Allegations against jeremy soule

[President Donald Trump]

What do you guys think about this? Im not too caught up on the details but im just completely baffled by this news. I knew the guy couldn't have been an angel after the whole kickstarter fiasco but this... man.

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por fauxpas:

And I believe that as a civilization we are actively committing suicide by slitting Lady Justice's throat when we forget that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and I don't want my future children to have to live a world where evidence is completely irrevellant to the accusation; history has shown us what that looks like.

Accusations aren't criminal charges.
Soule's been accused, but not charged yet.
You're confusing the two.

No one here is discussing a criminal inestigation. We're discussing the validity of the accusations. You went full defense law BEFORE anything's even happened.
Shot your bullet early, as they say.

Without evidence the accusations have no validity.
When we get to lawcourt mode we will be examining the quality of any evidence, it's much more stringent then the examination we've been giving it so far.

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por Zsrai:

Publicado originalmente por Jojo:

I am not suggesting that she was or wasn't raped by him. There appears to be no concrete proof or evidence, neither circumstantial nor written. Only she (and I assume, he) knows for sure.

I just think the way she's brought it all up NOW - and on social media rather in a private court case - is tacky at best.

Why in the ♥♥♥♥ would her coming out with her story, at any point in time, be "tacky"?

What kind of written evidence are you looking for anyways, besides her written word? You want a written confession from him? You want to see texts of him bragging about it to his bros? What kind of ridiculous standards are you holding her to before you even consider that she may be telling the truth?

Any kind of evidence would be a step forward.

Emails, texts, letters, witnesses to how he behaved (not the actual assault though), proof he was were she says he was on those dates (proof he was present), other victims, etc.

So far we have no evidence what so ever.

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por Katya Kazanova:

Publicado originalmente por fauxpas:

Yeah, and if he's innocent what do you believe should happen to her?

Well jail time and a fine would be chill with me plus you know shed lose any future jobs too probably. False accusations are just as bad as actually doing something like that

Agreed.

I am fully behind life imprisonment for rapists, but I want life imprisonment for false accusations too (proven that the person couldn't have done it, not merely that they were found not guilty).

It's a terrible crime either way, and neither crime can be condone or accepted.

I like others am awaiting evidence one way or the other.

[Jo]

Publicado originalmente por tausoldier:

what I think people are trying to tell you is that her ulterior motive is emotional and trauma-driven, not a logical optimized strategy.
you are convinced it is an optimized strategy, and refuse to consider alternatives.

is this correct?

Sorry, is this directed at me or anyone else?

She could have sought counselling in a safe, private environment to come to terms with her feelings, pain etc. But she decided to bottle it up for years and then blast it on the internet for all to see. That's not the way I would personally deal with a situation such as this, but hey ho each to their own. I reached maturity years before the internet was even heard of so I guess I'm "old school" in such views. I tend to avoid social media...it breeds a degree of narcissism and associated insecurity which is kinda disturbing (imo).

And if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen, as they say.

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por tausoldier:

maybe the blog post was therapeutic.

<snip>

what I think people are trying to tell you is that her ulterior motive is emotional and trauma-driven, not a logical optimized strategy.

That post was not therapeutic, not by any definition.

And what most of us have been saying is we are waiting for evidence before we make our minds up. Until we see some sort of evidence, all we have is finger pointing.

[✠Deser✞🅵☣⚔⚔♏✠]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por Jojo:

I think it mostly means he didn't want to have his Twitter (or FB) feed littered with hate comments about his private/personal life when it is clearly intended for musical/professional discussion only.

He's not the one who publicly whines about how s-hitty they are feeling that day and how they can't cope with life.. which is something she seems to do regularly. Jeez have some self-respect and stop baring your soul to the whole world.

so you don't think erasing his twitter account means he's hiding something? just asking.

you do understand that she's writing about her raipe, right?
we don't know whether anything is true or false yet, the least we can do is take it at face value.
cut her some slack, jeez.

I think a smart lawyer would have told him to do it, to stop more degradation of his image. But personally as a guy if i got my manhole smashed by another guy i don't think i would be posting it on the internet for the planet to see and I wouldn't be doing it 11 years later.

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por Jojo:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

I mean, he's erased his twitter account. do u think that helps his innocence or his guilt?

I think it mostly means he didn't want to have his Twitter (or FB) feed littered with hate comments about his private/personal life when it is clearly intended for musical/professional discussion only.

I agree.

Deleting a Twitter Account merely means they don't want that account.
Given how Toxic social media gets at times, if I was accused of something I would delete it, because nothing useful is going to be sent to it.

Anyone who interprets this as a sign of guilt, is clearly incapable of thought, let alone rational thought

[Grumpy]

Publicado originalmente por Jojo:

Response to Grumpy's question "What's your evidence about that claim?" (when I said "she wanted to tarnish his reputation for personal reasons.")

Did you actually read the monologue in her webpage..I mean the entire length of it, right to the end? The whole thing is personal. Bear in mind I'm not disputing the matter of whether he raped her (or not). No one has the answer to that apart from the individuals involved. Not once have I taken either side in this thread, my focus was on the timing of her revelation (10 years later), and the manner in which she did it rather than through proper legal procedure (ie on social media, where she no doubt knew it would hit him hardest). She states:

"I’m sharing this hoping that there will be information about him out there so other women can be informed.
He took advantage of an eager naive new girl that want to “break in” by offering a lot of help, and acting like he will mentor me, and then forcing me into a position where I was taken advantage of by him. He is extremely manipulative and will blame you for what he does to you."

That looks pretty personal to me.

writing a personal blog post about an event and "writing it solely for the purpose to destroying ones reputation" are 2 pairs of shoes. not to mention that she puts her career and reputation on that line too. no matter how this goes, one reputation will be severe damaged at the end.

So thanks to pointing out that the whole blog post is a personal one, not many would have came to that conclusion yet none of that explains why you are completely sure that she did it for sole reason to tarnish his reputation and not for motives like stated in that blog and to possible draw out

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

... other victims ....

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

Publicado originalmente por Jojo:

Response to Grumpy's question "What's your evidence about that claim?" (when I said "she wanted to tarnish his reputation for personal reasons.")

Did you actually read the monologue in her webpage..I mean the entire length of it, right to the end? The whole thing is personal. Bear in mind I'm not disputing the matter of whether he raped her (or not). No one has the answer to that apart from the individuals involved. Not once have I taken either side in this thread, my focus was on the timing of her revelation (10 years later), and the manner in which she did it rather than through proper legal procedure (ie on social media, where she no doubt knew it would hit him hardest). She states:

"I’m sharing this hoping that there will be information about him out there so other women can be informed.
He took advantage of an eager naive new girl that want to “break in” by offering a lot of help, and acting like he will mentor me, and then forcing me into a position where I was taken advantage of by him. He is extremely manipulative and will blame you for what he does to you."

That looks pretty personal to me.

writing a personal blog post about an event and "writing it solely for the purpose to destroying ones reputation" are 2 pairs of shoes. not to mention that she puts her career and reputation on that line too. no matter how this goes, one reputation will be severe damaged at the end.

So thanks to pointing out that the whole blog post is a personal one, not many would have came to that conclusion :outlaw: yet none of that explains why you are completely sure that she did it for sole reason to tarnish his reputation and not for motives like stated in that blog and to possible draw out

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

... other victims ....

As I said, I waiting for evidence one way or the other.

I will evaluate any evidence provided by either/both parties, and draw my conclusions from that, rather than from people speculating what's gone on.

[Sabaithal]

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

writing a personal blog post about an event and "writing it solely for the purpose to destroying ones reputation" are 2 pairs of shoes. not to mention that she puts her career and reputation on that line too. no matter how this goes, one reputation will be severe damaged at the end.

So thanks to pointing out that the whole blog post is a personal one, not many would have came to that conclusion :outlaw: yet none of that explains why you are completely sure that she did it for sole reason to tarnish his reputation and not for motives like stated in that blog and to possible draw out

As I said, I waiting for evidence one way or the other.

I will evaluate any evidence provided by either/both parties, and draw my conclusions from that, rather than from people speculating what's gone on.

Just out of curiosity, if no definitive evidence is presented by either party involved...then what?

[Grumpy]

Publicado originalmente por fauxpas:

Grumps, Jojo's entire post puts things pretty well into context; if there were evidence to back the accuser's claim it's her responsibility to provide it, and so far she hasn't done so, hence its entirely reasonable to conclude that said evidence probably doesn't exist.


Now that we get that out of the way, the question does become why post a rape accusation in a blog where standards of evidence are nonexistent and in the current cultural climate people will automatically give her the benefit of every doubt? ... It hurts any criminal or civil case she may have against him, so it's either to get it off her chest in an attempt to move on or an attack against him (or both at the same time). ... Desert has suggested money, but that doesn't feel quite right to me.

none of this is even relevant in the slightest to my post:

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

Woman accuse someone of rape > WE NEED EVIDENCE!

people in here claiming the wildest stuff and getting called out on it > I am not listening lalalalalala



I know it's a shocker, but the burden of proof game applies to your claims too. Kinda funny how the people who call the loudest in here for evidence, claim random stuff based on assumptions with any supporting evidence

and the specific question to Jojo in that case, well atleast he/she got my intent of the question.

[Jo]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

So thanks to pointing out that the whole blog post is a personal one, not many would have came to that conclusion :outlaw: yet none of that explains why you are completely sure that she did it for sole reason to tarnish his reputation and not for motives like stated in that blog and to possible draw out

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

... other victims ....

Oh come on.. give me a break. OF COURSE the woman knew what she was doing would tarnish his reputation, whether the rape actually happened or not.

She is playing the victim card... very well it seems as it's pulling the wool over many people's eyes. If she WAS raped (and I'm not saying she wasn't, let's be clear on that point), I have every sympathy for her and my opinion of Soule would most definitely change. But at this stage nothing has been proven and she's old enough to know that publicly making serious claims about him in this way would have repercussions for all involved, not to mention start lynch campaigns against the guy.

And I shall reiterate what I said before... if you feel a crime has been perpetrated against you you GO TO THE POLICE. Simple. As much as people argue that victims are not emotionally capable of going through the process of a rape trial, unfortunately it's the only way and she should have gone that route. The legal system exists for a reason.

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por Sabaithal:

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

As I said, I waiting for evidence one way or the other.

I will evaluate any evidence provided by either/both parties, and draw my conclusions from that, rather than from people speculating what's gone on.

Just out of curiosity, if no definitive evidence is presented by either party involved...then what?

The person accusing has the burden that they have to prove their case.
If that does not happen, then the legal and moral presumption has to be the accused is innocent.

This can seem harsh to people who have been sexually assaulted (or worse), but it has to be this way, because otherwise you are asking the accused to provide evidence that something did not happen.... which is near impossible (unless you happen to have proof that you weren't even there at the time, like hotel receipts)

[alexander_dougherty]

Publicado originalmente por Jojo:

And I shall reiterate what I said before... if you feel a crime has been perpetrated against you you GO TO THE POLICE. Simple. As much as people argue that victims are not emotionally capable of going through the process of a rape trial, unfortunately it's the only way and she should have gone that route. The legal system exists for a reason.

Agreed.

This is one of the reasons I feel people guilty of such a crime should get the harshest penalties allowed (or more).
I also feel for the sake of legal and ethical balance, people guilty of falsely accusing others of sexual crimes should also get the harshest penalties.

[Sabaithal]

Publicado originalmente por alexander_dougherty:

I also feel for the sake of legal and ethical balance, people guilty of falsely accusing others of sexual crimes should also get the harshest penalties.

Aren't lawyer fees specifically there to deter that kind of behavior? I mean, most people (being poor) can't afford lawyers for court(even if they need them).