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stealth was all the time the main theme of the game(still there is few some mission that fully based on gun blazing tho)
no difficulty settings(c) - rundown number can be used as diff settings(all tho it will be still about the player itself. some veterans who played this game frome the start will not feel any diff untill like R6-R7...its all about exp. one day you will feel the same)
no proper checkpoint system(c) - true. R4 is the moment when mission will become rly long if you dont have a full paty of ppl that know what to do. it was like that all the time. part of the game + you dont forced to do all obj at once if you dont want.
short but overintensive battle(c) kinda true. most of the time its all about *protecting right door* and this is it. all tho all battles(not gona tell about boss batles and some *special* situations work kinda the same. i guess its a part of exp that you will get during the play time)
no game director(c) - never was a part of the game. All tho you can still manipulate the way game will spawn enemyes. there is not so much you can do but still you have some options
gun stats(c) - totaly agree. You can understand what gun can do only by using it. Not the big of a deal for sure but still...if you care so much you can just solo spam A1 mission and try every single gun by yourself
all other parts(like C-FOAM training) is part of exp. System is not that deep to create and insane special training for it.
Terminals is alrdy so much easyer to use for new players as it was before since almost every mission telling you what to do.
uplink terminals missions tho(im feel like) is the first big problem that new players gona have. Kinda sure that there must be more information how to do it in tutorial.
same for the double uplink terminal.
but you can open a steam guides or google how to do it. will safe some time for you.
same for the maps layout. if you dont like to explore and wana know how the map look you can just google the missions.ppl was creating a full map layouts back in the days. im sure it still there.
you need to understand that back in the old days we have only one rundown per months so exploring and learning was a big part of the gameplay.
cuz how fast you gona finish all missions if the game will give you all what you need to know straigh forward.
if you care about a lore and dont wana look for it on every single terminal - there is a big lore video on youtuve as well.
anyway. rundowns will not go anywhere and you can just chill and learn the game with the time that you need.
just remember to use a discord for a groupe(if you dont have a mates to play alrdy for sure)
I see no real reason for GTFO to not use this gamedesign experience except for some fallacy reasons. We all know it's a game, not a reality, so just make several options, including the one for those who seek old beta challenges. Even modders already did this, like in this one, mod for two - https://gtfo.thunderstore.io/package/GregSlythe/Duo_Mode/
And yeah, if a high difficulty simply mystifies the shallow depth of the game, well, mb, difficulty setting would force devs to make the gamedesign deeper and better instead of relying on a big stick of heavy difficulty and overlong level walkthrough time?..
And yeah, I forgot one more thing: marking only doors and boxes, really? This is something a real artificial limitations to raise an artificial difficulty, while in other game it's not a problem, and - it just saves a bit of time, instead formulating directions in words. If devs are striving for some kind of realism, they should have simply disabled it. And terminal ping as well.
And why heat-vision does not see through the fog?..
And charge and release game mechanic for some weapons sucks, it also feels like an artificial difficulty. All artificial impediments get you to the arcade mood, not the realism.
And yes, about a silent weapon - how about a crossbow? With nailgun sticking ability? It would be a nice rundown progression tool, fitting the lore - you know that you're go8ng down into the place of sound affected monsters and still you get loud weapons. Also feels very artificial and somewhat arcade because you can see the bones of gamedesign. It doesnt feel immersive after all.
Hello! How are you doing?
I understand several things you're saying, and I've been in these forums several times "complaining" about things that for me don't make sense.
For me ... you all guys can disagree if you want to
But they're defended by the hardcore players who have been playing the game since day one. No matter what you say or prove, even if it's indefensible and you're 100% right, they will tell you that if the game is too difficult, it's not for you, or that it's not that difficult, and so on.
There are many things that don't make sense to me, and they will always defend them because they are fanatical about the game. I don't want to be repetitive, but for me, the game becomes ridiculously difficult at certain points. To name a few:
You can't stack resources. You find 3 boxes of ammo, and you had 2. You think great... now I have 5. NO. You will have 3 or 2. They don't stack. They defended this by telling me that Devos Dont want you to stack resources in one place and so that some players who may not take care of their ammo don't take it all.
Supposedly, it's a game that requires cooperation, so what's the problem with a player taking ALL the ammo??? No sense, just to give difficulty for the sake of it.
The fog suckers last unnecessarily little time. They give you at most 8 fog suckers for a level that is FULL of toxic fog (which keeps you at 15% life throughout the level) that takes at least 2/3 hours to finish. I don't know if you've played the D-Tier or E-Tier. No sense, just to give difficulty for the sake of it.
You start the level with 50% ammo at best?? Why?? Can't they be prepared?? No sense, just to give difficulty for the sake of it.
There are no explosive weapons for crowd control, why are there no grenades?? No sense, just to give difficulty for the sake of it.
You can be fighting against a horde of enemies, and there is no way to escape. Supposedly, they're blind and only respond to sound, right?? You can run to the other side of the map, and they will ALWAYS find you. It's like you have a GPS in your butt, and they know where you are all the time. They attack you with guided tongues, they attack you with guided light balls. Out of 10, you can dodge lucky 4. No sense, just to give difficulty for the sake of it.
It forces you to go stealth until you get to a door, and then everything explodes. So, what's the stealth for?? The game should give you the possibility to solve the security systems without always activating a horde. No sense, just to give difficulty for the sake of it.
The weapons really feel useless to me many times. I tried the new pistol they put in Rundown 4 yesterday, and it's useless. You spend 60 ammo (1 cartridge) to kill 2 enemies, the bullets don't do anything. It seems like you're shooting a Nerf gun. The weapons don't do the damage that a firearm should do. No sense, just to give difficulty for the sake of it.
And there are a lot more things... and rest assured that several will come here blindly defending the game without accepting that all these things could be improved and make an incredibly good game. This game, with some changes, could have been a masterpiece, but they made a game that only 10% of the people who buy it can win (perhaps less percentage).
I love the game, I've won a lot of levels. Some of them illegally because, as I said before, they become ridiculously difficult to play alone. The matchmaking doesn't work and I'm tired of joining Discord and asking if anyone's playing... In my case, the few who are playing already have their group and don't want a random player, or I can't find people at the times I have free.
- resources not refilling, what's the problem with guys to become the "ammo-guy", "tool-refill"-guy etc, fills strange
- stealth is just an overprolonged prelude to the obligatory alarm doors, too much attention to passive phase, while active is the bottleneck; alternative ways not included, fills strange for a kind of a stealth-based game
- bulletsponge guns, while you need effective weapon, I believe all these pistols should be auxillary weapons not the primary/secondary guns, fills strange
- too much enemy autoaim, fills strange
- for the enemies reacting on sound, you shouldn't be the main aim while the alarm sounds, but you're gps-tracked even after the alarm goes off, the passive phase logic should continue even in active phase, so that monster would require to search for not to know where are you, it feels strange
- resource management is too strict, the anti-fog things is an example
- you have mines but you have no grenades, fills strange
- no full ammo at the beginning for the space while you're sent to the chambers with little ammo refill possibilities, fills strange
- for the guys sent to the very dangerous place unequipped, I believe, all the slots should occupied, including packs and tools, from the very beginning, otherwise, feels strange
And by strange I mean artificial difficulty. Very artificial, very arcade, not immersive at all, with all this things game yells you in a face - I'm just a game! I think, it's not the effect devs to wanted to achieve.
The internet is a toxic place, nothing new.
People saying that anyone who defends the game and say that a lot of the issues you have are because the game isnt for you/due to lack of understanding/skill
aswell as
Those being labbeled as toxic tryhards/vets.
Its pretty simple. The game isnt perfect, theres points vets can agree on it being badly done/explained. But a lot of complaints are just whining to the target audience of the game. Its quite similar to people wanting a difficulty setting in dark souls. And before someone says "leveling or coop", you can get boosters and use checkpoints here :>
To just go over some of the basic complaints ive seen here:
stacking ressources. Its a plus minues, it ♥♥♥♥♥ with balancing of quicker missions and removes the THINKING part with ressource management. But yea it can be annoying, its something you wont really feel anyway outside of a few choosen levels.
Fog repellers lasting no time. Yeah nah they last 70 seconds, you get 3-4 per stack. The minimum you can find are 3 stacks in a zone for levels where you actually need them. And most levels that have them have upwards of 10 stacks. Way more than enough if you go cleanly and then some so you arent ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over if you do it the first time. But not too much so you can chuck em for free as someone with no knowledge.
starting with 50% ammo means you can gain more. It could also just be the same but 100%, would that change anything for you? Its a neat way to balance some guns aswell that start out with less/more and get less/more per ammo pack usage. The immersion part for this aside shouldnt even be that unimaginable.
Theres no explosive stuff cuz that would make stuff silly easy, mines are already giga broken when used well. Now imagine that but you can use them anywhere. Yeah nah, thats just "easy mode"
Them finding you anywhere at all times. I mean thats sadly just gameplay. If you could avoid them and they lose you that would make kiting incredibly broken and the game again.,.. super easy. You would simply run around until they lose interest/lose you generally and then come back when they arent on your tail. Also you can reliably dodge every attack in the game if you know how to. But they obviously arent supposed to be just randomly avoided
i can see the stealth part. But the action is what makes this game fun for a lot of people, if you could avoid it completely that would also drag out stuff A LOT. Anyway, i can see the argument here for what the game SEEMS like when you are new.
Weapons not doing anything. Yeah this is a 100% SKILL ISSUE. The new hel auto pistol is a weapon to stopp things from killing you and your team while not being too good at killing. its a support gun. Theres a lot of guns that can completely destroy whole waves of enemies, but obviously this depends on knowledge of the guns and actual gun skill
Ressource management being strickt. It just feels that way for new guys. Theres actually more ammo than you need to fully shoot and kill every enemy on most maps. (there is some exceptions).
checkpoints being rare/too far apart. They werent even a thing for the first 5 rundowns and while they can be helpful at times, are rly not something that feels good to play with, i can tell this as someone that played with them while still pretty bad
Theres definetly lots to improve, but a lot of these points just arent something the game needs for its target audience. If you wanna make the point that the game could be more successful your way, then yes. maybe? But then it wouldnt be the game that the community likes, but a more casual one.
Hello, how are you?
Do you realize that none of the points we mentioned are a problem for you? You defended all the items or things we mentioned. According to my understanding of your response, you wouldn't change anything at all.
This is what we always receive on this forum when we comment on something - everything we say is wrong, and the game, including these kinds of inconsistencies, is fine since it's what the target audience expects from the game.
That's fine. I am the one who is wrong. No problem.
This is my point of view, obviously you may not agree and I don't want you to change your way of seeing the game at any point. But for me, one thing is to like the game as it is, and another thing is to not see the intentional design flaws that make it difficult just for the sake of it, and which are applauded as if they were features.
I do like the game, it's super fun and has an atmosphere and design that no other game has. But for me, it's wrong to increase the difficulty of a game with these kinds of situations, such as making it harder because you can't stack resources, or because you don't have a weapon for crowd control, or because you can't start with equipment at 100%, or because the fog repelers only works for 70 seconds and cannot be pick it up to use it again ?? why ?? because (say it with me) because is more dificult like this without any sense jajaja.
Since you mentioned Dark Souls, the game is difficult, but it doesn't limit you in the same way that this games does. You can get to a point where you have equipment that is stronger than even the toughest bosses. Nonetheless, the game remains challenging, but not due to arbitrary limitations like this. I dont want super powers i only want to be correctly equiped for the mission. And Still can be super hard to achieve.
Sometimes people just have bad takes, straight up, and Steam Forums users seem particularly good at missing over and over again. It is the even the case that veteran players have criticisms that you've probably never heard because nobody on the Steam Forums has the requisite wisdom to actually come up with good critiques. Most of what's posted here tends to just misunderstand what the game is about, sometimes quite fundamentally.
GTFO wouldn't really be GTFO if it let you just out-stat the content. I wouldn't mind it as a pseudo-difficulty option, but that's not the core of the game. At the end of the day, you just have to be able to make use of your arsenal properly.
If you don't bring wave clear for a horde shooter, you may not be all there, ngl. If you unironically bring 4 Snipers and expect to do just fine, you just deserve to lose.
When I said weapon for crowd control I Mean a grenade or something to blow up monsters.. Not bring to R2D1 4 snipers.
The arsenal we already have balanced around the combat as it exists seems to work pretty well, it seems weird to go out of your way to break that balance because you'd rather play something like DRG or Borderlands.
Also, we literally have tripmines, and they seem like a pretty good high explosive option for GTFO, I don't know what else you want.