8 years for a real dlc.

[Monarchco]

Frontier just isn't accomplishing a whole lot these days. I can't say I've been happy with a single product, or especially sequel they've launched over the past decade.

And if this is the same engine used for planet zoo and planet coaster, I fully expect performance to be abysmal if you even fill up 1/4th of a park.

Planet Coaster came out when the 1080 launched. And yet the game still runs like garbage on my 4090 and i9 13900k. A system that is over 10x as powerful as the top system in 2016. And it shows too, as Planet Coaster runs like garbage while my GPU and CPU have less than 15% load, because the engine is incapable of using the available system resources.

[SLG]

You do understand that they stated that development on one was done a while ago? It basically when they started to port to consoles.

Right now Planet Zoo maybe be headed in that direction. They have started porting it to consoles and one more PC DLC has been confirmed.

[Monarchco]

Originally posted by Lee:

You do understand that they stated that development on one was done a while ago? It basically when they started to port to console.

I mean it doesn't really matter when it stopped.

Because planet zoo, and both jurassic world games have the same performance issues as planet coaster. Everything they've made just feels half-baked. Like the formula 1 games, that one Warhammer 40k game they made that flopped hard - its all unfinished with major issues that they rapidly drop support for, and at least with formula 1 quickly release the next game that might as well just be a paid bugfix patch.

[Straw Man]

The first thing I thought when I saw the announcement was that it read an awful lot like an old-fashioned real expansion pack, with all the talk about "new themes" and "new rides".

Then again, Frontier games usually cost as much as an EA expansion pack.

But seriously, code a theme park simulation that perfectly scales with a 24-core productivity CPU, and tell us how you did it.

[Monarchco]

Originally posted by Straw Man:

The first thing I thought when I saw the announcement was that it read an awful lot like an old-fashioned real expansion pack, with all the talk about "new themes" and "new rides".

Then again, Frontier games usually cost as much as an EA expansion pack.

I mean 90% of the video was literally just advertising water rides. AKA, the Soaked DLC for the original RCT3.

As for performance, even little parkitect affords significantly larger parks with MANY more rides before performance drops. Maybe its because parkitect is doing a lot less physics work, but the question is why is that physics work dragging down all the frontier games I just listed there in the first place?

RCT3 has always allowed massive parks filled to the brim with dozens of rides. If I hit even 10 coasters in planet coaster the game is at a crawl.
It's probably why jurassic world maps are so tiny with so little freedom to actually do anything, because if they were any bigger the game just wouldnt work.

[snarkyalyx]

We literally got Water Parks, way better graphics, multiplayer, better AI, an improved roller coaster designer, better path builder, plazas, and a complete engine overhaul. What do you mean "DLC"? Do you not get how game development works?

They wanted to add Water Parks to Planet Coaster 1, but back in 2019, they said it wasn't possible with the engine they were using. So, they started working on Planet Coaster 2. What's the problem? What were you expecting?

Here's why a new game makes sense:

• New Concept: Waterparks are a huge addition. A completely new core element of the game.
  
• Engine Overhauls: Better performance and updated graphics and AI.
  
• Enhanced Customizability: More options to tweak and personalize your park, like scalable assets, which is a nightmare to implement on a technical side when you have an existing game that can't do that.
  
• First-Person Exploration: Walk around and experience parks from a visitor’s view.
  
• Multiplayer/Co-op: Unconfirmed details, but that you can do any multiplayer at all - even asynchronous - in such a simulationally complex game is exciting, and this shows that they're likely still working on more multiplayer functionality.
  
• Improved Building Tools: Easier and smoother ways to design paths and coasters.
  
• Dynamic Weather and Stable Performance: Runs smoothly at 60FPS on consoles, even in pre-alpha.
  
• Expanded Themes: A LOT of new assets with the 4 new themes, alongside the original.
  
• Safety Features: Lifeguards, sunscreen, and shade to keep guests safe in the waterparks. They didn't "just add waterparks", but also a lot of depth that make it a whole-ahh feature you have to learn, understand, and explore.
  
• Per-Guest Heatmaps: Extremely fine-grained guest opinions that help you make your park literally perfect, which is also like, huge.
  
• Customizable Rides: More options to personalize flat rides and coaster cars.
  
• Popular Features Carry Over: Expect features like Power and Water Treatment from Planet Zoo.

Calling it a "♥♥♥♥♥♥ DLC" just shows you don’t understand the scope of what's new. This isn’t a minor update; it’s a big step up from the first game. What do you expect a "new game" to be? We even got *Drop Tracks* and probably Switch Tracks. That is huge. There is a *lot* that goes into game development!

[Straw Man]

Because literally everything from the Soaked expansion pack is now being sold as a standalone game.

And the game is now a slideshow after building a couple coasters.

And they're now in the business of renting out DLC.

And the game will literally self-destruct if something happens to the naughty D word that only punishes honest paying customers.

Clearly consumer value is being eroded pretty substantially here.

I realize Frontier has an utter monopoly on theme park sims, and we literally have no option but to lap up whatever they throw into our troughs at the moment, but the guy has a pretty obvious point here.

[Captain Flappy]

Originally posted by Monarchco:

Frontier just isn't accomplishing a whole lot these days. I can't say I've been happy with a single product, or especially sequel they've launched over the past decade.

And if this is the same engine used for planet zoo and planet coaster, I fully expect performance to be abysmal if you even fill up 1/4th of a park.

Planet Coaster came out when the 1080 launched. And yet the game still runs like garbage on my 4090 and i9 13900k. A system that is over 10x as powerful as the top system in 2016. And it shows too, as Planet Coaster runs like garbage while my GPU and CPU have less than 15% load, because the engine is incapable of using the available system resources.

some gamers are never happy unless moaning...

[Monarchco]

Originally posted by Captain Flappy:

Originally posted by Monarchco:

Frontier just isn't accomplishing a whole lot these days. I can't say I've been happy with a single product, or especially sequel they've launched over the past decade.

And if this is the same engine used for planet zoo and planet coaster, I fully expect performance to be abysmal if you even fill up 1/4th of a park.

Planet Coaster came out when the 1080 launched. And yet the game still runs like garbage on my 4090 and i9 13900k. A system that is over 10x as powerful as the top system in 2016. And it shows too, as Planet Coaster runs like garbage while my GPU and CPU have less than 15% load, because the engine is incapable of using the available system resources.

some gamers are never happy unless moaning...

"Some gamers are never happy with a game that still performs like garbage on top of the line hardware four generations newer than when the game came out"

Yup. You're definitely spot on there. Wait that wasn't actually your argument, you were trying to belittle me and insult me for not bowing down to your favorite corporation. Huh, what a strange fellow.

[War Wolf]

The Cobra engine for Planet Coaster uses DirectX 11, which can only use one CPU thread for DirectDraw calls. This is a limitation of DirectX 11. This slows down the game enormously when you've built alot in-game or have lots of guests.


From what I remember reading it would have required changes to the base code of Planet Coaster to get that version of Cobra to work with DX12.

This is one of the reasons water park stuff never came to Planet Coaster, the Cobra engine simple couldn't handle the load using DX11. Its also why all that expensive PC hardware is not going to make to much of a difference at the moment with Planet Coaster 1, The game is bottle necking with Dx11, and trying to brute force your way through an engine limitation doesn't tend to work well.

I Think there was an update to Planet Zoo for Dx12 support, though I'm not super sure.
And as far as Planet Coaster 2 go's, we know next to nothing so far.

[Monarchco]

Originally posted by War Wolf:

The Cobra engine for Planet Coaster uses DirectX 11, which can only use one CPU thread for DirectDraw calls. This is a limitation of DirectX 11.

There are threads going back to at least 2009 talking about how it can support multithreading, and spread render commands across available threads.

[KickAir8P]

Originally posted by Monarchco:

Originally posted by War Wolf:

The Cobra engine for Planet Coaster uses DirectX 11, which can only use one CPU thread for DirectDraw calls. This is a limitation of DirectX 11.

There are threads going back to at least 2009 talking about how it can support multithreading, and spread render commands across available threads.

What game are you talking about? Because this one was released in 2016.

[Monarchco]

Originally posted by KickAir8P:

Originally posted by Monarchco:

There are threads going back to at least 2009 talking about how it can support multithreading, and spread render commands across available threads.

What game are you talking about? Because this one was released in 2016.

I'm talking about dx11. As in, the same thing you were talking about.

dx11 is definitely capable of multithreading. idk where this lie came from that dx11 can't handle multithreading and only dx12 can.

[War Wolf]

Originally posted by Monarchco:

Originally posted by War Wolf:

The Cobra engine for Planet Coaster uses DirectX 11, which can only use one CPU thread for DirectDraw calls. This is a limitation of DirectX 11.

There are threads going back to at least 2009 talking about how it can support multithreading, and spread render commands across available threads.

The DX11 limitation, as Planet Coaster in concerned, doesn't mean there is no multitheading, it means that in DX11 most everything is running through one core ( the primary thread ) while the secondary cores handle other tasks. While this is multithreading, the primary thread takes the bulk of processes and tends to bottleneck ( primary thread will be near or at 100% while secondary cores are not ).

As far as I understand, because of this issue, this particular threading style was removed from DX12, If you want better performance on Planet Coaster you would need a CPU with the highest single thread performance with as low a latency DRAM you can find.

[Monarchco]

Originally posted by War Wolf:

Originally posted by Monarchco:

There are threads going back to at least 2009 talking about how it can support multithreading, and spread render commands across available threads.

The DX11 limitation, as Planet Coaster in concerned, doesn't mean there is no multitheading, it means that in DX11 most everything is running through one core ( the primary thread ) while the secondary cores handle other tasks. While this is multithreading, the primary thread takes the bulk of processes and tends to bottleneck ( primary thread will be near or at 100% while secondary cores are not ).

As far as I understand, because of this issue, this particular threading style was removed from DX12, If you want better performance on Planet Coaster you would need a CPU with the highest single thread performance with as low a latency DRAM you can find.

I mean that's basically my setup.
I have probably the highest performance possible on Planet Coaster, because I built this system specifically for no-expense-spared single thread performance, as I built it for VR DCS gameplay before DCS launched multi-threading.

The 14900k would probably be the only improvement. At least at the time the 13900k outperformed even the AMD X3D chips in single thread game performance.

Either way the maps clearly can't be filled and expect any kind of decent performance, even 8 years after launch. And I can't say I've been impressed with a single product Frontier has put out since 2016. Even Elite Dangerous. I left the game when they were barely adding content year after year, and then added engineering which is/was a worse grind than even most f2p games I've played.