Management side is far too easy.

[Captain Flappy]

I was hoping something would change between Beta and release but as it stands the game is far too easy.

As other have said, it is very similar to cities skylines in that once you have started it is very hard to fail.
It is a problem witrh most of these kinds of games but i was hoping PC wouldn't suffer the same.

Still an amaziong game overall and it nails the atmosphere of theme parks down to a T... but if it had an amazing management side as well it would be a much better game to play,
I play for the challenge, not the creativity.

[Captain Flappy]

rene の投稿を引用：

Jakaya の投稿を引用：

my question is how would you improve it all buissness as they expand build more capital and inherantly become more stable and more profitable again and the cycle goes on and on and on welcome to capatilism enjoy your stay

yes, if you do things right this is correct. But you could overinvest (risky investments) that dont pay out, or you could have scenarios where you have to start with a big loan. Or you could simply not make the profit margin so big...
In a capitalist society a lot of buisness go's bankrupt and fail...

Exactly, there are many ways they could have made it more challenging.

[Jakaya]

rene の投稿を引用：

yes, if you do things right this is correct. But you could overinvest (risky investments) that dont pay out, or you could have scenarios where you have to start with a big loan. Or you could simply not make the profit margin so big...
In a capitalist society a lot of buisness go's bankrupt and fail...

Usally to unexpected circumstances such as huge depression in economy new better park opening so all this would be RNG not very fun. as for over investing possible early game but as loans are repayable at a rate you choose not going to happen. campaign mode has some additional challenges i belive

[Captain Flappy]

Jakaya の投稿を引用：

rene の投稿を引用：

yes, if you do things right this is correct. But you could overinvest (risky investments) that dont pay out, or you could have scenarios where you have to start with a big loan. Or you could simply not make the profit margin so big...
In a capitalist society a lot of buisness go's bankrupt and fail...

Usally to unexpected circumstances such as huge depression in economy new better park opening so all this would be RNG not very fun. as for over investing possible early game but as loans are repayable at a rate you choose not going to happen. campaign mode has some additional challenges i belive

it has optional challenges... none of which affect the management

[Dante80]

My thoughts on the management simulation side:

1. Most of the financial and management features were brought into alpha 3 and beta (some were around from the start, but obfuscated). This, accompanied with the extensive creative options the game gives led many people to think that the game was very shallow on that side.

2. The simulation in the game is very deep as far as your parkmaking affects the guests and your overall profitability of your park. It is also heavily visualized though. Frontier decided to bake into the guest brain some of those effects as animations, and instead of throwing speech bubbles around the game lets you simply zoom in and see how the guests are doing and feeling in real time, thus identifying potential problems with your park. All guests are complete agents, nothing is abstracted. This leads to some interesting conundrums as far as park congestion, staff allocation/patrols, placement of scenery as a profitability boosts for multiple earning spots etc are concerned.
At the same time, this means less spreadsheets and numbers to directly view and crunch. This may give to some the impression of shallower management gameplay.

3. The current management simulation needs some QoL tweaks for micromanagement, as well as some balancing passes. Both affect how players view the overall simulation.

4. The game is poised to come out with 12 campaign scenarios (some of them pretty hard), and three challenge mode difficulties on 5 different map types. To boost management gameplay Frontier has to release more scenarios after launch, and also give us the opportunity to make our own scenarios and maps, and share them via the workshop. This will add a lot to the games' longevity imo. The good thing is that they seem to be listening to what the community wants, so I hope that bring those features in, sooner rather than later.

5. In the end, this is a theme park game. The RCT games were never dwarf fortress or prison architect or Capitalism II or Harpoon Classic etc etc, those games always tended to depend on the creative aspects of making your park, as opposed to normalizing imagination through heavy-handed and repeatable management design tenets. I do think that Frontier has a lot more that they can do to make the game a true CMS, but I also think they are on a good path already.

[Steve]

Agreed, I've only played the game a short time but I was very disappointed in how easy/lacklustre/dumbed down the management part is.

[Polylog]

It is really easy. I would very much prefer time constraints because I believe this is the only way to make it challenging throughout the game. You could make everything harder management wise, but if it is very hard to make a profit, then you stagnate a lot and this is not fun.

Now, many people don't like time limits, so ok maybe they don't want that either. They could still have objectives for gold like "get 6000 guests for over one year", "build 3 different coasters with length > 700m and excitement >7 or 8" etc. This way you would at least be stuck with one park for a long time and this gives you an incentive to make the park nice. As it is you can finish many levels in 1h by just plopping down tons of stuff. The park will look like crap (at least my pirate parks do), but who cares? At this point you have won.

[City Builder]

Monkeyboysteve の投稿を引用：

Jakaya の投稿を引用：

my question is how would you improve it all buissness as they expand build more capital and inherantly become more stable and more profitable again and the cycle goes on and on and on welcome to capatilism enjoy your stay

More extreme ride breakdowns
disasters such as food poisoning or ride accidents
people leaving the park due to both,
Weather affecting profits

There are many other ways as well...

Satisfied?

Little Johnny was decapitated on your new ride, you go to court and a judgement is placed on your negligence for $4,000,000 but you only have $1,000,000 so you take out a loan for the balance and put your park up as collateral, but default on the loan - game over. LOL

There are many ways they could balance out the game so that you don't just keep amassing money hand over fist, but then the game wouldn't appeal to as many people I think

[Captain Flappy]

City Builder の投稿を引用：

Monkeyboysteve の投稿を引用：

More extreme ride breakdowns
disasters such as food poisoning or ride accidents
people leaving the park due to both,
Weather affecting profits

There are many other ways as well...

Satisfied?

Little Johnny was decapitated on your new ride, you go to court and a judgement is placed on your negligence for $4,000,000 but you only have $1,000,000 so you take out a loan for the balance and put your park up as collateral, but default on the loan - game over. LOL

There are many ways they could balance out the game so that you don't just keep amassing money hand over fist, but then the game wouldn't appeal to as many people I think

Then sandbox would be perfect for them... challenge mode should be challenging.

[waifu]

Monkeyboysteve の投稿を引用：

Final_B の投稿を引用：

In hard difficulty? You didn't specify.

It's still the same game on hard for the most part...

Someone else said it better than me, but the following would be a good start in making the management side a better system.

-Time constraints on scenarios. 2 years to complete a goal that actually takes over a year and a half to complete.

-Time minimums on scenarios. You don't "win" until a few years have passed.

-Slower guest generation. A carousel and a teacups ride will not draw 800 people.


-Higher costs of development

-Higher training costs

-More purpose to training

-More divisive guest preferences

-More impact from marketing on park demographics

-Harsher degradation on more complex rides

-More failure states in general. Too many breakdowns in too short of time = ride refurbishment required instead of optional.

-Guests should be wary of rides that break down too much instead of not caring at all. "I'm not going on Wooden Coaster...it looks too rickety."

-Breakdowns should have true failures instead of "broken down". Ride restraints stuck forcing guests to stay on and upsetting them, breaks broken forcing crashes and destroying the ride's appeal...

Agree 1000% with this.

Sadly, just refunded the game for the reasons everyone has already described in this thread. Park management is simply not challenging enough to engage me long term in its current state. Maybe a year from now if they've patched in proper management I'll give it another shot.

I wish the reviews had indicated this, instead of just succumbing to the hype.

[Nailfoot]

onasi102 の投稿を引用：

...

I wish the reviews had indicated this, instead of just succumbing to the hype.

Some of the reviews do (Mine does, although I am not verbose). It seems, most people looking to scratch this itch are not overly concerned with detailed management. I would prefer more options along these lines (maybe even moreso than additional rides) but there is enough to entertain me.

Now, I just have to find the time to play. Can I leave a review for THAT?

[waifu]

Nailfoot の投稿を引用：

It seems, most people looking to scratch this itch are not overly concerned with detailed management.

I wonder if we will see more reviews focusing on the complete lack of management challenge in the future. The game's been officially out for less than a day.

My hunch is that people will get over this initial "honeymoon" period with sandboxing, and get salty that there's no real challenge in park management later on.

[Nailfoot]

onasi102 の投稿を引用：

Nailfoot の投稿を引用：

It seems, most people looking to scratch this itch are not overly concerned with detailed management.

I wonder if we will see more reviews focusing on the complete lack of management challenge in the future. The game's been officially out for less than a day.

My hunch is that people will get over this initial "honeymoon" period with sandboxing, and get salty that there's no real challenge in park management later on.

The challenge lies in creation, not managing. Many, many games have been mega succesful following this pattern (Minecraft etc).

We will just have to wait and see if the masses decide the PC is another game that doesn't need management to go along with its creation.

[Moccasin Bill]

Planet Coaster for creativity, Parkitect for management. RCTW if you're a glutton for punishment.

There's more than one game out you know.

[Nailfoot]

twitch.tv/kabbyk の投稿を引用：

Planet Coaster for creativity, Parkitect for management. RCTW if you're a glutton for punishment.

There's more than one game out you know.

Isn't Parkitect like 200 years from release though?

[waifu]

twitch.tv/kabbyk の投稿を引用：

Planet Coaster for creativity, Parkitect for management. RCTW if you're a glutton for punishment.

There's more than one game out you know.

But they advertised this game for the management aspect, too. Look at the store page, it even says "the deepest park simulation in gaming history." False advertising.