Tropico 6

Tropico 6

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aluk460 Jul 3, 2020 @ 12:01am
TROPICO DEMOGRAPHICS ISSUE / NO FAMILY WITH MORE THAN 2 KIDS
why the only way to increase population is through immigration? why is it impossible to increase population naturally without immigration?
Last edited by aluk460; Aug 18, 2020 @ 1:37pm
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Showing 1-15 of 38 comments
Kunovega Jul 3, 2020 @ 12:40am 
Originally posted by aluk460:
why the only way to increase population is through immigration?

I'ts not the only way, you are simply wrong.

why is it impossible to increase population naturally without immigration?

It's not impossible, it's just slower, and for very obvious reasons that you obviously never thought about.

Are you aware of how long it takes to have a baby? Are you aware of how long it takes for a child to grow old enough to work a job? Are you aware of how long it takes for them to get an education if you want them to work at something other than unskilled labor?

You are running a micro-nation, your population count generally starts somewhere between 50 and 100 people. Even assuming they all get married (which not all of them will) and assuming they all have on average 2 children per married couple (not all of them will) you will at best double your working population on an average of every 20 years through natural birth rates.

So, you start with say 100 people, all of them get married and produce over time 100 kids, you will at best double your population roughly every 20 years. Now realize that people also get old and die, so every 60 years or so you will lose that original group of 100 people, or even if they are not dead then they will at least eventually retire and be out of the work force, now they are a further burden on the economy because you still need to house and feed them.

So, lets say you start with 100 people, play for 60 years. You have maybe 600 population but at best only about 400 of them are working adults, with 200 of them either too old or too young to work.

So yes, the game does have natural population growth, it also has a birth and death cycle and the process takes years, as expected.

Other factors also come into play, your various edicts and services available. A population that is not happy will not bother to have children, a population that is poor will be less likely to have children, various choices you make effect everything from birth rates to retirement age for how long someone remains in the workforce. And if you aren't feeding them enough or providing enough healthcare, your death rates will be notably higher as well, starvation and poor healthcare will decimate a population to the point where natural births are barely able to replace the lost workers let alone actually allow for growth, this in addition to various settings that can increase workplace deaths from accidents.

You can find all of that information in game if you bother to look for it and read. You can also watch each family as they get married and have children, you could even watch as each child grows and forms their own family. Everything you just asked about is visible in game, but it would require you actually look, and that you understand that children don't magically grow up instantly.

You aren't running a country of millions or even thousands of people, you are running a tiny micro nation of hundreds, natural birth rates are a very slow cycle and poor decisions will slow it down even further, or undermine the growth with a high death toll.

If you want to grow the island faster than natural birth rates, you'll need some immigration. Or feel free to wait and watch those kids grow up, it's all visible to you in game, if you had looked for it.
Last edited by Kunovega; Jul 3, 2020 @ 12:47am
aluk460 Jul 24, 2020 @ 5:29am 
dude you are wrong. there is in the screen corner the number of people that live in the island. and it will never increase.
you try to think about it. and then tell me your results
Skybreaker Jul 24, 2020 @ 5:41am 
Hi aluk460,
please be aware that your population is not increasing any more, as you have reached the population cap, which is by default 2,000. However it can be increased in the main menu options.
This should be still used with care, as this is only recommended, if you are running a decent machine with respective system specs.

-cheers
Kunovega Jul 24, 2020 @ 10:31am 
Originally posted by aluk460:
dude you are wrong. there is in the screen corner the number of people that live in the island. and it will never increase.
you try to think about it. and then tell me your results

You seem to be talking about two different elements. Your original post claimed you couldn't increase population through natural growth when in fact you can, as I already explained earlier.

On the other hand if you are talking about the cap on total population, that's controlled in the options menu. A larger population is much more CPU intensive and the default cap is relatively low to accommodate low end computers, you can turn it up just like any graphics option if your system can handle it.

However, population cap effects the entire island for both immigration and natural birth so your original post did not imply that you were asking about the population cap. If your issue is the population cap then it's not a problem of natural growth, your immigration is also being capped.

Please be more clear in what you are asking. You either don't understand the natural growth mechanics or have simply not explored your game options to raise the cap.

By the way, if you have been reaching the cap, you weren't doing it from natural growth; you've had immigration to help you along the way and probably didn't notice it.
aluk460 Aug 16, 2020 @ 10:20am 
ok, so i will re explain.
- it s not the population cap. in fact i am far from the population cap
- even by adding all the possible laws and edicts (forbid contraceptives, forbid emigration, forced marriage) still there is not natural growth. and anyway, even if the edict forbid contraceptives is made, there is no difference in the natality rate.
all this with a healthcare happiness over 75.
Kunovega Aug 16, 2020 @ 10:28am 
Originally posted by aluk460:
ok, so i will re explain.
- it s not the population cap. in fact i am far from the population cap
- even by adding all the possible laws and edicts (forbid contraceptives, forbid emigration, forced marriage) still there is not natural growth. and anyway, even if the edict forbid contraceptives is made, there is no difference in the natality rate.
all this with a healthcare happiness over 75.

What is your starting population when you are doing this test?

What speed are you playing at?

How many in-game YEARS are you waiting to take your next measurement?

What's the population after that many years at that speed?

What's your death rate?

You aren't providing enough information, and your last post made it sound like you hit the pop cap and couldn't progress beyond the setting.
Last edited by Kunovega; Aug 16, 2020 @ 10:29am
aluk460 Aug 16, 2020 @ 10:40am 
usually between 500 and 1000 people i enact the laws of forbidding contraceptives and forbidding emigration.
playing at maximum speed. housing is no issue, and generally the level of happiness and employment is high, especially healthcare is always over 80.
doesnt matter how many years pass, the population will never increase naturally, and i will rather start having a slow decrease of the population.
death rate not calculated and not relevant, healthcare is single payer and happiness over 80.
even if i enact welfare laws and provide free housing , and even if there are a lot of empty houses, still no population growth.
i let it run for several years like this, until the population fairly decreased and i had no other choice but to take in immigrants to fill in the vacancies.
simply said, there is literally no way to have a natural increase of the population. try it out yourself.
aluk460 Aug 16, 2020 @ 10:43am 
*note: even when the population is 1200 - 1500 i tried. no growth at all, but as always slight population decline. literally forbidding contraceptives has no effect.
in the past tropico games it was easier, you could setup hospitals with specialization obstetrician or something like that to increase the birth rate. in tropico 5 even in the cinemas there was the option "romantic movie" that would increase the birthrates by 5%. no such thing in tropico 6. fairly disappointing, as i think many people would find more comfortable have a calculated natural population growth and so being able to slowly plan the growth of the island
Kunovega Aug 16, 2020 @ 11:26am 
Originally posted by aluk460:
death rate not calculated and not relevant.

When you make dumb statements like this, it makes me think you have not understood any part of this conversation so far.

If your birth rates do not exceed your death rates you would have 0 population growth. If your death rate exceeds your birth rates, you would have population loss.

The only number more relevant to this conversation than death rate is birth rate.

Originally posted by aluk460:
usually between 500 and 1000 people i enact the laws of forbidding contraceptives and forbidding emigration.
playing at maximum speed. housing is no issue, and generally the level of happiness and employment is high, especially healthcare is always over 80.

Religious satisfaction is the main stat for increased birth rate, not housing/happiness/employment.

And forbidding emigration doesn't actually stop people from leaving, it just makes it harder for them to leave. They can still rebel and ignore your orders and leave, the more intolerant you are, the less freedom they have, the more you will have people circumventing your orders and rebelling and leaving the population.

doesnt matter how many years pass, the population will never increase naturally, and i will rather start having a slow decrease of the population.
death rate not calculated and not relevant, healthcare is single payer and happiness over 80.
even if i enact welfare laws and provide free housing , and even if there are a lot of empty houses, still no population growth.
i let it run for several years like this, until the population fairly decreased and i had no other choice but to take in immigrants to fill in the vacancies.

It does matter how many years you are observing because children do not grow up instantly. "Several years" is not a number, and your observations are meaningless if they don't include at 20+ year cycle.

I've already explained this earlier. Children have to be born, then it takes a number of years before they can even enter the work force. You are being so flippant with your inaccurate answers that it's impossible to tell if you are even waiting long enough for your observations to matter.

simply said, there is literally no way to have a natural increase of the population. try it out yourself.

I've played the game more than enough hours to know that natural increase in the population is possible. It's just slow, as it would be expected for such a small population. You sound like you either do not understand the mechanics involved or you aren't waiting a long enough period of time. You are also clearly not comparing the correct metrics since you think death rate is irrelevant.

You can't have natural population growth unless your birth rates exceed your death rates and it won't have any meaningful impact unless you observe in 10 and 20 year intervals because you aren't waiting long enough for children to grow up and enter the work force. They will take even longer if an education is required as they must pass through high school and college for the top tier jobs.

Worker replacement from natural births is a 20 year cycle and if you have no currently available workers to take the place of one who dies or rebels it can be 10 to 20 years before a natural replacement is born and educated enough to take their place.

Are you even observing the children on your island during any of this? Because if you have kids on the island, then what you have natural population growth. If what you were claiming were true, you wouldn't have any kids at all on the island.

Originally posted by aluk460:
*note: even when the population is 1200 - 1500 i tried. no growth at all, but as always slight population decline. literally forbidding contraceptives has no effect.
in the past tropico games it was easier, you could setup hospitals with specialization obstetrician or something like that to increase the birth rate. in tropico 5 even in the cinemas there was the option "romantic movie" that would increase the birthrates by 5%. no such thing in tropico 6. fairly disappointing, as i think many people would find more comfortable have a calculated natural population growth and so being able to slowly plan the growth of the island

You've given no indication that you are observing over a long enough period of time and you ignored the most important things to compare.

Since you have no understanding of the basics of population growth to begin with, you won't even have a frame of reference on how to compare 5% changes.

If it was going to take 20 years to get a replacement worker, that 5% change at best reduces it to 19 years, it's statistically insignificant unless you are capable of factoring in all the other metrics, the most important of which you have refused to provide.

Birth rate versus death rate over X number of years measured in decades while factoring in all other effects would be the start of any attempt to clear this up further.

As it stands, it appears you simply do not understand the game. You keep telling me to test it, I have and you refuse to even provide the correct numbers for comparison. Natural birth rates are slow, small changes to them have small effects. If you want fast population growth you import workers. If you don't then you will wait decades and the majority of your births will only serve to replace the dead or the rebels that leave.
aluk460 Aug 17, 2020 @ 7:29am 
dude... i do not need the death rate.
if all my satisfaction levels are over 80, and i have enacted all the edicts to favor population growth, you tell me. i waited even more than 20 yrs, and i only had a substantial decline.
i will repeat, all the happiness levels are over 80, all the laws that favor childbirth are in place, unemployment is non existent, yet i fail to have any natural growth.
and i mean, why are you talking about deathrate? the relevant part should be the healthcare happiness.
i tried even raising the religious satisfaction to the maximum, no difference. i tried even with building hagia sophia so citizens would not die of bad healthcare. no difference.
so tell me now, do you have some specific DLC? or cheatcodes? or which laws / edicts do you enact?
aluk460 Aug 17, 2020 @ 7:30am 
Originally posted by Unerde:
Hi aluk460,
please be aware that your population is not increasing any more, as you have reached the population cap, which is by default 2,000. However it can be increased in the main menu options.
This should be still used with care, as this is only recommended, if you are running a decent machine with respective system specs.

-cheers

tried everything possible. increased cap to 10 000. no difference
aluk460 Aug 17, 2020 @ 7:30am 
honestly, to me it looks like the game is coded this way, to not allow natural growth.
Indignation211 Aug 17, 2020 @ 11:18am 
In the Almanac, under the People tab, the first things it tells you are population growth and decline over the last 12 in-game months. If you click on growth or decline it will further tell you how many people were born or immigrated, or how many people died, emigrated or became guerillas. You can further expand the deaths to see how many died of old age and how many died due to lack of healthcare.

For starters, can you check how many births you have in a given year or several years versus how many deaths of natural causes you have? If the number of deaths by natural causes is higher than births then yes you've got a problem.

Beyond that you can have people dying from lack of healthcare or food. Broke unemployed citizens may not be able to access healthcare at all depending on your constitution, but given that your unemployment is nonexistent that likely isn't what is causing your decline.

The last thing to look at is guerillas. No matter how high your overall happiness is if you have low Liberty specifically you can have people rebelling and eventually becoming Guerillas. Basically each time you see "Guerillas are attacking!" that's about 5 citizens off your population right there, as even if they aren't intercepted by your military they will escape and hide in the wilderness only to come back to attack your palace later.
Indignation211 Aug 17, 2020 @ 11:37am 
Also in that same section of the Almanac you can click on Age to see how many citizens are Children, Adults and Retired. As has been said before it takes about 15-20 years for a Child to become an Adult and enter the workforce, though they can receive education during this period. Also citizens can retire at around age 70, no longer working but still taking up residential and service capacity (and paying relevant fees) until they eventually die of natural causes (provided something else doesnt kill them sooner like bad healthcare).
Indignation211 Aug 17, 2020 @ 1:23pm 
Okay so, I actually just ran a test myself, going over 20 in-game years during Modern Times. I set the Immigration Office to Triopico First to keep immigration to a minimum. Each January I opened the Almanac and recorded births, natural deaths, preventable deaths over the last year as well as the current population of children, adults and retired. I also did no new construction during this period except to expand healthcare capacity if needed.

The result was actually a steady DECLINE in population. My births each year on average were roughly equal to natural deaths, but despite supposedly having adequate capacity of high quality healthcare i still had a significant number of deaths from bad healthcare. Also I noted a steady rise in the Child and Retired brackets but a significant decline of over 100 working adults.

I might run this test for another decade or two to see if anything changes.
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Date Posted: Jul 3, 2020 @ 12:01am
Posts: 38