Necron Late Game!

[Novatech]

Seems to be the strongest in Gladius, I have a friend who only plays Necrons and if you don't kill him early the end game tessaract spam is unstoppable. I feel like some factions like TAU don't even stand a chance end game. Like how are you supposed to win? The eldar Scorpions seem like a counter but by the time I have 2 I'm facing down 8-12 tesseracts and the production is insane as well.

[Stardustfire]

somehow dont sounds like standard speed options or standard resource options. 12 Tesseracts Vaults need ALOT of ore to maintain. with normal options i can max hold around (with other units too of course) 4 afloat if i dont want my complete eco to downspiral to death.

[Whatever100500]

You should have 1 Scorpion per 1 Vault, not 1 per 4 or 6. They cost the same. With that economy ratio, you've lost the game long before Tesseract spam even happened.
Also, faster game settings distort balance towards high level unit spam.

[Corseth]

It sounds like he is building a much stronger economy than you are. How many cities / how much population did he have and how much did you have? Or if you have it, the after-game resource details are probably even better to check.

If your friend has way more resources than you, then you're not keeping up with economy. He might be getting his cities a lot earlier than you are.

If you've got the same but he has a way better, higher-tech military than you, you're wasting resources on something that isn't helping you (this can happen if you make too MANY cities, or if you're overproducing on a resource you don't need)

[slugmyballs]

your game settings must be pretty interesting... 12 tesseract vaults is bloody insane, on standard settings that would take well over 100 turns, closer to 150, even if you were neglecting everything but econ and research without being killed for having no army.

[Novatech]

Originally posted by benster:

your game settings must be pretty interesting... 12 tesseract vaults is bloody insane, on standard settings that would take well over 100 turns, closer to 150, even if you were neglecting everything but econ and research without being killed for having no army.

I think we were on turn 170ish. We play big 5 man FFA's with a couple pc's in there to spice it up. Normal setting as far as I know.

[Corseth]

If you only have two scorpions by turn 170'sh, the problem is definitely your economy.

You say it was a 5 man FFA? Is there any chance your buddy was left completely alone to expand and pump fully into economy while the other 4 of you destroyed each others' armies and cities?

[Novatech]

Originally posted by Corseth:

If you only have two scorpions by turn 170'sh, the problem is definitely your economy.

You say it was a 5 man FFA? Is there any chance your buddy was left completely alone to expand and pump fully into economy while the other 4 of you destroyed each others' armies and cities?

All of these things are true. My econ was trash and he did get mostly left alone for 100 turns. But I still feel like Necron late game units are superior to like orks or tau etc.

[Corseth]

Orks yes, Tau no.

Tau Stormsurge does a bit less damage than a vault neutrally, more damage than a Vault if it pops Hammer or is isn't moving, is easier to faction buff (on a faction with better heroes than Necrons), and has around the same HP per cost when you factor the invulnerability reduction in, plus is MUCH faster and more mobile, for half the cost. The Stormsurge is very good and definitely better than the Vault (as is the Eldar Cobra). And just Tau having Drones in general; on-demand chaff that slows enemy units is just so good and part of why they're one of the best factions right now.

Tesseract Vaults are one of the more "meh" late game units. They're not as bad as the Baneblade, but they're really just not that good; Doomscythes are traditionally seen as a better option, but Vaults pop up because they're a way to 'save' a C'tan that would have died anyway, if you also have an Obelisk nearby, and you're hitting so late in the game you might as well do the research. Also Obelisks and Vaults are move 2 range 2. Move 2 REALLY sucks and combined with range 2 makes them easy to avoid taking Overwatch fire from. If your opponent has a mob of Move 2, range 2 units you don't think you can handle, you can literally just avoid them and go kill their cities faster than they can kill yours simply because of the travel time difference, and you have a way easier time tossing a new city down wherever to keep in the game if it comes to that, than they do (since you can control the tombs). If you're anyone but Eldar anyway since Eldar can never afford to trade cities unless it's the winning move; but Eldar late game if they get there with a good economy is going to just steamroll almost any faction (Eldar challenge is GETTING there with good economy).

Vaults also have no "free use" ability to clear out cheap chaff and thus are limited to killing 1 unit per turn maximum, so if you're Tau, you drop drones in their face and then just go do whatever you want.

Orks aren't in the best place overall right now, but they do have one thing going for their late game, and that is Da Jump on Weridboyz being such an insane ability for taking out cities. Still, Ork late game troubles are more a problem for Orks being a weaker overall faction, than Necrons being OP.

If you lost a game outresourced 6 to 1, how do you feel that should have gone? Should your 2 Cobras have wrecked 12 Vaults? How would that make for balance? ANY faction, even the worst one, if left alone and allowed to roll in with SIX TIMES the resources in late game units, is going to win.

[Novatech]

Fair points. I'll work on early game econ.

[Corseth]

Originally posted by Novatech:

Fair points. I'll work on early game econ.

Honestly it's probably just a factor of playing a big FFA! So it's hard to say it's even anything you did was wrong. If you were left alone and only got 2 scorpions by turn 170 that's a problem with your build, but if you're in a desperate fight against three other players that's a whole other story as to what your economy 'should' look like, because your economy probably looks like what the other players allow it to look like.

In other words, it's always good to improve your game, but this experience is more than likely just a result of the 'luck' of a 5-way FFA than anything playing well or poorly, too!