your play space so that it's no longer half-embedded into the wall in the gym.

[unwaveringresolve]

Nope, I'm not in the beta branch. Though from what you've told me, maybe I should be.

[Ian (Sealost)]

unwaveringresolve の投稿を引用：

Nope, I'm not in the beta branch. Though from what you've told me, maybe I should be.

Throughout this game's life so far, the beta branch has usually been the exact same version of the game as the live branch, as to me Early Access pretty much means beta already. But sometimes I need to trial an update or trickle some changes out over a longer period of time that individually aren't complete enough to replace what's on the live branch.

That's what's going on currently on the beta branch. The damage system has been revamped in a more realistic way and is a very large departure from the slightly arcade-y style of the current main branch of the game. By itself though, the damage update doesn't make much sense, as it's meant to work within a round system (yet to be added to the beta but should be there soon) like in real boxing. There is also a lot of playtesting and tweaking that needs to be done to make sure that players are actually finding the game fun and of achievable difficulty.

So be warned! It's a lot of in-progress work, but many people here on the forums already seem to like it much better than the main branch.

There are also already several quality of life improvements included with it, too, like what was mentioned in my previous post.

[Diabolic]

Sorry, I always wrongfully assume that people are playing the same version as me, so we'll have a different experience, but I guess some of my points still stand. If you hit opponents hard enough they will back off, or if you hurt them enough. if you have the space try to maneuver in a way that you keep some distance and keep them at bay with punches. Body shots need to hit solar plexus or liver to make them back up. I'm talking about the beta branch which I assume you are going to try.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I've toned down the difficulty and played kinda in slow motion, really trying to observe what the AI is doing and what is working.

I agree that opponents are a bit sticky. Sometimes it feels like there's a rope between us and whenever I back off it just pulls them forward. The movement doesn't really resemeble a human OODA loop, just if>then. I think it's good that the AI has started trying to predict player head movement, and I think a similar idea should come into play with moving and blocking. Simply put, an AI that makes mistakes.

As it is, the only way I've found to really catch the AI not guarding is for them to punch. Particularly in close, it's kind of ridiculous watching their arms magically teleport wherever my fists are going. No real way to feint or defeat the AI's blocks by playing a mixup game; hammering the left cheek to death seems to be as effective as anything else, if not superior.

Basically, clean hits tend to feel like luck for me. While this is fairly realistic, I'd ultimately like to see more of a psychological game in dismantling opponents. Just my 2c.

[Turbatus]

Cl_Flushentityhero の投稿を引用：

I've toned down the difficulty and played kinda in slow motion, really trying to observe what the AI is doing and what is working.

I agree that opponents are a bit sticky. Sometimes it feels like there's a rope between us and whenever I back off it just pulls them forward. The movement doesn't really resemeble a human OODA loop, just if>then. I think it's good that the AI has started trying to predict player head movement, and I think a similar idea should come into play with moving and blocking. Simply put, an AI that makes mistakes.

As it is, the only way I've found to really catch the AI not guarding is for them to punch. Particularly in close, it's kind of ridiculous watching their arms magically teleport wherever my fists are going. No real way to feint or defeat the AI's blocks by playing a mixup game; hammering the left cheek to death seems to be as effective as anything else, if not superior.

Basically, clean hits tend to feel like luck for me. While this is fairly realistic, I'd ultimately like to see more of a psychological game in dismantling opponents. Just my 2c.

Ok, I am actually on board for predicting where to block...

[unwaveringresolve]

I tried out the beta, and found that the enemy doesn't punch through my guard so much as they punch around it. Except for Spider - his crazy long limbs are still going through my guard.

I've also had a similar experience to Cl_Flushentityhero in play. It took me over 20 minutes to defeat the Trainer on Pro. When his guard was up he was impenetrable, and his guard was almost always up.

[Diabolic]

You're playing on pro, 20 min. isn't unreasonable in my opinion. I think the sparring partner is a bit more annoying, at least I felt the blocking was to fast and twitchy when I played him when testing out latest beta first. Yesterday I did a run through of all the other opponents and didn't find the blocking to bad.

[Ian (Sealost)]

unwaveringresolve の投稿を引用：

I tried out the beta, and found that the enemy doesn't punch through my guard so much as they punch around it. Except for Spider - his crazy long limbs are still going through my guard.

Does them punching around your guard cause frustration for you? In the beta, they're specifically coded to look for openings and hook around your guard. In the main version, they do it incidentally. In any case, any solid connection with your blocking hands or arms should make their fist no longer able to damage you, even if the physics system squeezes their fist through your block. Are you seeing different behavior than that?

unwaveringresolve の投稿を引用：

I've also had a similar experience to Cl_Flushentityhero in play. It took me over 20 minutes to defeat the Trainer on Pro. When his guard was up he was impenetrable, and his guard was almost always up.

Thanks for the feedback here. The guard speed is currently set very high to make sure KDs aren't trivially easy, but it will need to be adjusted. The next update will have a round system, so 3-round matches will take 11 minutes if there isn't a win by KO, and longer matches will go up by 4 minutes per extra round from there. The plan is to make win by KO achievable but not guaranteed, especially in bouts with less rounds. Right now we have the damage system for rounds, but not the hard stop on the fight time that rounds would bring.

[unwaveringresolve]

fyiandev の投稿を引用：

unwaveringresolve の投稿を引用：

I tried out the beta, and found that the enemy doesn't punch through my guard so much as they punch around it. Except for Spider - his crazy long limbs are still going through my guard.

Does them punching around your guard cause frustration for you? In the beta, they're specifically coded to look for openings and hook around your guard. In the main version, they do it incidentally. In any case, any solid connection with your blocking hands or arms should make their fist no longer able to damage you, even if the physics system squeezes their fist through your block. Are you seeing different behavior than that?

unwaveringresolve の投稿を引用：

I've also had a similar experience to Cl_Flushentityhero in play. It took me over 20 minutes to defeat the Trainer on Pro. When his guard was up he was impenetrable, and his guard was almost always up.

Thanks for the feedback here. The guard speed is currently set very high to make sure KDs aren't trivially easy, but it will need to be adjusted. The next update will have a round system, so 3-round matches will take 11 minutes if there isn't a win by KO, and longer matches will go up by 4 minutes per extra round from there. The plan is to make win by KO achievable but not guaranteed, especially in bouts with less rounds. Right now we have the damage system for rounds, but not the hard stop on the fight time that rounds would bring.

I don't mind them punching around my guard as such... but I can't do the same to them reliably, except with right-haymakers and hammer punches. For some reason, right haymakers and hammer punches go around any opponent's guard pretty reliably.

I don't have a health bar, but judging by the noise of impact I hear and my screen going fuzzy, I am taking damage. Then again, on reviewing video footage of some of my matches, I'm not sure where my hands actually are - maybe I'm not blocking as well as I thought? Once I figure out how OBS studio works, I'll put up some footage and you can judge for yourself.

Also, am I correct in my belief that gut punches do nothing in the beta branch? They seemed to have little effect in the main branch either, but now I don't even hear the smack of a hit anymore. Then again, some opponents seem to hit me with low punches fairly often...

[Ian (Sealost)]

unwaveringresolve の投稿を引用：

Also, am I correct in my belief that gut punches do nothing in the beta branch? They seemed to have little effect in the main branch either, but now I don't even hear the smack of a hit anymore. Then again, some opponents seem to hit me with low punches fairly often...

In the main version, gut punches do reduced damage (1/2, I think?) and can't drain the last of the HP bar to get the knockdown.

In the current version of the beta, gut punches increase the opponent's fatigue (as do any other punches), which currently only makes them easier to knock down. In the next beta update, higher fatigue will also make an opponent less likely to get up after a knockdown. In the future, I'm going to look into higher fatigue slowing the opponent down a bit, but we'll see how that affects difficulty and balance.

Gut punches cannot score a knockdown on their own, unless you hit the opponent in a weak spot like the solar plexus or liver.

The game's sounds are all getting reworked, and what's in the beta are early placeholder work-in-progress versions.