Any viable reason to use two-handed weapons over one-handed? (WARNING LONG POST)

[Neonetik]

NOTE: Please read the post before answering. I hate sounding rude, but I specifically put a warning on my post so people who can't be bothered to read a bit don't click on it and waste everyone's time with unhelpful answers that run counter to everything I've said. Again, I really don't like sounding rude, but it's getting ridiculous. Thanks.

Hey everyone! I just started playing Skyrim, and my goal was to make a pure warrior class. Before playing games like these, I generally look up what sort of skills exist to plan out where I want to take my character with my limited skill points and stuff, and I originally wanted to make a character that rocked 2 handed warhammers as their main weapon.

However, after doing a bunch of research, it seems like the vast majority of people state that using a one handed weapon and a shield is a far better option than using two-handed weapons, which, in comparison, are not only slower, but also weaker in terms of Damage Per Second, don't work with enchantments as well, don't block as well as a shield, and are less versatile by restricting easy spell use. Even the special "Sweep" ability has been called not particularly useful, as Here are some of the arguments I found.



"1 handed and shield is better. This is because a 1 handed weapon is better than a 2 handed weapon, gameplay wise, when both are smithed to absolute perfection.

A one handed weapon deals exactly 10 damage less than its 2 handed counterpart, 30 if both skills are fully mastered. However, a one handed weapon attacks about 40-50% faster (3 sword hits = 2 greatsword hits and so on).

So, in the same timeframe, a base dragonbone sword will deal 135 damage and a greatsword will deal 150. Seems like the greatsword is better, right?

Now, for improved, enchanted weapons

A fully upgraded, maximized dragonbone sword will deal approximately 700 damage per hit with gear), add 256 chaos (which translates to an average of 192 damage per strike) and 101 lifeleech, totalling 993 damage. A similarly made greatsword will do 120 damage more for 1113 damage. In the same frame, now, a one handed sword is dealing 2979 damage in the same frame that the two handed sword deals 2226 damage. Even if the on handed weapon attacked only 15% faster, it will be doing better DPS. In fact, some one handed power attacks are at twice the speed of 2 handed ones, so in the same span of time, a 1 handed sword can do 3348 damage compared to 1932 damage from 2 handed.

This is because the enhancements to all the weapons are linear enhancements, so a weapon with faster attack speed gains more DPS per upgrade than one that is slower. As a one handed weapon already has higher DPS, and a shield blocks better than a 2 handed weapon, its prettty obvious that 1 hand + shield is better. So, when a one handed weapon and two handed weapon is imporoved to around + 10 base damage, their DPS is pretty similar and further improvements skew the DPS to 1 handed. This actually makes a 1 handed sword have the greatest improved DPS and the Warhammer the lowest (the dagger is not counted as it does not benefit from fortify 1 handed)

Sweep from 2 handed is highly overrated, as it only hits an area in front, so it will hit at most 3 enemies. As enemies don't tend to cluster, sweep becomes even less useful, especially as you will tend to miss if you are not used to it as the character continues moving sideways. In fact, the really important perks other than "barbarian" for a 2 hander are "great critical charge", which provides a fast animation power attack (in comparison to the foward power attack) and "savage strike" (or something like that), which augments your fastest power attack (standing) with more damage.

In fact, 2 handed has absolutely no advantage over a sword and shield style, in terms of pure gameplay perspective. 2 handed is in fact relavant only from an RP point of view. Also, the weight increase of a 2 handed weapon ridiculous. The only redeeming feature of a 2 handed weapon is that they look nice (I especially like the greatswords)"



"One handed plus shield is better, bacause you not only make use of all the block perks, but one handed, given enough crafting and smithing, will actually reach a point where it starts to out DPS a 2 handed weapon, as they seem to attack about 30-45% faster. Also, block with a shield is stronger and 1 handed is better with enchantments as it attacks faster and so can apply more enchantments in a set frame of time."



"The biggest frustration I've encountered with 2h weapons is that due to the fact that you can't cancel an attack mid-swing to block an incoming attack, 2h fighting becomes just a crazed attempt to burn the enemy down before they do the same to you. I get that they shouldn't be as defensive as a 1h/shield, but it almost seems like you have to go out of your way to block an attack by just sitting there waiting for the enemy to make a move (much akin to Oblivion's combat of two people sitting there with their shields up for an eternity, waiting to be the one that can get the counter attack) which in the end isn't a very enjoyable playstyle, and it only works if there's only one enemy left anyway. Sadly, the only other option is to just keep swinging and tanking hits head on, which doesn't bode well for your reservoir of health potions.

Ultimately, 2h combat comes down to getting a rhythm down for doing power attacks at just the right time that you keep an opponent staggered for as much of the fight as possible, but due to the slow animation speed and the fact that it's incredibly common for the AI to just back out of range of the attack, it can get really, REALLY frustrating fighting ranged attackers (especially frost mages). Combat vs melee is generally darting into range and taking a quick swing on an enemy inbetween their attacks if they have a 2h as well, and trying to time it so that your power attacks are mid-swing just as the enemy gets into range of you so that you can hit and stagger them, then back off and wait for stamina to regen and repeat. Elemental Fury shout and liberal (ab)use of minor stamina potions is almost mandatory for higher difficulties, especially dragons."



"While the One-handed skill can easily exceed this level of damage with dual-wielding, two-handed weapons retain the ability to block. However, the effect is diminished, and two-handed weapons prevent you from equipping a shield, thus preventing the use of certain Block perks that specifically use shields (e.g. Deflect Arrows, Elemental Protection)."



"Two Handers don't have perks designed around any principles. 1H and 2H share the exact same generic damage-buffing perks. There's no 2Hand exclusive perks that relate to stagger or anything else that would set a 2Hand apart.

The only difference between the weapons is a minor difference in weapon reach, which is entirely irrelevant in actual gameplay, and a single endgame AoE perk. So for that one pointless upside, 1Hands have a plethora of other upsides.

To put it as simply as humanly possible:
One Handed can do the same things.
One Handed can also do more things."



Inb4 people tell me to "just play how you enjoy it, it doesn't matter". To me it does. I can't justify using weapons if they are objectively inferior to others in practically every single way, and that thought never leaves my head. I also don't use mods, I wanna experience the game in its base form.

Thanks.

[:bestgamerchina#1最好的中國]

Addressing Your "one hand + shield is better than 2handed" it is, but its inferior to dual wield.
From pure efficiency standpoint. You want to use dual wield, not one hand + shield.
Dual Wield. perks gives your main one hand weapon +50/100%(dont remember) dmg and +30% attack speed. Wich makes it a difference between godmode and plebmode.
So no, one hand + shield is not most optimal build. Dual wield is. After all we want to murder everything as efficient and fast as possible. yes, yes?

[Win2000Fan]

I found out late in the game that two handed weapons are way to heavy and you need lots of stamina perks to make them useful. Now I am stuck at level 92 in two handed weapons with about ten perks I will never use. To fix that, I am going to use a two handed weapon till I legendary it to regain my perks to use them in much needed other places and never use two handed weapons again. My favorites? The dubble enchanted Dragon bow and one handed ax. With Dragon armor you do not need anything else. I take down brown bears in one shot, if I am sneaking.

[Isaac of the Wild]

THANK YOU! This is the sort of thing I've been looking for when it comes to a 1H vs 2H comparison. "Play it the way you like it, it doesn't matter" doesn't do it for me either, it matters to me too!

[theo]

Killing everyone with console is way more efficient

[alexander_dougherty]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Isaac of the Wild:

THANK YOU! This is the sort of thing I've been looking for when it comes to a 1H vs 2H comparison. "Play it the way you like it, it doesn't matter" doesn't do it for me either, it matters to me too!

Enough to necro a thread that's been dead for over three years....

[cyborg-murderbot.2013]

y'all be saying that there is no way to justify picking 2h over 1h due to 2h being slightly less efficient (still overkill)

but at the same time you're ready to willingly restrict yourselves to pure warriors despite the obvious superiority of the stealth archer

[xybolt]

(I am aware that this thread is from 2018)

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kabanych:

y'all be saying that there is no way to justify picking 2h over 1h due to 2h being slightly less efficient (still overkill)

but at the same time you're ready to willingly restrict yourselves to pure warriors despite the obvious superiority of the stealth archer

never tried that stealth archer thing. I understand the meme and why it is powerful, but it is not appealing for me.

My last playthrough was a vampire specialised in illusion and conjuring. I do have a 1h sword, but it is just for "show" and a fallback if I've mana troubles.

[cyborg-murderbot.2013]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von xybolt:

(I am aware that this thread is from 2018)

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kabanych:

y'all be saying that there is no way to justify picking 2h over 1h due to 2h being slightly less efficient (still overkill)

but at the same time you're ready to willingly restrict yourselves to pure warriors despite the obvious superiority of the stealth archer

never tried that stealth archer thing. I understand the meme and why it is powerful, but it is not appealing for me.

My last playthrough was a vampire specialised in illusion and conjuring. I do have a 1h sword, but it is just for "show" and a fallback if I've mana troubles.

that's a cool idea imo. being a vampire drastically boosts Illusion, making it more viable against high level enemies (if i understand it correctly), and conjuration is respectable too

from my point of view, the recipe for a good build being able to survive at the high difficulties (master/legendary) looks something like this:

Enchanting + One of the three combat skills (Archery/1h/2h) + Something to boost magic resistance in fights (Alchemy, or being a Breton + Alteration + Atronach stone + Block) and then you add cheesy cherries on top like magic or sneak or whatever that suits your view of your character. That's what i've come to through trial and error

[worm_master]

I got daggers that do 175 DAM neat, on 1 char.
Another set has 71 health drain an a few hundred chaos, dont do as much damage, but the enchantments make up for it.

If you want to hand, i suggest a sword, generally do's more dam then a hammer to begin with, and i think the speed difference carry's over to 2 handed, I.E A 2 handed sword swings faster then a 2 handed maul.

Games what you make it, I started a new game from scratch on Legendary, already lvl 22.

Most people would have trouble doing that, perhaps you'll find that 2 handed suits u, it's"your skill"...

Turns out daggers and sneaking are mine, able to scout an stab in broad daylight.

[WolfensRazor]

Different Kill move animations and also the Two handed weapons are on your back when holstered. Looks better IMO. They can also do more damage but at a certain point that doesn't matter. Big hammers do give the visual impression of crushing opponents to the ground.

[Mez Koo]

More damage, in normal difficulties it won't matter as much because as you said one handed is faster but in let's say legendary difficulty where you're more cautious and getting in fewer but more strategic hits there is a big difference in one handed and two handed damage.

One handed also probably requires building a bit into shield for staggering where the shear damage of focusing on 2 handed will easily stagger enemies.

But realistically it comes down to how you want to play, I found shield gameplay to be fun if you really get into it and actually play with the shield but at the same time its also a lot of fun to just charge at enemies with a two handed weapon so if you wanted to go into the game with a 2 handed barbarian mindset then go for it, the game is not difficult and combat isn't that deep to worry about pre-planing your character unless you're doing legendary mode.

Also nothing is stopping you from just switching over from one playstyle to the other after you've gotten bored of it.

[Dopey Shepard]

You aren't even taking into account the fact that there are strats to make your slashes with 1 handed weapon faster

When you do a standing power move, after it if you start mashing your mouse button, you can get 2 attacks in rapid succession

Try it, if you can nail it every single time, your DPS can grow substantially. Just make sure the attacks actually connect because there is a chance the first of the two will miss if you mash way too hard

2 handed weapons can be used if you want to sheathe them immediately after doing a power attack - its a strat to maximize your DPS and also give you breathing room by not locking you into the animation. Obviously this requires extra skill to pull of every single time but if you want to commit - go for it. I'd personally still stick to my shields, they are way too cool

[Martial Autist]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dopey Shepard:

You aren't even taking into account the fact that there are strats to make your slashes with 1 handed weapon faster

When you do a standing power move, after it if you start mashing your mouse button, you can get 2 attacks in rapid succession

Try it, if you can nail it every single time, your DPS can grow substantially. Just make sure the attacks actually connect because there is a chance the first of the two will miss if you mash way too hard

2 handed weapons can be used if you want to sheathe them immediately after doing a power attack - its a strat to maximize your DPS and also give you breathing room by not locking you into the animation. Obviously this requires extra skill to pull of every single time but if you want to commit - go for it. I'd personally still stick to my shields, they are way too cool

You can also start that combo off with a normal attack. If you click twice with like 0.2s in between, holding the lmb on the second one, you will cut out the wind-down from the normal swing and connect with your power attack almost instantly, then follow that up with the trick you mentioned to complete the combo.

[Dopey Shepard]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Martial Autist:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dopey Shepard:

You aren't even taking into account the fact that there are strats to make your slashes with 1 handed weapon faster

When you do a standing power move, after it if you start mashing your mouse button, you can get 2 attacks in rapid succession

Try it, if you can nail it every single time, your DPS can grow substantially. Just make sure the attacks actually connect because there is a chance the first of the two will miss if you mash way too hard

2 handed weapons can be used if you want to sheathe them immediately after doing a power attack - its a strat to maximize your DPS and also give you breathing room by not locking you into the animation. Obviously this requires extra skill to pull of every single time but if you want to commit - go for it. I'd personally still stick to my shields, they are way too cool

You can also start that combo off with a normal attack. If you click twice with like 0.2s in between, holding the lmb on the second one, you will cut out the wind-down from the normal swing and connect with your power attack almost instantly, then follow that up with the trick you mentioned to complete the combo.

Yeah, yeah, I know that one, I only mentioned one strat, there are I think even more strats of animation cancelling

One handed is just way too good

Although doing these strats with Big Maces especially Mace of Molag Bal is kinda clunky. You ever noticed how the double swing strat I mentioned first time actually doesn't usually work for the second swing with that weapon? It's definitely way off for slower swing weapons like Maces. Axes work better and more consistent. I always got annoyed how my double swing would not work, so I always switched back to some Skyforge Steel Sword or w/e

[SpeedFreak1972]

I use 2 handed only to level up really and then mostly greatswords the rest doesn't suit me