I think Thalya should level up through experience, not by paying for levels with currency

[Dragon]

I think the current system of having to pay currency resources to level up Thalya is bad.

She should level up through experience in battle, just like everyone else.

It's very ridiculous that my creatures always out-level Thalya until the very late- game, which is the first time when I can finally afford to invest the insane amount of resources necessary to push Thalya to level 10 or 11 --- even though she has way more battle experience than all of my creatures who out-level her, and therefore, by all reason, she should always be level 10 before any of them, not way after.

I'm not sure what the devs were thinking with this concept of paying to level up Thalya, but IMO it's an inherently bad idea and they should entirely scrap it in a new patch. The game would be a lot better balanced and fun that way.

[Thats How We do action in Uganda]

They not gonna change anything, but I agree Thalya should just lvl by experience, and there should be maybe like 3 level upgrades for her in tech tree.

[Dragon]

Originally posted by NooBest Player In The World:

They not gonna change anything

Why not though? On the title screen they say what would love to hear feedback so they can make the game better.

Why listen to feedback if they are never going to change the game based on that same feedback?

[Skybreaker]

Hi Dragon,
correct, we definitely want feedback and reading each and every feedback we are receiving.
But be also aware that we simply cannot make changes based on all of that feedback, as we cannot change the game at its core, which some feedback we have received so far, want us to do. This is impossible.
What will and can be changed we still have to see and therefore are happy to receive feedback of all kind.

-cheers

[Blake Walsh]

I'm not sure I agree with this or not.

I always completely ignore the Thalya upgrades because they are so bad value for evilness. For example the first level gives what, 200hp and 10 more damage an attack? Adding an Orc to your army is like +1600hp and +60 damage. I guess at some point when More Creatures is getting really expensive it might be worth that 50 evilness but by then 200hp and 10 damage is just irrelevant and the next levels are way more expensive and will massively delay getting a Titan, or a second Titan, or "Improved X", chances are very good that +5% hitpoint and +2% damage across the creatures of an entire faction will be better than whatever Thalya gets.

And then each Thalya upgrade increases her resurrection cost, I like to keep it at 100 so I can sacrifice her without compunction, she's a good blob of hitpoints and much cheaper to use in a throwaway role than any creature.
"Can we please stop letting Thayla die all the time?! It's not that hard to resurrect her but blow-drying her hair until it's just right sends the electricity bill through the roof!"
"Yeah, but I needed to trick the master gunners into deploying their cannons"

I'm not sure that making Thalya level normally is the solution. But I think there is something off about the cost/benefit ratio of the level upgrades, and also the expediated resurrection cost, that is it starts too cheap and gets too expensive.

[Dragon]

Originally posted by Blake Walsh:

I'm not sure that making Thalya level normally is the solution

Why not? What's the downside to it?

And in regards to the scenario you described, using Thalya as a gimpy throw-away unit like that is not what she's supposed to be. Rather, she's supposed to be the Absolute Evil's number #1 lieutenant and a very powerful warrior in his army. She's supposed to be a winner, not a loser.

Maybe Unerde can make a poll about this issue, and then let the majority of players decide via vote if they want Thalya to level through combat experience or through expending currency.

[Endrix]

I also think that the resources for Thalya are too high. It has to be more rewarding.

I would suggest either the maliciousness is reduced to 250 per level: 50, 100, 150, 200, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250 (instead of 50, 150, 250, 350, 450, 550, 650, 750, 850, 950)

or

Thalyas damage increases per level 10, 20, 20, 20, 20, 30, 30, 40, 50, 60
(instead of 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 20, 20, 30, 30, 50), total damage increases 300 instead of 200
and Thalyas health increases per level 200, 200, 300, 300, 400, 400, 500, 500, 600, 600
(instead of 200, 200, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 400, 400), total health increases 4000 instead of 3000

[black Harlekin]

I think Thalya is good as she is.
Sure the paper damage is not high but the AoE is big enough.
I could always see when her hits strikes in hero groups, even when a big Monster party was involved in the fight.

[Blake Walsh]

Thalya is pretty great at lvl1 doubly so if you find her a damage tome, but she doesn't really get better enough with investment to justify the cost of improving her.

Originally posted by Dragon:

Why not? What's the downside to it?

And in regards to the scenario you described, using Thalya as a gimpy throw-away unit like that is not what she's supposed to be. Rather, she's supposed to be the Absolute Evil's number #1 lieutenant and a very powerful warrior in his army. She's supposed to be a winner, not a loser.

I think of her more as an appendage of the Absolute Evil (lore-wise, since the shadow infested her). Unlike other creatures, she doesn't require any form of pay or support and she cannot complain. You could say she's just fanatically devoted to the AE, but really she's more like an appendage or extension. That's why it actually makes sense that the AE should have to devote some of its power (evilness) to making her stronger since Thayla is not an independent entity in the employ of the AE.

[Alias]

Originally posted by Unerde:

Hi Dragon,
correct, we definitely want feedback and reading each and every feedback we are receiving.
But be also aware that we simply cannot make changes based on all of that feedback, as we cannot change the game at its core, which some feedback we have received so far, want us to do. This is impossible.

Its very strange to hear from a developer that thay cant change anything to the core. Sure, i can understand some things are difficult to change. But rarely do you have a unit that is that hardcoded into a game that changes are going to be impossible. And i would generaly only expect that to be the case in games from before 2010.

But even if thats the case, there are potentialy a few things you could do that would not influence thalya in her basics:
What you could do is change the level requirement based on xp or time. The more xp she gains, the lower gold and evilness costs on her upgrades (and when it reaches 0 automaticly upgrade it).
Or you just lower the upgrade costs massively for the earlier levels. (rather than costing over 400 evilness to reach level 4, you could make it only cost 150 (lvl 1 and 2 being 25, level 3 and 4 being 50). And scale it a bit more steep for the later levels.
With that, you could move here shades into a research from the lecture hall and move some of the evilness costs to that research option. Its nice they unlock at level 4, but it wouldnt even be a problem if they unlock at level 7. They are more like a bonus unit just like the zombies and skeletons are.