PSA: AVOID FERRIS WHEELS Radius and Star Wheel! Pathing Busted.

[ImHelping]

Unless you have them built for scenery purposes, or try to build them edgewise to mitigate (but not remove) the pathing issues, avoid the Radius and Star Wheel.

The tiny Ferris wheel styled rides like the Kick-Flip and Whirlyrig are functionally safe though.

So I've been avoiding using the Kick-Flip because while it looks like a cool thrill ride, it's still basically a fancy Ferris wheel, so clearly there would be a lot of stop and go.

Well, turns out I didn't have anything to worry about. Customers will just teleport themselves in and out of it, and will do this on all Ferris wheel styled rides. So the tiny ones like the Kick-Flip and Whirlyrig work great!

I wish I had known this earlier. It's quite a surprise after encountering flat rides that will instead block off passenger pathing and make them walk a loop around the entire ride to sit by the entrance gate.

Then, thinking about that... I decided to check for horrible side effects.

*Some obsessive flat rides testing later*

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=806607022

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=806607180

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=806607524

Well... I guess I'll be avoiding the Radius in particular unless I just want it for scenery... A single sequence is 606 seconds... Which combined with the insane pathing, means you need to set a damn long max wait + max load to prevent people from waiting in the queue for TEN MINUTES straight, because there is no letting on and off a few people at a time like an actual Ferris wheel.

At least the Star Wheel only lasts 228 seconds... But they both have ****ed up pathfinding despite the teleportation.

Half the customers coming and going will head for the front, half of them will head to the back. With the bonus of them walking only on the outer most edge, rather than cut under the struts.

This is quite a notable bug,. But if I want people frequenting the steam forums because they bought it on steam (Or those like me who pre-ordered from the Frontier shop, but mostly read the steam stuff)... I have to post it here in general discussions and hope for the best on visibility.

I never did much care for "We won't set up a bugs sub forum on Steam! Please follow this link off site to the not very visible to our official forums instead!" policy some companies have.

While it's good to ALSO post more official bug reps (I'll deal with that tomorrow, I already got other flat ride bugs listed there) All not setting up a bugs subforum on Steam does is make bugs less visible to the public-oh...

oh...

[A Fat, Angry Serval]

Have you tried swapping the entrance and exit sides? The pathing on the ferris wheels could be directional.

Also, not having a bug reporting forum on Steam doesn't do that good of a job of hiding bugs - people still post about bugs in the main forum, and if anything it actually makes things worse because some people then complain about people posting bug reports in the wrong place. In other words, it makes the bugs more visible AND makes the devs look like they don't care about their product and are just making a cash grab.

[mirta000]

tick off max and min wait and just set it on full load. My people seem to be fine with standing 30 min in queue and its actually maknig a profit :D

[NerVusTwiTch]

I dont have any problems with mine.
Infact the Star Wheel or Chair swing rides are my 2nd biggest profit rides next to my coasters.

But I have my exits opposite of my entry and I have full load selected.

[Unrealtairo]

full load works wonders, unless im running tracks/coasters, i remove the timers on just about everything with FL on. Tracks/coasters still get put on FL just with a max timer, otherwise when i first start them the dang 2-3-4-5th cart gets stuck with my guests in it waiting too long, and i need those guests out spending money on harder mode!

[Voice From Beyond]

So instead of rotating the ride, you declare the pathing is busted.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by VestedGamr:

Have you tried swapping the entrance and exit sides? The pathing on the ferris wheels could be directional.

Also, not having a bug reporting forum on Steam doesn't do that good of a job of hiding bugs - people still post about bugs in the main forum, and if anything it actually makes things worse because some people then complain about people posting bug reports in the wrong place. In other words, it makes the bugs more visible AND makes the devs look like they don't care about their product and are just making a cash grab.

Originally posted by Voice From Beyond:

So instead of rotating the ride, you declare the path is busted.

Originally posted by VestedGamr:

Have you tried swapping the entrance and exit sides? The pathing on the ferris wheels could be directional.

Regardless of where you put the exits, half your customers will head through one end and half the customers will head out the other (Despite being willing to cheat by teleporting).

Moving the entrance and exits around to the narrow edges of the ride can mitigate the effects of this, but it still remains. A work around to a problem, still means there is a problem.

SWAPPING the exits like the "try swapping them?" has the exact same result as the screenshots. Because HALF the customers will head for the back, and then half of them will head to the front side with the control booth.

No matter where you put the gates, that split flow will happen. So the "best" you can do is put your gates edge wise so customers always half to walk 1/4 the length of the ride as they split off. Rather than "Half of them will board or leave instantly, half of them will walk a loop around the entire thing, lol"

The Devs keep bragging about how great their customer pathfinding is. So having them instead go out of their way to avoid closer openings in favor of walking all the way around a ride (And then just teleport 200 feet up into the air anyway) is that much more disappointing.

"LOL just rotate the ride!" is something you should not have to do.

See also, the Roctopus whic has simmilar problems I've put a bug rep for. And unless the staff were just making empty placating statements, was a notable find according to their response.

So either yes, this kind of flat rides pathing problem really is a bug, not a "feature" or "LOL just move your entire ride to compensate!". Or, The Bug Reports forum has staff just replying for show.

Originally posted by CCA Unrealtairo:

full load works wonders, unless im running tracks/coasters, i remove the timers on just about everything with FL on. Tracks/coasters still get put on FL just with a max timer, otherwise when i first start them the dang 2-3-4-5th cart gets stuck with my guests in it waiting too long, and i need those guests out spending money on harder mode!

Max load and long wait times still do not change the fact that the way this is designed, your customers are still waiting TEN MINUTES IN LINE.

So even if you are ensuring you get a max load on your radius every stop and go... There is nothing you can do to change the fact customers are trapped in the queue for a ridiculous amount of time.

Because it does not load and unload customers like an actual ferris wheel. It bulk loads and unloads everything possible, it's basically just LOOKS like a Ferris wheel.

Even if you can force it to work, even if I want to make money, I'd just hate to think about making customers wait 10 minutes MINIMUM, to enter a freaking ferris wheel.

Originally posted by NerVusTwiTch:

I dont have any problems with mine.
Infact the Star Wheel or Chair swing rides are my 2nd biggest profit rides next to my coasters.

But I have my exits opposite of my entry and I have full load selected.

The Star Wheel is a lesser issue. It only has about 200 seconds of run time, so customers are only waiting a bit over three minutes, for a 3 minute ride. It's also smaller so it loads and unloads faster. Even if the pathing is still stupid and should be better quality.

The Radius though. Ten minutes minimum for a single ride cycle. With no stopping until that full 10 minutes. Because the ferris wheel doesn't work like a ferris wheel. It only bulk loads/unloads all seats at once.

Chair Swing Praise EDIT: The Chair swing is GREAT though. Customers path wonderfully through the chair swing, they walk between all the chairs and everything. It's the kind of stuff that shows the Devs can make amazing rides pathing if they try.

It's not like there is a majority of rides with these problems, but there do seem to be some standouts I am progressivly running across that did not get nearly as much QA as wonderfully built rides like the Chair Swing.

Originally posted by mirta000:

tick off max and min wait and just set it on full load. My people seem to be fine with standing 30 min in queue and its actually maknig a profit :D

I am amazed to hear it's apparently somehow people's most profitable flat ride in their parks despite that, though (Peoplestill just HATE waiting in line when I even stopped to 100% decorate some of mine in normal usage).

I'm trying to wrap my head around the logistics (and pricing) it would take for 20 minutes plus boarding and entry times (10 minimum wait, 10 for the ride) to be your best moneymakers. That's as long as about 12 other flat rides wait+duration with their average of 90-100 seconds per ride.

Are people really willing to pay sixt to twelve times as much to go on the Radius, as they are willing to pay for some of thr 40-60+ seat thrill rides?

(I expect it can make a "profit since built" easily, it's running costs are likely very low, it costs less to buy than many options, and it does have a lot of seats if you full load it. While rides that make money more smoothly cost more, so will need more time to pay themselves off according to their stats screen, even if they are raking in more money per second.)


Finally... I just wish the Ferris wheels worked like, you know. Ferris wheels. Loading and unloading cars as they arrive at the station.

Not this bizzare showcase of dozens of people walking to the bottom of the ride, and then teleporting into their seats (and then teleporting from 200 feet up to leave).

(I admit, that bizzare shortcut is a large benefit to the kick-flip thrill ride. But then people are smart about pathing with that one...)

[Simpleton]

the reason why they have passangers load from both sides on the star wheel is becasue the real swinging wheels (Disney's California Adventures) have the swinging and the non-swinging load from opposite sides. as for normal ones im not sure. may be using the same coding as the star wheel?

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by SimpleTheNoob:

the reason why they have passangers load from both sides on the star wheel is becasue the real swinging wheels (Disney's California Adventures) have the swinging and the non-swinging load from opposite sides. as for normal ones im not sure. may be using the same coding as the star wheel?

That's a good bit of info about how the Swinging wheels are supposed to work in real life. But, well, that would help more if these things worked in any way resembling real life.

All the doors on the cars in game are identical whether they slide or not on the Star Fall in game anyways (same with the Radius). Doors on BOTH sides of the car. Which further removes the comparison of why the real life version splits which half people come in or out..

Plus I really doubt Disney california makes them walk only along the farthest outer edges of the ride area to get there. They likely have proper entrances and exits for both sides.

That and I doubt they refuse to let anyone onto the ride before they let every single person off until it's empty (Then again, Disney also lacks the ability to teleport customers 200 feet into the air while they refuse to start until they finish filling all the seats, either).

So if there was actual pathfinding, they could simply go in through the side and door facing the entrance/Exit. Rather than following some predestined desicion that half the customers will go out one side, and half the customers will go out the other. No matter what.

But even if there was fixed pathfinding... That still leaves the fact the flow of customers is rather crazy compared to a proper ferris wheel. What with the "We're only loading and unloading every single car at once!" logic.

EDIT: Note to self. For any vendor based goals, hope I'm allowed to build a Radius in that scenario that exits into a food court.

I bet the average customer will be practically dying of hunger, thirst, and willing to use pay toilets after a 10 minute ride, after a 10-60 minute wait to be allowed on a ferris wheel.