Pollution in Tropico 6 is busted, and I'm tired of pretending it's not

[Dude_84_Dude]

Last year, I started a thread on healthcare in Tropico 6 and why it's so inefficacious. Why it was that despite having plentiful clinics and hospitals, people still tended to die off at alarming rates due to "bad healthcare," which made it all but impossible to grow your population without treating immigration like a faucet for your always dwindling pool of citizens.

Turns out the real culprit was pollution. If you're not cleaning up pollution, which accumulates overtime in either housing or industry, it will kill people with low healthcare happiness (probably just as they're on their way to a clinic/hospital, no less). The problem is that Tropico 6 doesn't even GIVE you a way to mitigate pollution until the Cold War era in which you can build garbage dumps, or enact the mandatory recycling edict, or appoint an environmentalist to your ministry.

In the Modern Era, you also get access to a waste treatment facility which, despite not having the range of a garbage dump, cleans more efficiently while generating no pollution of its own. Placing a waste treatment facility next to a garbage dump is a powerful combo that can potentially nullify all pollution in a given area.

But you know what's even stronger than that? You know what blows all of them completely out of the water? Inspiring billboards. That's right. If you set an inspiring billboard to recycle, it will lower the pollution build up in a small area near residential buildings. However, for whatever reason, when you have at least three inspiring billboards set to recycle--doesn't matter how close or far they are from each other--the effect becomes global. Instantly, nearly all pollution throughout your island is brought to zero or one. For the past few games I've done, I've started in the Cold War era, spammed billboards, set them to recycle, and didn't have to worry about pollution ever again; and my population doesn't die off at alarming rates anymore. This has made my games more enjoyable.

It's an overpowered exploit, obviously. Because why buy garbage dumps that are expensive to maintain (much too expensive, in fact) when you can just plop down a few signs and never have to worry about pollution ever again?

I'm demanding that Kalypso fixes this. Give the player ways to clean up pollution in the Colonial and World Wars era, but also make it so pollution doesn't have such egregious penalties that can kill off as many as twenty people in a given year. And then fix the obvious bug with inspiring billboards while making garbage dumps much less of a money sink to keep active. Seriously, why do I have to pay a whopping ten grand to fill up a dump just to keep it going on the threat that people in its vicinity will start dying off from pollution?

And for God's sake, put in a prompt from Penultimo reminding El Presidente to keep on top of pollution before people begin to die off. I am DEMANDING you fix this, Kalypso! As a customer who has so far bought all the DLC and sunk more than five-hundred hours into this game, FIX. THIS. NOW.

Please.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Mister Dude:

I'm demanding that Kalypso fixes this.

Kalypso is the publisher, not the developer they don't make or fix anything in the game.

[Internet Native😳🖥]

Tropico 6 compared to 5 is so bad its not even funny😭

[Dude_84_Dude]

Originally posted by Internet Native😳🖥:

Tropico 6 compared to 5 is so bad its not even funny😭

You know, I haven't got around to playing 5 thoroughly yet, even though it's in my library. Guess I'll have to.

[striker101]

and according to the code the actual chance to die of "low healthcare" is 25% that chance is rolled when an agent dips below 10 ( actual is 8) healthcare, my mod realestate mngr does fix this by reducing that chance from 25% to 7% ( pollution dmg is calculated when an agent rests and the rest time is 30 ( some houses like the SuperVilla have rest times of 100) (30x0.25=7.5 dmg against the heath of the agent my tuning does this 30x0.07=2.1 dmg against the health. this plus good city planning and along with 2 garbage pits and a recycle plant helps to keep my pop humming along

[Dude_84_Dude]

Originally posted by striker101:

and according to the code the actual chance to die of "low healthcare" is 25% that chance is rolled when an agent dips below 10 ( actual is 8) healthcare, my mod realestate mngr does fix this by reducing that chance from 25% to 7% ( pollution dmg is calculated when an agent rests and the rest time is 30 ( some houses like the SuperVilla have rest times of 100) (30x0.25=7.5 dmg against the heath of the agent my tuning does this 30x0.07=2.1 dmg against the health. this plus good city planning and along with 2 garbage pits and a recycle plant helps to keep my pop humming along

Well, hopefully someone will create another mod that fixes this issue since the developers don't seem to care no matter how much I bring it up

[Elgar]

Originally posted by Internet Native😳🖥:

when you have at least three inspiring billboards set to recycle--doesn't matter how close or far they are from each other--the effect becomes global. Instantly, nearly all pollution throughout your island is brought to zero or one.

Wow. Interesting discovery, thanks for sharing. Strange bug indeed.

And I agree, devs please give us new means to mitigate pollution and to beautify our islands.

[striker101]

the problem with Healthcare is this
1. Tropicans have a "hidden" lifestate called "infant"
2. that lifestate is self contained within the residential structure of the parents
3. residential structures create a set amount of pollution over a small radius ( about 5 sq tiles)
4. there is a pollution health decay rate set to 30 ticks against the agents health every time they rest ( likely further modified by the local pollution as seen on the pollution overlay
5. Most Low healthcare deaths are infants who lose health as a consequence of the above notations
6. Modding out the pollution generator from residential structures is the fix for this and has already been shown as a lightweight solution to the problem.
7. doing this will still mean that the residential structures are still affected by local pollution ( and thus agents will still die of low healthcare but not nearly as much and with proper planning none at all. )

the more permanent fix is for RealmForge to design future residential structures with no in built pollution generators

[Dude_84_Dude]

So I see that Inspiring Billboards got patched in the latest update. Okay. But are there other ways of managing pollution? I haven't purchased the Going Viral DLC, and judging from what others have said about it ruining the Colonial and World Wars eras, I don't think I'm ever going to. As I've said, the Colonial and Worlds Wars eras are already broken from not being able to clean pollution, so having random diseases kill off swaths of my already beleaguered population is the LAST thing I'd want.

How about for your next DLC, you have a pollution themed one that's all about giving the player more options to clean up pollution in ALL eras? And for God's sake, why do I need to appoint a hippie environmentalist to minister of interior just to lower pollution in residential areas? Ever hear of a sanitation commissioner? Just please give me ways to combat pollution already!

[Kunovega]

Pollution is extremely easy to deal with, I've never used the billboard glitch for it and never have issues with it. And I've never used an environmentalist minister either.

It just sounds like you've never really looked at how many tools and options you have to deal with this.

[Dude_84_Dude]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Pollution is extremely easy to deal with, I've never used the billboard glitch for it and never have issues with it. And I've never used an environmentalist minister either.

It just sounds like you've never really looked at how many tools and options you have to deal with this.

The resident contrarian speaks. So what tools exist in the Colonial Era and World Wars era for dealing with it?

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Mister Dude:

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Pollution is extremely easy to deal with, I've never used the billboard glitch for it and never have issues with it. And I've never used an environmentalist minister either.

It just sounds like you've never really looked at how many tools and options you have to deal with this.

The resident contrarian speaks. So what tools exist in the Colonial Era and World Wars era for dealing with it?

Funny for you to ask that when the solutions you were discussing (billboards and environmentalists) did not exist in those era's even before this change. Nothing about these changes effect those two era's.

My comment was in response to your complaints over the billboard change which has nothing to do with colonial or WW era.

You might as well be crying over the poor healthcare in colonial, well duh?

Pollution control doesn't become an issue until Cold War era, and I simply pointed out that you never needed billboards to control it from that point forward.

---
Edicts: Mandatory Waste Sorting (huge decrease to residential), Sea Disposal (easy to balance if you trade with the superpowers frequently)

Constitution, Ecology, Zero Emissions (huge decrease to industry)

Various buildings have upgrades (like pollution filters on Power Plant)

The Reclaimer filters out pollution and even gives you back resources.

The offshore turbines can be set to blow away pollution instead of generating power.

The most powerful combo though is garbage dumps with a water treatment plant overlapping it. The dump keeps a large radius clean and the treatment plant cleans the dump and whatever else is next to it. This combo is so powerful that reclaimers may not even find enough pollution to give back resources.

The only thing I ever used billboards for is to reduce crime around housing areas, reduce risk of fire around industry and power generating buildings or sometimes to recruit for space missions if I happen to be playing with that turned on.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3148589156

How about for your next DLC, you have a pollution themed one that's all about giving the player more options to clean up pollution in ALL eras?

Funny that you would bring that up, the latest DLC added water wells and towers that can be used for clean water and pollution reduction in all era. It's beyond overkill.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3148597495

[Dude_84_Dude]

Dude, I'm the one who originally made a thread pointing out that inspiring billboards are over-powered.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/492720/discussions/0/3808406608218669797/

I brought it to everyone's attention. And even though I abused this glitch in my own games, I personally don't mind that it got patched (otherwise, why call attention to it?). And I know there are numerous other ways of dealing with pollution.


Edicts: Mandatory Waste Sorting (huge decrease to residential), Sea Disposal (easy to balance if you trade with the superpowers frequently)

I mention those in my preamble. I mention edicts and even the garbage dump/treatment facility combo. Maybe go back and reread my original post next time you decide to push your glasses up your nose and do the whole Redditor "um, ackshually" thing.

My gripe has always been about not being able to control pollution in the Colonial and World Wars eras, which makes it impossible to have balanced healthcare in said eras.

Now if the new DLC has new ways to lower pollution in the Colonial and World Wars eras, then great. But if it comes with random plagues even in sandbox mode then what's the point? Just brings with it a new problem which defeats the purpose of trying to keep the population alive and healthy. One step forward, two steps back. That you would even need to get the DLC just to fix a broken game mechanic is silly. The Going Viral DLC doesn't sound appealing to me. I don't think I should need to get DLC just to better combat pollution, but if I did, I would've liked for it to not come with an additional headache. Reviews have already pointed out that plagues break Colonial era, making it virtually unplayable. No thank you; I don't need to compound the problem further.

Garbage dumps should be available in ALL eras. There's no reason the Colonial and World Wars eras shouldn't have more ways to combat pollution than waiting until the game arbitrarily lets you. It was always bad design from the beginning. You're being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Mister Dude:

You're being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.e.

That would be you, repeatedly.

You complained that the billboards were changed, all I did was comment they weren't needed. You demanded an explanation; then tried to gaslight by arguing over era's where the billboards didn't even have anything to do with it; then you pivoted to argue over other aspects of the game.

You've created nothing but arguments in response to a very simple comment that the billboards weren't needed. Now you're pretending that I'm the one "being argumentative"

Take a look in the mirror and go argue with yourself. You're either intentionally trolling at this point or just oblivious to your own behavior.

[Dude_84_Dude]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Originally posted by Mister Dude:

You're being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.e.

You complained that the billboards were changed, all I did was comment they weren't needed. You demanded an explanation; then tried to gaslight by arguing over era's where the billboards didn't even have anything to do with it; then you pivoted to argue over other aspects of the game.

Originally posted by Mister Dude:

So I see that Inspiring Billboards got patched in the latest update. Okay. But are there other ways of managing pollution? I haven't purchased the Going Viral DLC, and judging from what others have said about it ruining the Colonial and World Wars eras, I don't think I'm ever going to. As I've said, the Colonial and Worlds Wars eras are already broken from not being able to clean pollution, so having random diseases kill off swaths of my already beleaguered population is the LAST thing I'd want.

I didn't complain about billboards being changed, I merely reiterated the problem of pollution in the Colonial/World Wars eras. If I were to make a complaint, I wouldn't have used the word "patched" to imply that a bug had been fixed (a bug that I found and reported, no less). I appreciate the fact that someone read my posts and fixed it, but I'm still annoyed about the ever present problem of pollution before the Cold War era. Past updates have provided new buildings for free without the need for DLC. New buildings for controlling pollution in the aforementioned eras would be appreciated, with or without DLC (but preferably without as it's a fundamental flaw in the game's overall balance).

Anyways, you're making assumptions. And you know what they say about people who assume...

[Vik]

Modding the game for these types of simple balance changes is very easy, once you get a little bit familiar with the Mod Kit. It requires no programming knowledge & can be done by changing number values & drop-downs.
I've changed my own garbage dumps to have an effective radius of 100 (so one dump covers all the houses on my island) & reduced the cost to fill-up the dump to 1000. The era when it first becomes available can also be easily modded to World Wars, or even Colonial. (The only thing would be that it will look visually strange in the Colonial era.)