CTD around Rorikstead

[Retro]

Hey guys, 400+ mod playthrough here. Smooth as a dolphin except for one issue; when I approach Rorikstead through the wilderness from Whiterun , it consistently CTDs every time around the same point. I've spawned in rorikstead using alternate start and it works fine. I can move around rorikstead, and the issue only appears when I move away from rorikstead and then try to return.

I dont mind gutting the mod list 1 by 1 until I find the culprit, but if anyone has experience with this consistent type of crash, I would be grateful.

Retro.

[Vegas Doc]

Probably a Navmesh (navigational mesh) issue, some mod has modified with the area around Rorikstead.. they are.usually around a bridge for some reason.

this is a post from another board... where CK stands for Creation Kit, CRF stands for Cutting Room Floor

"Navmesh conflicts, as far as I know, have to be resolved in the CK. You could create a patch with the Navmeshes forwarded from CRF and test it in-game by spawning some NPCs in the areas where bridges are added. You'll quickly know if these Navmesh edits conflict because of how the NPCs navigate the area. If they get stuck or go way off path, you've most likely have issues that will need to be fixed in the CK."

another mod that messes with NavMeshes is JK's Skyrim, since you have 400+ mods, which is way too many, I don't see how you don't have a 99% chance of CTD, Ha ha.

NOTE: on spawing npc(s) don't use something like a dragon, use harmless towns people or something to see how they navigate around the meshes

To find the Base ID of an NPC, type in "help <NPC's name> 4." If the NPC's name contains a space, it must be placed between quotes.

You then can use the console command [ player.placeatme <Item/NPCID> <#> ] to spawn npcs for testing, I usually just make a .bat file to do it.

[Retro]

Thanks for the reply Vegas Doc


Damn, that's what I was worried of. Read a few forum posts online about it.

I removed ALL mods except Another Life and re-installed skyrim, it worked. Then booted up with all the mods and it consistently CTDs at the same point.

I've tried uninstalling Skyland AIO, SOS, SkyTest incase it was an AI issue...

Forgive me but if it is a Navmesh issue, do I just need to comb through my graphical set up and village / town overhauls?

[smr1957]

The way to test is to start off with a vanilla save (or a save that only has the mods you absolutely know are safe) - one made where the CTDs occur so it is easy to test - and then add in groups of mods till you find the one causing the crash - making a manual save each time so you can roll back when the CTD occurs and zero in on the specific mod. And although that may be time consuming, often it is far better and quicker using that systematic approach than trying to guess willy-nilly which mod it is (unless one of us happens to spot a mod we know is a problem when you post a load order).

Second, once you do find which mod is causing the crash, and have removed it, you cannot continue using the same save, again due to how Skyrim bakes data into the save (and this data CANNOT be removed - despite what some may say) . You must either go back to a save made prior to having installed the removed/disabled mod, or start a new game. There is no other option - unless the mod is one of the exceptions mentioned in the below linked discussion. For complete info on this, see:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/1520386297681801135/

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by Retro:

Forgive me but if it is a Navmesh issue, do I just need to comb through my graphical set up and village / town overhauls?

It could be any mod that adds a lot of things in that area, including Flora overhauls and mods that add NPCs. You probably need to check them all.... Try by posting your load order, see if anyone can point out anything.

[Retro]

Originally posted by smr1957:

The way to test is to start off with a vanilla save (or a save that only has the mods you absolutely know are safe) - one made where the CTDs occur so it is easy to test - and then add in groups of mods till you find the one causing the crash - making a manual save each time so you can roll back when the CTD occurs and zero in on the specific mod. And although that may be time consuming, often it is far better and quicker using that systematic approach than trying to guess willy-nilly which mod it is (unless one of us happens to spot a mod we know is a problem when you post a load order).

Second, once you do find which mod is causing the crash, and have removed it, you cannot continue using the same save, again due to how Skyrim bakes data into the save (and this data CANNOT be removed - despite what some may say) . You must either go back to a save made prior to having installed the removed/disabled mod, or start a new game. There is no other option - unless the mod is one of the exceptions mentioned in the below linked discussion. For complete info on this, see:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/1520386297681801135/

Thanks dude. I think you are right, 8 have a lot of mods and quite a few Large merged plugins that I am going to have to test individually.

The problem is I spent 20+ hours on this mod list testing around whiterun and Falkreath and it was fine so I assumed it was OK overall.

Tomorrow I will get up and chew through them in blocks on 10 until I find the culprit.

Luckily the character I was playing as was a test save in herself, I was using her to test the stability of the mod list for my Orc Vamp playthrough.

[Retro]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Originally posted by Retro:

Forgive me but if it is a Navmesh issue, do I just need to comb through my graphical set up and village / town overhauls?

It could be any mod that adds a lot of things in that area, including Flora overhauls and mods that add NPCs. You probably need to check them all.... Try by posting your load order, see if anyone can point out anything.

I've turned off and on all mods that add NPC spawns as far as I know (populated roads, NPCs travel etc) but to no avail.

I will post the load order before bed tonight but the likelihood is I will need to test them individually to find the issue.

I just wanted to see if anyone had had a familiar experience. But tomorrow I will test each one and post my results here

[smr1957]

Seems like you have a pretty good handle on the problem, Retro. I can tell you that when I do my builds, I use the Alternate Start option (or it may be from the New Beginnings Alternate Start add-on mod) "I am a patron of an inn" and make a test starting from each inn as that way I can cover a lot of the game map with minimal traveling.

Hopefully it won't be in one of your merged files, as that can be a pain to break down and test and then rebuild.

Good luck and let us no how it goes

[Vegas Doc]

There are a significant number of warnings about over-modding, I think the most I ever used was 91 mods and even that gives me a 35% chance of CTD, especially since I use quite a few animation mods, FNIS cranks that number out for me after I run it, and it's pretty accurate, crashes are just part of the joys of playing Skyrim, we get used to it.

I know that I play SKYRIM way too much, 3K + logged hours, but it's probably more like 12K hours playing this game on XBOX etc. I try to buy new games and play them for like an hour, but it seems like I just re-install Skyrim, and play it again! There are some very funny You Tube Videos about addiction to SKYRIM, and I'm just another victim I guess, I think it's a really good game.

[Retro]

Thanks SMR, I too use the Alternate Start 'patron of a local inn' to test my mods! :)

I've spent about an hour today trying to discern what the problem is, but I will finish the search tomorrow and post the results.

[Retro]

Originally posted by Vegas Doc:

There are a significant number of warnings about over-modding, I think the most I ever used was 91 mods and even that gives me a 35% chance of CTD, especially since I use quite a few animation mods, FNIS cranks that number out for me after I run it, and it's pretty accurate, crashes are just part of the joys of playing Skyrim, we get used to it.

I know that I play SKYRIM way too much, 3K + logged hours, but it's probably more like 12K hours playing this game on XBOX etc. I try to buy new games and play them for like an hour, but it seems like I just re-install Skyrim, and play it again! There are some very funny You Tube Videos about addiction to SKYRIM, and I'm just another victim I guess, I think it's a really good game.

I completely agree! I go through periods of playing skyrim non-stop then taking a few weeks for a break (usually to play Fallout) but always return to build a monster modlist.

The kicker is I use 'tmm 1' command to unlock all map markers and travel around the map to check for problems. I've played this test character for 10 hours and absolutely no issues, but this one problem is going to cripple my OCD if I dont resolve it.

[Vegas Doc]

You're a doomed man...OCD and SKYRIM addiction, I can only sympathize with you. My wife has pretty bad OCD, and I'm glad that mine isn't as bad as her's, mine is on the more normal level, so the only thing that will stop this obsession with this very minor issue (to us) of crashing your favorite game is to be able to fix it! Yeah, get some rest, may sure that you're hydrated, not too much Mt. Dew or energy drinks, and plenty of Nacho Cheese Doritos! Kill a bunch of bad guys....opps.

I'm a pretty mellow person, I accept it, deal with it, avoid the conflict, sounds lazy but I don't get too stressed out that way, stress can be a real killer, so I check it through meditation (mindfulness), mellow music, in a quiet place....but a person with OCD gets things done! I like that because I really procrastinate just about everything....

We didn't even know about OCD when I was growing up, but now that I think about it, a lot of my friends must of had it, they got stuff done, I'm just hanging out and wondering what the heck happened most of the time.

"It is believed that OCD likely is the result of a combination of neurobiological, genetic, behavioral, cognitive, and environmental factors that trigger the disorder in a specific individual at a particular point in time. ... People with severe OCD symptoms may have a second variation in the same gene."

[Retro]

Originally posted by Vegas Doc:

You're a doomed man...OCD and SKYRIM addiction, I can only sympathize with you. My wife has pretty bad OCD, and I'm glad that mine isn't as bad as her's, mine is on the more normal level, so the only thing that will stop this obsession with this very minor issue (to us) of crashing your favorite game is to be able to fix it! Yeah, get some rest, may sure that you're hydrated, not too much Mt. Dew or energy drinks, and plenty of Nacho Cheese Doritos! Kill a bunch of bad guys....opps.

I'm a pretty mellow person, I accept it, deal with it, avoid the conflict, sounds lazy but I don't get too stressed out that way, stress can be a real killer, so I check it through meditation (mindfulness), mellow music, in a quiet place....but a person with OCD gets things done! I like that because I really procrastinate just about everything....

We didn't even know about OCD when I was growing up, but now that I think about it, a lot of my friends must of had it, they got stuff done, I'm just hanging out and wondering what the heck happened most of the time.

"It is believed that OCD likely is the result of a combination of neurobiological, genetic, behavioral, cognitive, and environmental factors that trigger the disorder in a specific individual at a particular point in time. ... People with severe OCD symptoms may have a second variation in the same gene."

@Vegas even if I can play around the bug or CTD, just knowing something isn't working in my load order is enough to keep me up at night!

I can relate to your experience with friends and their undiagnosed OCD, I used to work with autistic children and now I have had training in the area, I am sure a lot of my buddies are on the spectrum.



After 4 days of chopping and changing the modlist, learning about how to restore deleted Nav meshes and taking apart my merged plugins...

I have a stable experience again. I have only tested about 4 hours, but I used the console to unlock all map markers, and fast travelled NEAR to big cities or towns, then cross the cells manually, trying to replicate the crash. It seems fine now.



Papyrus reported no errors, but Net Framework pointed me to a merged armour plugin.

It seems to be - from what I can tell - I had a merged plugin of a lot of armour mods, however all the armours in the plugin were only craftable and not distributed. However one was distributed (Alik'r Knight Armor) to Alik'r warriors instead of the craftable version of the Alik'r Knight mod. Swapping from the distributed version to the craftable version has fixed things... but I suspect it was a reliable CTD as another mod (one that spawned additional NPCs) was spawning Alik'r arounf Rorikstead, and then something was conflicting and instantly CTDing.

Thanks for the initial support, gents. This community is a great one. Have a good evening.

[Ihateeverybody]

Another Avenue to explore. Coming from whiterun you will NORMALLY encounter Troll, Sabretooth, Goat, Fox, Wispmother and bear.

Mods that affect those creatures might also be the issue. I believe XPMSE Extended skeleton's alter most if not all of those.

[Retro]

Originally posted by Ihateeverybody:

Another Avenue to explore. Coming from whiterun you will NORMALLY encounter Troll, Sabretooth, Goat, Fox, Wispmother and bear.

Mods that affect those creatures might also be the issue. I believe XPMSE Extended skeleton's alter most if not all of those.

Thanks @Ihateeverybody, I don't have Xpmse active right now as FNIS doesn't play nicely with Combat Gameplay Overhaul. but I will walk from falkreath > Whiterun > Rorikstead today.

I suspected and read everywhere it coud be additional spawns or creature mods, and spent a whole day of testing looking for patches and fixes for them, but when I tried without all my spawn / creature mods installed it still CTDd.