Nemesis vs XP32 Question

[ATEM]

In my last Skyrim SE run I played about 80 hours with no problems at all. Then I saw how cool CGO was, and Installed Nemesis, and immediately felt the gameplay more fun. After installing a few extra mods for DAR/Nemesis like AGO, and other few animations mods I started to note my game started to CTD.

I did not know XP32 was not supported by Nemesis, and in my modding experience ANYTHING touching XP32 was an invitation for Skyrim to crash. So here I am asking you, if you use nemesis, how do you deal with no xp32? My understanding is that XP32 is the base for body physics, and also a lot of other seems to rely on it.

What's the right way to use CGO if I want to keep the body physics?

[smr1957]

I just posted this re: Nemesis in another thread, but I'll repost it again here, as it should be something people should definitely consider when making a decision on whether they should use Nemesis or not.

Regarding whether Nemesis is worth it or not, I recently did a little investigating, and what I found should be taken into consideration. The results would seem to indicate that, at least going by the evidence on Github, that work on Nemesis is no longer being done, and has not been for quite some time. I posted the following
(link to original post - https://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/3087760096563327984/?tscn=1622209022#c3087760096571617215 )

"With all the talk of Nemesis being the future, one thing that I noticed when checking the posts on GitHub, is that the author of Nemesis has not responded to any bug reports or posts since Nov '20, when he asked someone to post their log and then never responded once they did so; and previous to that, had only a few random responses - a couple in October and in September, a few in August, and some in July - compared to when the mod was released when he consistently responded. Furthermore, the last update to Nemesis was May 26, 2020; one would think that for a mod that is definitely not completely finalized (going by the reports of issues) that there would have been a subsequent update to address some of the reported issues. It would therefore seem to me, and this is only conjecture, that the author has lost interest and moved on - at least for now. At least as far as FNIS is concerned, though Fore retired, at least DarkDominion appears to have taken over the responsibility for responding to users posts - and has been doing so on a regular basis. Furthermore, FNIS was and is a finished product. With all this in mind, I think it is especially premature to describe Nemesis as the future, when as of now, any activity concerning its continued development and upkeep would seem to be in the past.

That is one problem when a mod is not posted on Nexus; much of what is going on is not immediately evident to most people - unless they do a little investigating.

Of course, if someone has some information that can be independently confirmed as regards the continuing development of Nemesis - such as a statement from ShikyoKira with links to the original post of that statement (and not second or third hand rumors), it would be much appreciated and would clear up whether work on Nemesis is being continued or not - because as of now, it would appear that it is not."

It would be nice if we could get some definitive information, but, as I said, going by the records and evidence shown on GitHub, it certainly does not appear that the author is involved any longer with this project.

And, finally, there is the Golden Rule of modding to consider, as well:
"No matter how good a mod may look or sound, no matter how much you may really want a mod, if the mod does not work as it should, causes issues in your game, or even seems to have the potential to cause issues, dump the mod. A game that does not work is no game at all."

Unfortunately, as much as it would be nice to endorse Nemesis as a mod to be used, given it's current status, it is not a mod I would recommend - no matter how nice a few animations that require it may look.

[amathy]

Originally posted by ATEM:

So here I am asking you, if you use nemesis, how do you deal with no xp32?

I don't? There's no issue with using Nemesis and XPMSSE together

[KNDY | No Toxicity!]

Originally posted by smr1957:

・・・

Understandably that if something isn't well supported , it rest on the user to decide if they want to use it. No qualms there.

Though in my time of using Nemesis since it's release is that there are miscommunication and lack of information available to the public unlike FNIS which still has continuous support, not in terms of update but resolution to probems.

To use Nemesis with it being stable, the user has to be diagnostic about every single mod installed. Which usually people give up doing after a handful of tries.

[KNDY | No Toxicity!]

Originally posted by ATEM:

・・・

XMPSE should be able to work just fine with Nemesis. I have it working just fine with no issues.

We can try recreating what you did here so we can find out what happened?
If you're using virtual install with something like MO, can you try making a new mod profile so it doesn't touch your current one?

Installing ONLY the XMPSE and your basic physics enabled body.

> If you're using FNIS prior to Nemesis, you might want to clean your save first.
> Nemesis creates a fake FNIS.esp file. People are often told to check it. No, just leave it uncheck.

Might be stupid to ask, do you play with SKSE? Since FNIS does not require SKSE and Nemesis does.

When does the CTD occur? Right after loading? Or randomly at times?
Does it crash if you remove XP32?

[Vlad 254]

Originally posted by ATEM:

In my last Skyrim SE run I played about 80 hours with no problems at all. Then I saw how cool CGO was, and Installed Nemesis, and immediately felt the gameplay more fun. After installing a few extra mods for DAR/Nemesis like AGO, and other few animations mods I started to note my game started to CTD.

I did not know XP32 was not supported by Nemesis, and in my modding experience ANYTHING touching XP32 was an invitation for Skyrim to crash. So here I am asking you, if you use nemesis, how do you deal with no xp32? My understanding is that XP32 is the base for body physics, and also a lot of other seems to rely on it.

What's the right way to use CGO if I want to keep the body physics?

XPMSSE works fine with Nemesis and more than a few mods depend on Nemesis, and many of the newer popular mods only work with Nemesis.

Nemesis will create a dummy esp for FNIS

Unless something has changed in the last say 2 weeks I used Nemesis just fine with Vortex so I can't speak to how it works with MO2 but seeing so many that use MO2 and Nemesis together one would think there is no problem.

Fact is, besides Creature animations, just about all if not all other animation mods that work with FNIS will work with Nemesis.

I also would recommend installing Project New Reign - Nemesis PCEA[www.nexusmods.com] you can get it on Nexus and it's new design eliminates many bugs haunting other PCEA as well as greatly improving the performance.

Of course Always remember to check your AV when having trouble running some mods.

We may not know if Nemesis is the new answer yet but we do know that there are many people who use it, many mods that depend on it and new mods are still coming out that require Nemesis as recent as 1 week ago. Heck new mods are still coming out that require FNIS. But back to OP's problem I can only say that Nemesis and XPMSSE worked fine together for me and it seems the same for the poster before me.

[Misuune]

If you're still using original XPMS instead of XPMSE then you should switch. But then if you're changing and adding mods mid-through, you may as well just start a new game to avoid problems that might occur on your existing save.

[ATEM]

Originally posted by smr1957:

I just posted this re: Nemesis in another thread, but I'll repost it again here, as it should be something people should definitely consider when making a decision on whether they should use Nemesis or not.

Regarding whether Nemesis is worth it or not, I recently did a little investigating, and what I found should be taken into consideration. The results would seem to indicate that, at least going by the evidence on Github, that work on Nemesis is no longer being done, and has not been for quite some time. I posted the following
(link to original post - https://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/3087760096563327984/?tscn=1622209022#c3087760096571617215 )

"With all the talk of Nemesis being the future, one thing that I noticed when checking the posts on GitHub, is that the author of Nemesis has not responded to any bug reports or posts since Nov '20, when he asked someone to post their log and then never responded once they did so; and previous to that, had only a few random responses - a couple in October and in September, a few in August, and some in July - compared to when the mod was released when he consistently responded. Furthermore, the last update to Nemesis was May 26, 2020; one would think that for a mod that is definitely not completely finalized (going by the reports of issues) that there would have been a subsequent update to address some of the reported issues. It would therefore seem to me, and this is only conjecture, that the author has lost interest and moved on - at least for now. At least as far as FNIS is concerned, though Fore retired, at least DarkDominion appears to have taken over the responsibility for responding to users posts - and has been doing so on a regular basis. Furthermore, FNIS was and is a finished product. With all this in mind, I think it is especially premature to describe Nemesis as the future, when as of now, any activity concerning its continued development and upkeep would seem to be in the past.

That is one problem when a mod is not posted on Nexus; much of what is going on is not immediately evident to most people - unless they do a little investigating.

Of course, if someone has some information that can be independently confirmed as regards the continuing development of Nemesis - such as a statement from ShikyoKira with links to the original post of that statement (and not second or third hand rumors), it would be much appreciated and would clear up whether work on Nemesis is being continued or not - because as of now, it would appear that it is not."

It would be nice if we could get some definitive information, but, as I said, going by the records and evidence shown on GitHub, it certainly does not appear that the author is involved any longer with this project.

And, finally, there is the Golden Rule of modding to consider, as well:
"No matter how good a mod may look or sound, no matter how much you may really want a mod, if the mod does not work as it should, causes issues in your game, or even seems to have the potential to cause issues, dump the mod. A game that does not work is no game at all."

Unfortunately, as much as it would be nice to endorse Nemesis as a mod to be used, given it's current status, it is not a mod I would recommend - no matter how nice a few animations that require it may look.

Thanks for the info. I don't have much free time and I have not dug deep enough to know the status of it. I thought it was going to replace FNIS at some point.

[ATEM]

Originally posted by amathy oniichan uwu:

Originally posted by ATEM:

So here I am asking you, if you use nemesis, how do you deal with no xp32?

I don't? There's no issue with using Nemesis and XPMSSE together

Do you have XPMSSE and CGO working well together? When I play everything works perfectly fine until it crashes. I'm very picky with mods for this reason, and I knew I could f up my game but I took the risk of running nemesis and a few other mods and yes, it wrecked my game.

I'm currently in the testing face, always starting a new game from zero and fooling around to see how long until I get a ctd. Today's test will be unistalling DAR-Nemesis and see if that resolves my problem.

As I mentioned, before this I played a solid 80 hours with no even 1 ctd, but who knows, every setup is diferent, it's imposible to know what's going on just looking at the log.

[ATEM]

Originally posted by Ralof:

If you're still using original XPMS instead of XPMSE then you should switch. But then if you're changing and adding mods mid-through, you may as well just start a new game to avoid problems that might occur on your existing save.

Currently using XPMSSE. I'm in the testing phase meaning I start a new game everytime I install/uninstall a mod before it crashes.

[ATEM]

Originally posted by KNDY:

Originally posted by ATEM:

・・・

XMPSE should be able to work just fine with Nemesis. I have it working just fine with no issues.

We can try recreating what you did here so we can find out what happened?
If you're using virtual install with something like MO, can you try making a new mod profile so it doesn't touch your current one?

Installing ONLY the XMPSE and your basic physics enabled body.

> If you're using FNIS prior to Nemesis, you might want to clean your save first.
> Nemesis creates a fake FNIS.esp file. People are often told to check it. No, just leave it uncheck.

Might be stupid to ask, do you play with SKSE? Since FNIS does not require SKSE and Nemesis does.

When does the CTD occur? Right after loading? Or randomly at times?
Does it crash if you remove XP32?

Here is my mod list:

https://ibb.co/G5Vc5Fv
https://ibb.co/yNkpwSk
https://ibb.co/4WDXcXq
https://ibb.co/tHWzZWK
https://ibb.co/TMVqD3F

The more recent mods I installed before my game became unstable were:

========================================================

360 Movement Behavior
360 Movement Behavior fixes
DynamicAnimationReplacer (DAR)
DAR - Dynamic Swimming
Archery Gameplay Overhaul
Combat Gameplay Overhaul
Immersive Interactions
EVG Animation Variance
EVE - Giant Campfires Cast Shadows - SV
Player Voicesets - with Custom Voice
Thundering Shouts
Ultimate Combat SE
VioLens - A Killmove Mod SE 2.22a
Dog to Husky Replacer
Sea of Spirits 1.2v BSA
Depths of Skyrim
Immersive Citizens AI Overhaul
Alternate Start - Live another life
Scrolling Spped Continued
SmmothCam - Main File
Immersive First Person View - IFPV v10
NetScriptFramework SkyrimSE v14
SmoothCam - Modern Camera Preset
RSSE Children Overhaul 1.1.3 with hotfix 1
Alternate Conversation Camera

====================================

One or several of these mods are the ones breaking the game. The rest I know they worked pretty well together. Any ideas?

CTD Occurs randomly, I try to stress the game running around whiterun all the way to Solitude always starting a new game until I feel it's stable enough.

[ATEM]

BTW thank you all for replying and trying to help. Much appreciated, I can't wait until Collections is a thing, I have wasted too much time trying to make my game stable and great at the same time.

[Vlad 254]

Many new mods and mods that are not new but are still new to a user are blamed for problems. I used Nemesis with XPMSE and CGO with zero problems. I'm not backing any one particular mod or crucifying any one mod. I can only tell you my experience and what I have seen from many others who have clearly stated the same.

FNIS had some users who swore it wrecked their game for that matter SKYUI had those comments as well.

We also have people who successfully use FNIS and Nemesis in the same load order.

I don't know how you built your game ATEM but it sounds like you know what you are doing.

Suggestion: try picking one combat overhaul, either CGO or AGO. For me they both "functioned" together as in no crashes. Don't remember why I dropped AGO gut I did. Try that.

[Vlad 254]

Ok, had to grab a quick bite.

Couple of basic questions

Are all the plugins active? (Make sure)

Did you use the nemesis patch for AGO?

We know they all should work together

(FNIS is not an option)


Here's note from the CGO mod author:
"360 Combat requires changes to the vanilla races inside the esp. If you want to use this feature, you may need to create a patch with TES5Edit to fix a conflict with another esp file"

One of the reasons I got rid of AGO was with CGO etc my camera was not liking the setup. The CGO mod author suggests "Improved Camera"
https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/cae3x2/mod_improved_camera_beta_3/

There is a patch for Retimed Hit Frames as it seems it does not work properly with CGO
Combat Gameplay Overhaul and Retimed Hit Frames Compatibility Patch
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/45786

[KNDY | No Toxicity!]

Originally posted by ATEM:

・・・

Hold on, where's your compability patch ? I don't see any patch for anything.. Please run an instance of LOOT, I'm sure you left out quite a bit of patching. Also some patch cannot be merged.

Say if you merged them by some reason, if they're ESLs just leave them as one unless mod author mention that merging should be fine or do enough debugging.

I'm also pretty sure it has something to do with your load order, something is overwriting something you shouldn't have. The image you sorted by status? You'd want to sort by load order so you can see what is overwriting what.

Framework mods should go to the top and patches to the bottom. (In general ! So framework can be overwrited if add-ons are available and patches can patch something and not be overwritten by it's own mod it's supposed to patch.)

Your nemesis patched with no crashes and tells you how long it took right? If that's the case, it shouldn't be a problem. In theory the worst it could do is not have animation assigned to the given actor.

[Vlad 254]

OK, trying to look at your mods list and it's tough to read, small letters for the text and it's clunky clicking 5 different snapshots. Copy and Paste your Loot sorted load order here.
Vortex keeps a text version here:
C:\Users\[your name]\AppData\Local\Skyrim Special Edition\loadorder.txt

that would really help.

What jumped out at me is:
You have 2 Weather mods
ELFX and Dolomite which is a problem.

ELFX indoors should be fine but not ELFX Weathers