Is Nemesis worth it?

[☧ Voievod]

Anyone here using Nemesis Unlimited Behavior Engine and could tell me if its worth using it for combat animations and other custom animations? I see it has tons of errors and cba to deal with that.

[CaptainR3x]

Originally posted by ✠ ReichsPanther:

So in order to use CGO do I need Nemesis? or it works without it too?

CGO NEED and ONLY work with Nemesis

[☧ Voievod]

but on the CGO nexus site on requirements it doesn't mentions it needs Nemesis. ♥♥♥♥ it then, cba to waste 20 hours just to set up nemesis just so I can get a dozen errors after that.

[Alstack]

I for one have switched to Nemesis and have been very happy with the results. FNIS has always been the gold standard IMO. I like the way NEMESIS works, doubt if I will go back to FINIS in future builds.

[Altbert]

I have used both Nemesis and FNIS ever since Nemesis was released without any problems. When either one doesn't do the job, I just use the other, unless a mod specifically requires Nemesis or FNIS.

[Vlad 254]

Works without.

They only requirements for CGO are SKYUI and SKSE64

[Vlad 254]

You would need Nemesis for adding "others" to CGO. For Example 360 movement mod:
https://youtu.be/4lSp3tZI2xc

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by Altbert:

When either one doesn't do the job, I just use the other, unless a mod specifically requires Nemesis or FNIS.

That's pretty much what I was telling the OP.

[MysticMalevolence]

Nemesis theoretically works with any FNIS animations. It will even make a dummy FNIS plugin to load mods that require the FNIS plugin. And it has a higher animation limit out of the box than FNIS.

The only ones it strictly doesn't support are creature animations, but if you're using one of the two nexus mods that need those there's a different mod available that provides the needed files for those mods. PCEA doesn't work, but Nemesis has its own. FNIS Sexymove is documented to not work, but it's redundant with DAR anyways.
Besides those it should work. If you aren't sure, just search the mod on the Nemesis github issue tracker to see if it's been reported.

What errors are you getting? Are you sure they are important?

Nemesis is supposedly still being worked on, but I don't think there's been activity for a little while now.

[smr1957]

With all the talk of Nemesis being the future, one thing that I noticed when checking the posts on GitHub, is that the author of Nemesis has not responded to any bug reports or posts since Nov '20, when he asked someone to post their log and then never responded once they did so; and previous to that, had only a few random responses - a couple in October and in September, a few in August, and some in July - compared to when the mod was released when he consistently responded. Furthermore, the last update to Nemesis was May 26, 2020; one would think that for a mod that is definitely not completely finalized (going by the reports of issues) that there would have been a subsequent update to address some of the reported issues. It would therefore seem to me, and this is only conjecture, that the author has lost interest and moved on - at least for now. At least as far as FNIS is concerned, though Fore retired, at least DarkDominion appears to have taken over the responsibility for responding to users posts - and has been doing so on a regular basis. Furthermore, FNIS was and is a finished product. With all this in mind, I think it is especially premature to describe Nemesis as the future, when as of now, any activity concerning its continued development and upkeep would seem to be in the past.

It should also be pointed out, that the last update for Nemesis was May 26, 2020, while Fnis was last updated on February 18 and 19, 2020 - so, with all the talk of FNIS being discontinued, it's most recen update is actually just 3 moths behind Nemesis' last update - with FNIS being an actually finished and polished final version (and for some time), while Nemesis, at the time of its last update, was not in a finished, polished state - and now, would seem, never will be.

That is one problem when a mod is not posted on Nexus; much of what is going on is not immediately evident to most people - unless they do a little investigating.

(All information regarding Nemesis may be found here:
https://github.com/ShikyoKira/Project-New-Reign---Nemesis-Main/releases
https://github.com/ShikyoKira/Project-New-Reign---Nemesis-Main/issues )

Of course, if someone has some information that can be independently confirmed as regards the continuing development of Nemesis - such as a statement from ShikyoKira with links to the original post of that statement (and not second or third hand rumors), it would be much appreciated and would clear up whether work on Nemesis is being continued or not - because as of now, it would appear that it is not."

It would be nice if we could get some definitive information, but, as I said, going by the records and evidence shown on GitHub, it certainly does not appear that the author is involved any longer with this project.

EDIT - Added links to Nemesis site on Github

[Alstack]

I sure hope Nemesis has not been dumped. It has promise. Like many modders, dedicating the time to the craft can be intimidating.

Hats off to all dedicated modders and youtubers who keep active and updated.

I surely do not have the knowledge to be one.

[smr1957]

Yeah, Alstack - I only looked at Github to check when the last update was - and was surprised that it was 6 months ago. So I did some further digging and came up with what I posted. Hopefully this is just a temporary slack period, because it did show promise and a LOT of people have started using it and a lot of mods are now coming out that use it - but that is all for naught if it is not being worked on anymore.

[tulle040657]

Thank you smr1957, good posts as always and you saved me a lot of typing and you have better language skills than I

[Alstack]

Originally posted by smr1957:

Yeah, Alstack - I only looked at Github to check when the last update was - and was surprised that it was 6 months ago. So I did some further digging and came up with what I posted. Hopefully this is just a temporary slack period, because it did show promise and a LOT of people have started using it and a lot of mods are now coming out that use it - but that is all for naught if it is not being worked on anymore.

We will keep our fingers & toes crossed. If not, next build will be with good, old, reliable FNIS.

[jims]

Changed over FNIS to Nemesis recently - what a headache. Plusses - some of the animations now that Nemesis dependent are amazing. Many of them are PC only which for a 100% 1st person perspective player are not of much use - I have learned to edit many of them to affect NPCs as well (no idea why they are restricted to PC only)
Negatives
1) many old animations are not compliant, despite the fake FNIS.esp it creates. Dozens of them.
2) XPMSE and Nemesis are not friends - at all. 42 screens of error messages in 20 seconds as an example. Leads to occasional freezes in heavily populated areas, NOT seen with FNIS. Freezes don't generate crash logs, so have to rely on papyrus - but 42 screens of errors in 20 seconds - no wonder it froze. This is not uncommon. btw- my cpu was <50% usage, GPU <50% usage at the time - 60fps limited. - in case someone says hardware overload.
3) The animation set ups are finicky to set up - so many look good, then you find there are 3 requirements, each with their own requirements. Some need to be pasted into particular folders - it's a science all in itself.
4) Running Nemesis itself - updating the engine pretty much every time it is run - then the run Nemesis checks to see it is updated anyway - why that hasn't been made a one click thing....About 50% of the time it just drops out half way through running, and needs to be started again, checking the engine is updated again....

[KNDY | No Toxicity!]

Originally posted by jims:

Changed over FNIS to Nemesis recently - what a headache. Plusses - some of the animations now that Nemesis dependent are amazing. Many of them are PC only which for a 100% 1st person perspective player are not of much use - I have learned to edit many of them to affect NPCs as well (no idea why they are restricted to PC only)
Negatives
1) many old animations are not compliant, despite the fake FNIS.esp it creates. Dozens of them.
2) XPMSE and Nemesis are not friends - at all. 42 screens of error messages in 20 seconds as an example. Leads to occasional freezes in heavily populated areas, NOT seen with FNIS. Freezes don't generate crash logs, so have to rely on papyrus - but 42 screens of errors in 20 seconds - no wonder it froze. This is not uncommon. btw- my cpu was <50% usage, GPU <50% usage at the time - 60fps limited. - in case someone says hardware overload.
3) The animation set ups are finicky to set up - so many look good, then you find there are 3 requirements, each with their own requirements. Some need to be pasted into particular folders - it's a science all in itself.
4) Running Nemesis itself - updating the engine pretty much every time it is run - then the run Nemesis checks to see it is updated anyway - why that hasn't been made a one click thing....About 50% of the time it just drops out half way through running, and needs to be started again, checking the engine is updated again....

1. Almost all animation will work with Nemesis. Animation files just contain animation data for the same engine. If it worked with FNIS, it would work with Nemesis as it does the same thing loading the animation into the game. If you're talking about oldrim animation not working in SSE, that's because you need to convert the 32bit data information into 64bit.

Aside from creature animations as mentioned by countless others before.
Though to what extend, I'm not quite sure myself.

Convert oldrim animation to SSE bat file:
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/30669?tab=description

Unless I'm misunderstanding something?

2. XMPSE has worked with no issues for me. I believe it was written somewhere where you install FNIS but uncheck the esp so it does not conflict with Nemesis. This should let XMPSE work just fine.

If you're getting errors, you left something out or did not do a proper installation.
Dirty save can also cause this to happen where you install and uninstall mod mid-through gameplay.

3. Do elaborate.

If it is PCEA. Then for sure as PCEA used to be a separate mod that apply animation specifically only to player characters. Otherwise, there are hardly any animation mod that requires you to manually install when non-specified actor animation were the concern.

4. It is indeed annoying that you need to update it first everytime you try to run a patch but it's usually pretty quick.

If your Nemesis drops out / closes on it's own. Something went wrong. You checked something you shouldn't or have conflicting animation mods.