Space Marine Scouts + Bolter Drill

[Reughor]

Why doesn't Bolter Drill affect the Scout's Sniper Rifle? They benefit from the Kraken Bolts research and the Sniper Rifle is technically a bolt weapon.

[Noodlesocks]

It's not a bolter. You wouldn't run bolter drills on something that isn't a bolter.

[Stardustfire]

not sure where you get that sniper rifles are Bolt Weapons, because: they are not: less S, less AP, and not one state or special in the TT rules says they use Bolter ammo, not to mentation a Anti Material Rifle woud look small against a monstrum rifle with a big enove barrel to squice a Bolt through.
Bolters are technical only the, well, Bolters, what means the standard Assault rifle, not Bolt Pistols, not Heavy Bolters (where we not even have infanterie in Gladius that use the later) . why shoud a Move or Shoot Weapon (thats what Sniper Rifles are) profit with extra dmg from the fact it hasnt moved before the shot when it ONLY can reasonable shot when it hasnt moved (i ignore the rule now from the newer Rulesets where Heavy Weapons can still shot and hit on the diceroll of 6) ?

[Reughor]

Like I said, the Sniper Rifles benefit from Kraken Bolts which means they are bolt weapons.

Also, the Games Workshop website lists Space Marine Eliminators as "Each model in this squad can be armed either with a las fusil, which is perfect for taking out the toughest targets, or a bolt sniper rifle, which provides a choice of ammunition to suit any situation." Scouts can't equip Sniper Rifles on the tabletop game, but they can in Gladius.

[Etrusco]

Originally posted by Reughor:

Like I said, the Sniper Rifles benefit from Kraken Bolts which means they are bolt weapons.

Bolt weapon ≠ Bolter, bolter drill is for bolters.

[Cursed Hawkins]

Originally posted by Etrusco:

Originally posted by Reughor:

Like I said, the Sniper Rifles benefit from Kraken Bolts which means they are bolt weapons.

Bolt weapon ≠ Bolter, bolter drill is for bolters.

Just so clear up some confusion both on OP's perspective the Kraken Bolts working for the Scout's sniper rifles is likely an oversight by Slytherin's behalf as there's NO pattern of the Scout's sniper rifle (officially documented by the fandom anyway) that supports Kraken Bolts and the sniper rifles seen in-game by the Scouts are the Astartes M40/A1 Pattern Sniper Rifle a Sniper pattern that's been used for the Scouts multiple times in video games and by extension the Tabletop as well.
https://www.google.com/search?q=warhammer+40k+scout+sniper+mini&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwii-Nm7r-b6AhUwEFkFHfg_CjcQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=969&dpr=1#imgrc=VQH8b6SXLOUgHM

[Stardustfire]

Bolt (Action) Rifle = named after the lock type, exist in the real wrold
Bolter = Uses a Projetcil propeled by Rocket basics, so its named after the Ammo Type, not the Lock Type....

[Reughor]

Bolter Drill says "Chapter tactic that increases the accuracy of bolt weapons", so that's not JUST bolters. And since the sniper rifle can use kraken bolts, it's clearly a bolt weapon and should be affected.

I'm leaning towards this being an oversight as Cursed Hawkins said. Would be nice to get clarification from a Dev tho!

[Stardustfire]

TT Scouts dont use sniper rifle? my 10 modell Scout Sniper Unit wont agree with this wrong statement....
and no Reughor Bolter Weapons (not Bolt Weapons) are ONLY weapons using BOLTER AMMO. i think i play my SM Chapter long enove in TT (since SE) to know the rules....
And Sniper Rifles EVER used total different rules than any existing Bolter Weapon (hell my Tacticals woud kill for a rule that they ignore Armor on a 6 Dice role like Sniper Rifles do)

[TokoSlayer]

Okay, disregarding TT because that's completely irrelevant here, I think OP has a point. In Gladius, if the scout sniper rifle benefits from the kraken bolts research upgrade, that means it is a bolt weapon. Not bolt as in "bolt action," it means like a 40k bolter bolt. And if the description for the bolter drills states that it affects all bolt weapons, not just basic bolters, then it should affect the scout snipers. This could be an oversight, as was stated above. If so, then Slytherin should address the inconsistency one of two ways in the next patch; either take away the kraken bolt affect or allow the snipers to benefit from bolter drills. Simple as.

[Stardustfire]

that woud be a hell of a rework, because not even all bolter weapon use it in gladius (little hint, look what the captain uses to shoot and im not so sure the Termis use that rule as well, and surprise, they both use real Bolter Ammo Weapons....)

[Reughor]

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

TT Scouts dont use sniper rifle? my 10 modell Scout Sniper Unit wont agree with this wrong statement....
and no Reughor Bolter Weapons (not Bolt Weapons) are ONLY weapons using BOLTER AMMO.

I was going by the info on the GW website under the scouts listing, I didn't see there was an additional scouts listing with sniper rifles, my fault. TT rules aside tho, I actually quoted the tactic verbatim in my post right before yours..it says it affects bolt weapons...which means guns that shoot Kraken bolts, such as the in game sniper rifle.

Originally posted by TokoSlayer:

Okay, disregarding TT because that's completely irrelevant here, I think OP has a point. In Gladius, if the scout sniper rifle benefits from the kraken bolts research upgrade, that means it is a bolt weapon. Not bolt as in "bolt action," it means like a 40k bolter bolt. And if the description for the bolter drills states that it affects all bolt weapons, not just basic bolters, then it should affect the scout snipers. This could be an oversight, as was stated above. If so, then Slytherin should address the inconsistency one of two ways in the next patch; either take away the kraken bolt affect or allow the snipers to benefit from bolter drills. Simple as.

Indeed. The sniper rifle should either A) benefit from Bolter Drill according to it's description, or B) should not benefit from Kraken Bolts. That's what I'm hoping the devs answer for us, because it definitely isn't working as intended according to how it's written.

[Etrusco]

Originally posted by TokoSlayer:

And if the description for the bolter drills states that it affects all bolt weapons, not just basic bolters, then it should affect the scout snipers. This could be an oversight, as was stated above.

Since we are having a conundrum over a technicality let's get overly specific, the text for Bolter Drill does not state it affects all bolt weapons, it just says it affects bolt weapons and it does not specify what kind on the description, the only point of reference is stated on the name of the ability "Bolter Drill" AKA for Bolters. In fact Bolter Drill affects all Bolter weapons, Kraken Bolt affects Bolt weapons/ballistic weapons but like I said before Bolt weapon ≠ Bolter.

Bolter Drill does not affect shotguns either, but it does affect assault cannons. If I had to get pedantic about the text I would say Scout Bikers (shotguns), and StormTalon/StormRaven (twin-linked auto cannons) should not be affected by Kraken Bolts and the Auto Cannons should not benefit from Bolter Drilll BUT that's quite a nerf because of a technicality for a faction that does not need any nerfs.

EDIT: actually I do not know if WH40K shotguns can use rocket ammo same goes for the Auto Cannons, so perhaps I'm wrong there and Kraken Bolt fits for both weapons.

[Stardustfire]

nope shotguns and Auto Cannons are indeed not Bolter loaded in TT. same for Assault Cannon.

Bolt Weapons in TT:
Obvious Bolters (the Gun Version)
Bolt Pistols
Stormbolter
Heavy Bolter
Several Versions of Synced Bolters (what are technical only 2 or more Vehicle Mounted Bolters, mostly Vehicle mounted, mass Depends on Vehicle, SM Bikes have a duo, Crusader Land Raider 2 Packs of 8 (or was it 12? never owned one of this, Dark Angels cant have them and they are not appealing to me on Top) named Hurrican Bolter as side Mounted Weapons instead of Synced Lasercannons)

[Cursed Hawkins]

Originally posted by TokoSlayer:

This could be an oversight, as was stated above. If so, then Slytherin should address the inconsistency one of two ways in the next patch; either take away the kraken bolt affect or allow the snipers to benefit from bolter drills. Simple as.

The only simple thing to do would be to change the sniper rifle from the pattern it is to a Stalker Bolter, except why do that when you might as well turn the entire squad into another Space Marine squad WITH a Stalker Bolter, why change one weapon because of a single stat in that scenario when the other option is a more difficult one by going into the code itself to remove the stat without accidentally removing it from everything else.

[Cursed Hawkins]

Originally posted by Reughor:

Indeed. The sniper rifle should either A) benefit from Bolter Drill according to it's description, or B) should not benefit from Kraken Bolts. That's what I'm hoping the devs answer for us, because it definitely isn't working as intended according to how it's written.

Except the sniper doesn't even use Bolts as ammo, it uses DARTS, as the pattern commonly used doesn't have the design to support such ammo.
"Astartes M40/A1 Pattern Sniper Rifle - The Codex Astartes states that a Space Marine must be schooled in every aspect of war, and this includes the use of weapon he may not necessarily go on to use as a fully-fledged Space Marine. The Sniper Rifle is such a weapon, and its use fits the tactical role of the Scout. The rifle fires a small dart made from a deadly neuro-toxin chemical. The liquid chemical is frozen into a dart or sliver within the gun before it is fired. Unerring accuracy is afforded by a low power beam of invisible laser-light which drives and guides the chemical dart to its target. If the target is armoured, the beam automatically pulses when the rifle is fired, punching a tiny hole which allows the toxic dart to penetrate."

Not even the Deathwatch has a pattern of a sniper rifle that supports Kraken Bolts.
"Those Space Marines that are seconded to the Deathwatch, the Chamber Militant of the Inquisition's Ordo Xenos, often make use of a highly specialised Sniper Rifle pattern known as the Mark IX Ultra Pattern sniper rifle. Just over 2 metres in length and weighing close to 50 kilograms, the massive Mark IX Ultra is as intimidating as it is effective.

The Mark IX is a heavy needler sniper rifle used by the Deathwatch for long-range anti-personnel and anti-materiel work. With its long barrel and powerful scope, the Mark IX allows a Deathwatch sharpshooter to engage targets with incredible accuracy at very long ranges.

The Mark IX is a highly-respected and revered weapon, and it is often selected as the weapon of choice for Space Marine snipers in many Deathwatch Kill-teams. Each Mark IX has the following integral systems:

Tailor Made - Each Mark IX is tailored to fit the Battle-Brother to which it has been assigned. The weapon’s stock and hand guard are matched to the owner’s size and shooting stance, making carrying, pointing, and shooting the Sniper Rifle as easy and natural as pointing a finger. While this increases the Sniper Rifle’s accuracy, the custom furniture makes it uncomfortable and nearly impossible for anyone else to use it without serious modification. The Mark IX is also fitted with a special security system programmed with the owner’s genetic code. This system, composed of a sensor pad in the weapon's stock, makes contact with a matching pad in the palm of the glove or gauntlet worn on the Space Marine’s shooting hand. The Space Marine’s genetic data is then transferred to the weapon’s Cogitator and analysed. If the Cogitator array senses the genetic pattern of the proper owner, the Sniper Rifle operates as normal. If anyone else attempts to use the weapon, the Cogitator will disable the firing mechanism. This renders the Sniper Rifle unusable until the assigned owner picks it up again.

30x Scope - This powerful telescopic sight allows the sharpshooter to engage enemies at extremely long range. Telescopic sights magnify the target’s image, making it easy to see. This is especially useful for long-range shots that need to hit a very specific target location.

Suppressor - This combination silencer and flash concealer reduces both muzzle flash and the signature report of a needle weapon.

Highly Accurate - With its long barrel, integral recoil compensators, and under-barrel bipod, the Mark IX is an incredibly accurate and well-balanced weapon. Its turbo-chem needle ammunition is highly accurate and utterly deadly to its victim."